Which do you think is the worst steel ever?

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dirc said:
honestly, when you consider 14c28n is so much better than n690 or 8cr13mov, both in terms of similar low raw costs & the overhead for grinding / belt use / stamping / blanking is all similar...

I've used good examples of each, in terms of heat treatment etc, and for my $, I'd always prefer 14c28n... better edge retention, toughness, and just plain better imho

I don't really understand why more companies have not switched to 14c28n over n690/8cr13mov etc
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In my experience, N690 is a decent steel and definitely better than 8Cr13Mov. Given a choice and assuming it makes sense in other ways, I'd almost always choose 14C28N in a budget knife. Even in customs, 14C28N can be a great choice for large fixed blades.

If every knife running a non-PM steel was running 14C28N, I'd own a lot more knives! 😮
 
Not sure exactly what kind d it is, but it's usually stamped "surgical" on one side, and "china" onthe other, (if at all).
 
I've owned hundreds of knives over the years, and only twice has a blade completely broken in half. Both of them were 440c. One of those happened during the arduous task of cutting plastic wrap . . . Two thirds of the blade just kinda fell off in the middle of a cut. Im sure there were other factors involved, but it just soured me on 440c.
 
dirc said:
honestly, when you consider 14c28n is so much better than n690 or 8cr13mov, both in terms of similar low raw costs & the overhead for grinding / belt use / stamping / blanking is all similar...

I've used good examples of each, in terms of heat treatment etc, and for my $, I'd always prefer 14c28n... better edge retention, toughness, and just plain better imho

I don't really understand why more companies have not switched to 14c28n over n690/8cr13mov etc
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Even though I stated that my knife with 8cr13mov is a good knife, I don't doubt, based on what I've read in this forum and elsewhere, that it's also my knife with the most inferior steel, as I only have two knives made in China (both with 8cr13mov). I just haven't put it to enough use to have any complaints.
 
I've no problem with 8cr13mov as long as the HT is decent. Love 14c28n and also have a Joker knife in n690 which has proven to be an excellent steel, I suspect Joker know what they are doing with the steels they use.

The Joker Knife holds an excellent edge lasts a good amount of time and I can strop back to shaving sharp on my jeans which imo is impressive. Why I like many of the "simpler" stainless steels over the newer "super" steels.
 
3cr13 and 4034 were not very good when i used them, the 3cr (Kershaw diskin folder) dulled pretty quick, the edge seemed to roll easily, and a Cold Steel Kiridashi 4034 wasnt bad at first,but once it dulled it never seemed to resharpen as good and would dull out quickly.
 
runscott said:
Even though I stated that my knife with 8cr13mov is a good knife, I don't doubt, based on what I've read in this forum and elsewhere, that it's also my knife with the most inferior steel, as I only have two knives made in China (both with 8cr13mov). I just haven't put it to enough use to have any complaints.
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I carried 8Cr13Mov almost exclusively for a few years. Especially with light use, it isn't the end of the world. As a famous reviewer used to say, 8Cr13Mov is barely adequate or barely inadequate depending on your needs. That lines up with some of the discussion here. Personally, I'm all set on it. The only time I might carry it now is in a couple of the novel fixed blades from Outdoor Edge but that's rare, situational, and doesn't involve much use.

At least for me, 9Cr18Mov and 10Cr15CoMov are squarely adequate or actually decent. I'm not sure about their 10Cr but WE has figured out a surprisingly good heat treatment for 9Cr18Mov in the Civivi, Sencut, and Ferrum Forge knives. I have no qualms about folders from those brands.
 
Chronovore said:
Maybe it can be hardened out to 60-61HRC but do any companies actually do that?

I haven't seen much of it tested for hardness but what I have seen tested, including from Spyderco, has mostly been in the 56-58 range.

I've actually used a lot of 8Cr13Mov over the years. It's a funny steel. It's easy to get "screaming sharp" but that tends to be short-lived. It quickly falls to a ho-hum working edge. Sure, that working edge can sometimes hang on versus 14C28N or VG-10 but I get more quality over the life of the edge with those steels.
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Spyderco does. I've used so much 8cr over the years to come to the conclusion it's a perfectly fine steel for a budget knife.
 
What the worst knife steel is, I couldn't say. After decades of knife ownership and use, I have come to the conclusion that I have developed into somewhat of a knife steel snob. I simply don't have time for knife blades made of AUS8 or anything similar.
 
F1fan said:
Production knife company M390/20CV/204P.
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In terms of real-life performance versus chart ratings, this is often the case and it isn't just limited to this family of super steels. However, the real-life performance still tends to be significantly better than most of the "worst steel" nominations here including 8Cr13Mov.

A good illustration of this can be seen in some of Outpost 76's tests where, sharpened with the KME same progression at 15dps and tested on repeat edges, budget steels with good heat treatments such as WE's 9Cr18Mov start overlapping the performance of super steels with mediocre heat treatments.

Out of curiosity, has anyone done or seen performance testing that directly compares the Tenacious in 8Cr13Mov versus S35VN? While Spyderco's American stuff tends to get a very good production heat treatment, I imagine that their Chinese-made stuff is par for the course among Chinese manufacturers.
 
Chronovore said:
has anyone done or seen performance testing that directly compares the Tenacious in 8Cr13Mov versus S35VN?
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I wouldn't say I did testing, per se, but I carried and used over half a dozen 8Cr13MoV Resiliences (big brother of the Tenacious, for those who may not already know) that I had done various mods to over a few years and once I got my first in S35VN, the difference in edge retention was night and day, and yet the S35VN is not at all terrible to sharpen. I have not looked back since. That being said I do have one 8Cr Resilience loaned out which is coming back to me in the next little while, and I will keep and use it for some of the jobs in the shop.
 
BTW, for anyone who is sticking up for 8Cr13Mov here, I've got a challenge for you. Make it your exclusive carry for a month or two, or however long it takes to need sharpening a few times. Stropping in between is fine. Just use it like you normally would. Then do the same with a budget knife in 9Cr18Mov, 10Cr15CoMov, VG-10, N690, 154CM, or 14C28N. Maybe take some notes along the way. (Maybe do it in reverse order?)

If possible, add these two conditions: (1) try sharpening each to a similar angle at the start and (2) try starting each period with a knife that has already been sharpened a few times so that you aren't dealing with factory edge issues.
 
Ever? realistically it was most likely the first steel ever made.
 
calm said:
Ever? realistically it was most likely the first steel ever made.
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Very true!

This is a total tangent, but your comment made me think of the first stainless steel ever made... 420! Not 420HC, just regular 420.

I figure maybe somebody here would be interested to read a bit of knife history.

It was made originally in an effort to make rust-proof gun barrels. They found that it sucked for gun barrels, but was a great (relatively speaking) cutlery steel. So the very first stainless steel products on the market were knives! In fact, the original patent for the alloy titled it as a cutlery steel.

So all stainless alloys in existence, that are used in countless industries and applications, can all trace their origins back to a knife steel!! 😁

792E8E45-8E1F-4858-A02E-6A6566109AAC.png03E146A6-8C06-41C3-97AD-F71ABB55F526.png09FB5A5A-F8CD-449C-9816-146ECEA3E3FF.png96597E6C-2050-48D2-B724-8387EBB54B08.png
 
Enzo’s Woodshop said:
Very true!

This is a total tangent, but your comment made me think of the first stainless steel ever made... 420! Not 420HC, just regular 420.

I figure maybe somebody here would be interested to read a bit of knife history.

It was made originally in an effort to make rust-proof gun barrels. They found that it sucked for gun barrels, but was a great (relatively speaking) cutlery steel. So the very first stainless steel products on the market were knives! In fact, the original patent for the alloy titled it as a cutlery steel.

So all stainless alloys in existence, that are used in countless industries and applications, can all trace their origins back to a knife steel!! 😁

View attachment 2131691View attachment 2131692View attachment 2131693View attachment 2131694
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... and to think, they're still using that steel on some knives today. 😮
 
Chronovore said:
In terms of real-life performance versus chart ratings, this is often the case and it isn't just limited to this family of super steels. However, the real-life performance still tends to be significantly better than most of the "worst steel" nominations here including 8Cr13Mov.

A good illustration of this can be seen in some of Outpost 76's tests where, sharpened with the KME same progression at 15dps and tested on repeat edges, budget steels with good heat treatments such as WE's 9Cr18Mov start overlapping the performance of super steels with mediocre heat treatments.

Out of curiosity, has anyone done or seen performance testing that directly compares the Tenacious in 8Cr13Mov versus S35VN? While Spyderco's American stuff tends to get a very good production heat treatment, I imagine that their Chinese-made stuff is par for the course among Chinese manufacturers.
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I just don’t like the up charge for a “top tier steel” that often comes with a lack luster heat treat.
 
I compared a CTS BD1 blade and a CPM S110V blade during some garage cleanup years ago. Both held their edge about the same. I stopped chasing steels shortly after that.

If you want to make your knife perform, first optimize sharpening. Grit finish, edge angle, deburring, not over heating, & gaging initial sharpness all matter more than steel type.
 
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