Which steel for a custom?? I need help

rodriguez7

rodriguez7

Gila wilderness knife works
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
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Im gonna have a custom made, 5.5 inch blade, heavy use blade with skinning and hunting in mind also. The steels im contemplating on using are vanadis 4e, cpm4v or maybe cpm3v. The vanadis and cpm4v are my top choices. Just wondering how these compare to 3v, toughness wise and in edge retention. Also, where would you place 4v in comparison to sr101? Thanks.
 
Well I will start off in saying that you can't have both in one knife........ That's just not the way things work.....

The problem is that the heavy use aspects will make the knife pretty useless for the hunting and skinning, kinda like using a brick to cut with.
 
I guess it depends on the grind and steel used, I have used my bark river in 3v on a lot of animals. Been pretty impressed with it, just looking for similar toughness with a little better edge retention, nothing like the high end brittle steels offer. I dont need anything like s90v or similar, thats why im sticking with my choices. I appreciate you chiming in though ankerson. I've never used anything like your custom wilson's or anything. But I think my bravo 1 cuts pretty dam well.
 
rodriguez7 said:
I guess it depends on the grind and steel used, I have used my bark river in 3v on a lot of animals. Been pretty impressed with it, just looking for similar toughness with a little better edge retention, nothing like the high end brittle steels offer. I dont need anything like s90v or similar, thats why im sticking with my choices. I appreciate you chiming in though ankerson. I've never used anything like your custom wilson's or anything. But I think my bravo 1 cuts pretty dam well.
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3V is about the best you are going to get toughness wise with good edge retention as long as the hardness isn't up too high and the knife isn't ground too thin.

Those other steels aren't brittle, I have done things with them that you wouldn't believe....... And at very high hardness and about as thin as printer paper behind the edge...

I have a CPM 10V custom coming that I will be testing here soon, watch for it.....

In the end a person has to decide what they want out of a knife, there will be some compromises that have to be made..

To get one thing another thing has to be given up.
 
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Is CPM-9V an option? From what I've read, it has toughness that is not quite that of 3V but still very tough, but it also has much better wear resistance?
 
pnsxyr said:
Is CPM-9V an option? From what I've read, it has toughness that is not quite that of 3V but still very tough, but it also has much better wear resistance?
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No, way too soft for knife use, it's been talked about before.
 
I would ask at this point, how much of a factor would rust/pitting some into play with a custom that will be used on blood, highly acidic, salty environments, humidity, sweat that comes with the outdoor life? From what little I've read and really don't know, the steels of choice are prone to rust/pitting.
 
I wish he would detail "hard use" . Blood is not 'highly acidic' but it's acidic + salt + iron [hemoglobin ]. All work together to rust. A stainless steel would be nice .Other than that ? well 3V has enough stuff in it to make it rust resistant .I don't have actual experience with others in that list. How you treat your knives is important too.A diver should always rinse off knife after diving and don't store it in the sheath. Blood and other corrosive thins should always be cleaned even if it's just to wipe off the blood and moisture .
 
mete said:
I wish he would detail "hard use" . Blood is not 'highly acidic' but it's acidic + salt + iron [hemoglobin ]. All work together to rust. A stainless steel would be nice .Other than that ? well 3V has enough stuff in it to make it rust resistant .I don't have actual experience with others in that list. How you treat your knives is important too.A diver should always rinse off knife after diving and don't store it in the sheath. Blood and other corrosive thins should always be cleaned even if it's just to wipe off the blood and moisture .
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We have seen this more than once lately....

I want this knife to do everything threads......

Not sure what is going on or what people have been reading or watching but we are seeing it more as time goes on.....

A knife made and designed for hard use is going to suck at actually cutting things, it will be too heavy, too thick in both edge and blade geometry.
 
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Ankerson said:
3V is about the best you are going to get toughness wise with good edge retention as long as the hardness isn't up too high and the knife isn't ground too thin.

Those other steels aren't brittle, I have done things with them that you wouldn't believe....... And at very high hardness and about as thin as printer paper behind the edge...

I have a CPM 10V custom coming that I will be testing here soon, watch for it.....

In the end a person has to decide what they want out of a knife, there will be some compromises that have to be made..

To get one thing another thing has to be given up.
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I somewhat recently acquired a Kephart-style knife in 10v made by Big Chris. I believe Peters did the HT on it. If you were itching to test 10v, I could send the knife your way.

Adam
 
trevitrace said:
I somewhat recently acquired a Kephart-style knife in 10v made by Big Chris. I believe Peters did the HT on it. If you were itching to test 10v, I could send the knife your way.

Adam
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I have already tested 10V more than once......

And I own a knife in K294....
 
I would choose 3V for a multi purpose knife. I have to agree with what Jim said though, a knife that is ground to withstand heavy abuse is not going to be fun to use for food prep or game care. You can find a middle ground where it will perform better at cutting tasks, but if you are an abusive knife user there will still be the possibility of breakage.
It's like my truck, it will drive through a butt-hole deep mud hole and climb hills all day, but it is not enjoyable to drive in heavy traffic or park in a single spot at the grocery store.
If you excel at one thing you have to have some give at another.
 
Big Chris said:
I would choose 3V for a multi purpose knife. I have to agree with what Jim said though, a knife that is ground to withstand heavy abuse is not going to be fun to use for food prep or game care. You can find a middle ground where it will perform better at cutting tasks, but if you are an abusive knife user there will still be the possibility of breakage.
It's like my truck, it will drive through a butt-hole deep mud hole and climb hills all day, but it is not enjoyable to drive in heavy traffic or park in a single spot at the grocery store.
If you excel at one thing you have to have some give at another.
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Yeah, a cutter might do OK until it gets twisted and then you hear that awful ting sound......... :eek:

Nothing wrong with the knife or the steel, it was just pushed beyond what it was designed to do.

You really start thinning out even 3V making it a slicer and then start trying to split logs with it there will be a problem, something like 1/8" blade stock and .010" or less behind the edge and at 61-62 HRC. :D

People have to use some common since before they start honking on a knife......
 
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I love 3v and how tough it is. So far all my knives have been made from it and I'm very happy with the performance. I can do some things with it I'd be concerned with in other steels.

With that said "tough" is always relative. Yes a 3v slicer is "tough" when compared to OTHER SLICERS. A 3v slicer may not be as "tough" when compared to an ESEE5.
 
TLR said:
I love 3v and how tough it is. So far all my knives have been made from it and I'm very happy with the performance. I can do some things with it I'd be concerned with in other steels.

With that said "tough" is always relative. Yes a 3v slicer is "tough" when compared to OTHER SLICERS. A 3v slicer may not be as "tough" when compared to an ESEE5.
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Yeah that's were common since comes into play. :)

You can make one pretty tough, even thin, but the hardness would have to be lowered so then one would have to be worried about rolling because of the loss of compression strength if it's really thin so it's a balance.

But not as you said it's not going to be tough like an EESE 5 that's .035" behind the edge and 1095 at 57 RC or less, but it will cut one heck of a lot better.....
 
Buy a knife to withstand the hardest use that you actually will have, and then put up with its cutting ability. If that isn't good enough then buy 2 knives, or a knife and an axe. It is good to brag that you have bought the toughest knife that you can buy while you are slicing an apple, but why put up with the compromises if you don't have to? (In my area I see a lot of people driving pickups that would be better served with a good sedan. I was following a pickup in traffic the other day thinking that the nicely dressed lady inside didn't really need the functionality of a pickup when we came to a set or railroad tracks. She had to slow down to 5 mph to go over the railroad tracks while I would not have even slowed down to go over them in my stiffly sprung sports car. Why own a big tough vehicle if you can't even drive it over railroad tracks?)
 
Busse SOB and a hatchet, that would be my first suggestion. If you have to have is custom made 3v.
 
I have busse's and swamprats, they're tough as hell, but their edge retention on elk hide or pigs isn't that great. Hard use to me, is maybe battoning logs, splitting some bone, spitting deer pelvis's, something I dont have to worry about breaking to easily. Something I can rely on. Im not talking cutting bolts or anything. Thats what the busse's are for. Just figured from what I have read, that 4v and vanadis have plenty of toughness, while holding a better edge that 3v. My bark river in 3v is rather impressive, I was thinking of buying the new bravo 1.25, but figured I would get a custom similar to the bravo, with a better heat treat. Not sure what else to say. Like I said, I dont need a really thin slicer, the bravo 1 edge geometry seems good enough for field tasks for me. I was more concerned about my steel choices above. I would like to hear more about 4v and vanadis. Thanks.
 
rodriguez7 said:
I have busse's and swamprats, they're tough as hell, but their edge retention on elk hide or pigs isn't that great. Hard use to me, is maybe battoning logs, splitting some bone, spitting deer pelvis's, something I dont have to worry about breaking to easily. Something I can rely on. Im not talking cutting bolts or anything. Thats what the busse's are for. Just figured from what I have read, that 4v and vanadis have plenty of toughness, while holding a better edge that 3v. My bark river in 3v is rather impressive, I was thinking of buying the new bravo 1.25, but figured I would get a custom similar to the bravo, with a better heat treat. Not sure what else to say. Like I said, I dont need a really thin slicer, the bravo 1 edge geometry seems good enough for field tasks for me. I was more concerned about my steel choices above. I would like to hear more about 4v and vanadis. Thanks.
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Those steels aren't going to give you much more than 3V will already, you would have to jump to the next level to see any real difference in edge retention.

But then if you start talking about edge retention the hardness would have higher than what you have now, but you would lose toughness....

It's all a trade off, to get one thing you have to give up something else..... That's the way it works, there is no magic to it.

Tougher steels = Less edge retention

More Edge retention = Less Toughness
 
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