Which grinder?

Chiro75

Chiro75

Joined
Feb 4, 1999
Messages
5,786
With Father's Day coming around, I have been doing some looking around at belt grinders (not that I am a father, but there are always good tool deals this time of year!), and wanted some input. I have read the past threads about grinders, too.
Anyway, the choices seem to be a 1" x 34" (maybe...my memory is fuzzy) by Delta that retails for about $75 and has a 1/4 HP motor. Then there are a couple Craftsman models. One is a 2" belt and the other a 1". The 2" belt is nicer and probably more powerful, but retails for around $200. The 1" belt has an HP that I forgot, but it also gives access to one of the contact wheels, which I don't think the 2" belter does. Anyway, can I get away with something as low HP as one of these, or would I be wasting my money on anything below the 1/2 HP (although it seems most people feel that is too weak, too). Any input is appreciated, especially if there are other choices I am not considering. Thanks!

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http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/1298/knifehome.html
 
The rule of thumb is that bigger is better.

Probably more to the point it is best to wait until you can afford one of the proper machines like Bee, Wilton etc or you will regret it in the future when you have to upgrade and wonder why you wasted the money last time on a less than ideal machine.

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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com

 
I just bought the Craftsman 2x42" belt grinder. It does have a Disc sander also. Seems to work well but I'm just starting my first knife on it.
I couldn't wait until I saved enough money for a Bader or Wilton. Also since I'm just getting started in Knifemaking I didn't want to drop $1200 on a fancy grinder before I figured out if I could really do this.I wasn't getting anywhere with just a bench grinder though and at least now I'm making some progress.
The craftsman won't hollow grind anything because you can't grind over the wheel but for flat grinding and slack belt grinding it seems to work Okay.
 
I have to agree with George on this one.

You would be better off waiting and saving for a good one. I bought two small, cheap type grinders early on, and they were pretty much a waste of money. I don't even use them any more. If you want to see if you are really cut-out for knifemaking, it is better to make knifes with files and sand paper while you save for a good grinder. There is much to be learned doing it the hard way, and by skipping this you miss out on a lot of basic shop/machining skills that will be necessary even after you get a grinder.

Also, when you do get a real grinder, make sure it is variable speed. It will make all the difference in the world. I have a Bee (Canadian made), and although the flat platen had to be reworked after I got it, the rest of the machine is top-notch. Also, the price for a Bee variable speed was much lower than what other brands(Bader, Wilton, etc.) cost.

[This message has been edited by fenixforge (edited 14 June 1999).]
 
What about the Kalamazoo grinder? Is it worth it to buy one early. I'm in the same boat as Chiro, only I've completed my first knife using hand tools and am halfway done with my second knife. I'd really like to increase production some, but it'll be a couple years before I can afford one of the big ones.

Spencer
 
My small shop is centered around a Craftsman 1Hp 2"x42" Belt Sander with an 8" Disc. It's certainly no Bader or Burr King (some day...) but it has far exceeded my expectations. I have ground several dozen knives on it and countless handles, with only one failure due to the switch getting clogged by metal dust (a 30-minute fix, 5-minute now that I know the problem). The belt is short an wears out fast, but 1Hp is certainly not foolin' around (especially for under $200) but it offers the same working width as a 2"x72". No hollow-grinding is a definite disadvantage, but it will flat-grind well enough and slack-belts quite nicely. Also, it can accept 1"x42" belts for detail work, or just because they're cheap and readily available.

I'm not arguing that this machine will compete with the 2"x72" beasties, but if I were saving for one of those I would never have gotten into knifemaking to begin with. Furthermore, this machine will still be darn useful for sharpening or handle work if I ever do get a Burr King in my shop.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Chiro,
One thing I do if I'm trying to cut small radius contours is run the belt off to the side of the platen just a bit using the belt adjuster, and use the edge to do the cutting. I've got the edges of the platen radiused, so there are no sharp edges to dig through the belt and into the metal or wood, and cut the belt. Or you can do the same thing on the slack belt area using the edge of the belt. It takes some practice, but you can freehand some pretty tight curves that way.

Also, for getting handle materials down to the final contours and smoothing them out, what I found works well is a 200 grit Norton thin back belt. Its very light and flexible, and you can work right around the edges of the belt in the slack belt are above the platen, or remove the platen entirely.

One thing I found out that works well for rough shaping wood handle slabs is using the 1" platen and a 1 x 42" belt in about 36 grit. It hogs the wood away and won't plug up and start burning things like the finer grits. Then I switch to an 80 grit, then the 200 for cleanup.

No, the Sears 2 x 42 isn't a commercial sander, but if you take care of it, its got more than enough power to do profiling and flat grinding metal, and works pretty decent for shaping handle materials too. The 8" disc has enough power to taper knife tangs or flatten handle materials. I abused mine pretty badly, and ended up replacing the motor, but after three years the only other thing that needs work is to finally replace the aluminum drive wheel for the sanding belt.

madpoet
 
Another option for handle shaping is a decent set of files. I use a round, a half-round, a flat, and a set of 5-6 Nicholson needle files. Clean up with whatever grit you want.

Spencer
 
Mr. Sorg covered it pretty well - just run some belt off one edge of the platen. With pressure it will roll over the platen's edge a bit, giving a rounded sanding surface, or alternatively you can actually do some surprisingly delicate cutting if you keep the edge stiff (new belt and less pressure)... though it cuts your hand just as well as steel
frown.gif


In tight contours, I usually find it necessary to get in there with a dremel tool to get a nice, smooth curve, but the belt can do most of the cutting and save you the $ and hassle of using many of those nasty dremel sanding drums.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Well guys, for cristmas I got a Grizzley import belt grinder. It was about $300 if I remember right. And I actually like it alot. There were a few kinks that need to be worked out, but other than that it is one heck of a deal.

It has a 1 hp motor, with an extra "spinning arm"(Sorry, don't know the technical term fo r this) that I've been hooking up buffing wheels and cut off wheels to with no problems. It also uses 2x72 belts, so they are no problem to find.

Sincerely,
Adam

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Self improvement is a hobby of mine :).

 
Another way to make finger groves is to use a drum sander chucked in the drill press, and run the drill press at a fairly high speed. I cut about 4in off a 2 by 4 and clamp it in a vice, and place the 2 by 4 even with the bottom of the sanding drum. The 2 by 4 placed like this gives me a base to place the knife on while I am working on the finger groves. I also roll the belt off the side of the platen sometimes to make finger grooves also.
Chris, Top of Texas Knives
www.toptexknives.com

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Just a heads-up on that drill-and-drum technique. It's my understanding that drill-presses do not have the same sort of bearings that mills do to support the shaft against lateral pressure. While they are suitable for light tasks that involve such pressure, harder work over long periods of time will cause considerable "chatter" and deterioration of the accuracy of the press. The technique described is fine for a now-and-then, but isn't suitable to light production / heavy hobby work. I know! - My drill-press is in sorry shape right now
frown.gif


If you plan to do a lot of work, it might make sense to invest in an oscillating drum sander or get handy with a Dremel tool. I've even seen some makers set up a belt-sander sideways with small contact wheels to act like a superb drum-sander!

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Hey Corduroy, you are right about the side play on a drill press not being as strong as on a mill, but I have done a lot of drum sanding work on some cheep drill presses and it did not harm them. The thing I will do is to use only good cutting sanding sleeves on my sanding drums. And I will use comp. air to clean the sleeve, when it starts to build up and stop cutting very good. I like to use the longer drum sanders, because there is more surface area to work with. I for one have had very god results with method. It is also real easy to control the conture of the finger groove this way.
Chris, Top of Texas Knives
www.topotexknives.com


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I went the craftsman route when I couldn't wait also. Boy do I regret it! The belt selection is too small and the store folk never know what I am refering to when I am looking around there.
Something else to watch out for is get a good stable bench and vise. I spent money on something not up to knifemaking really.
Knifemaking is lots of fun and it's true you make up alot of time fast by learning from others mistakes when they share. Maybe Sears put out that grinder to trap guys like me...impatient. Has anyone tried the Hardcore grinder?
 
Sunfish go to www.supergrit.com and order a catalog. They have all the 2x42 belts you could want.

Garrett

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The Bitterness Of Poor Quality Remains Long After The Sweetness Of Low Price Is Forgotten
 
Yeah, don't get down on that beauty just 'cause Sears doesn't cater to anyone besides hobbyist woodworkers. Any of the good knifemaker supply houses like Koval, Jantz, K&G, or Texas Knifemaker's Supply have loads of belts! Supergrit is the best, though - cheap, fast, and with an amazing selection of abrasives. 1"x42" is THE most common belt size, so you can get those anywhere, and Supergrit and others can set you up with as many 2"x42" types as you could want. You weren't impatient... just frugal. You will always have a place for that sander even if you do upgrade.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
I wish i would have saved my money and bought a Bader. They are extremely solid and very versatile!! If you think about how effecient they make grinding become, they are WELL worth the money.

The best supply of belts out there is
G.L. Pierce Abrasives. Much less $$ than any other supplier ive found, and good service.
 
We purchased a Wilton combo unit several months ago and it has held up extremely well under all the abuse of a protype shop (12 messy maniacs). I wanted to buy the Burr-King (those are soooo sweet!), but my boss was being a cheapskate and didn't want to spend the money on it.
frown.gif


The Wilton machines look like they are produced in Taiwan and are good values for the money. Buy the best you can afford: bottom line is you get what you pay for.
smile.gif
 
madpoet, how did you radius the platten edge, grinding or bending? thanks DanL.
 
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