White out for decarb protection

Dan Pierson

Dan Pierson

Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Messages
2,357
After Mike's mention of this in a recent thread, I decided to try it. Here's the result of the first test after quenching and tempering but no other cleanup:

7 blades protected by Bic Wite Out

The three on the right are old bandsaw steel from IG that's believed to be 15N20. The four on the right are O1. I wonder why the bandsaw steel didn't come clean as well?

Unless something bad shows up in finishing and testing, this looks to be how I'll be protecting thin oil quenched blades from now on.
 
I tried it 2 days ago and thought it really sucked compared to the pbc antiscale compound I usually use. Won't be trying that one again.:o
Sorry to be blunt, just being honest
Matt Doyle
 
hey dan glad to hear ti worked to some extent, did you give it a good two or three thick coats? pretty cool looking blades too dan

matt: yeah that expensive stuff is really good. but this works when you're in a pinch or your cheap. i would imagine there's some type of variable in the type of white out you use too....

well atleast thats my story, and i'm sticking with it:D

hmmm someone should go buy a bunch of brands and test them all. like glue wars but not as cool
 
mdoyle said:
I tried it 2 days ago and thought it really sucked compared to the pbc antiscale compound I usually use. Won't be trying that one again.:o
Sorry to be blunt, just being honest
Matt Doyle
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No problem. I've had trouble with the pbc on thin blades -- they don't stay hot enough long enough for me to get a good coating. I've notice that it works much better for me on thicker blades though.
 
hmmm someone should go buy a bunch of brands and test them all. like glue wars but not as cool
Click to expand...

Mike,
Please test them on YOUR steel.:D I'll keep covering mine up with PBC.:thumbup: I wil admit that it was decidedly better than nothing, but if I have to go to 120 to get the small areas that didn't turn out, then I may as well have just used nothing. From the standpoint of decarb.... That's a different story. I'm sure it helped considerably over nothing at all in that aspect. Still not good enough to justify the savings to me. If I was out I'd use it.
Matt
 
Dan,
The only thin blades I've done have been fillet knives, and only a couple at that, but I don't remember any problems. I use it @ 800 degrees, and if it gets cold, it just goes back in the oven for a minute, then recoated. Works for me.
Matt
 
It doesn't seem cost effective to use something as expensive as white out (figure the cost per quart !) to do what Turco of other coatings do just fine already.
Stacy
 
of course not, we're not going for cost effective. we're just going for using what you have at the time really.... i just thought it was a cool little trick in a pinch.
 
dlpierson said:
No problem. I've had trouble with the pbc on thin blades -- they don't stay hot enough long enough for me to get a good coating. I've notice that it works much better for me on thicker blades though.
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not to high jack the thread but,,
Dan I just got some of the new PBC liquid type, I guess you do not have to heat the blade with this according to Browneils when I called them.
I'll be trying that stuff I hope next week,, the other pbc is a mess to use I think but works.. this new stuff you just dip and let it dry then H/T
and they say good to 2200 deg too :)


I think if the W/O works that would be good for spoting if you had a need for that too.
and as Mike mentioned in a pinch maybe too.
 
sounds like nice stuff dan.
good one on the spotting too... i have used the white out to cover up filework before while hting. that was nice
 
Dan Gray said:
not to high jack the thread but,,
Click to expand...

No problem, this all started for me with the tread on the new liquid from Brownells -- is it really a version of PBC or something from a different company?

Dan Gray said:
Dan I just got some of the new PBC liquid type, I guess you do not have to heat the blade with this according to Browneils when I called them.
I'll be trying that stuff I hope next week,, the other pbc is a mess to use I think but works.. this new stuff you just dip and let it dry then H/T
and they say good to 2200 deg too :)
Click to expand...

How long a blade can you dip with the amount in the container? It looked rather small, but maybe that was just me misunderstanding the picture.

I may well get some, but I'm switching to A2 for most of my thin blades so I'll also have the foil option. I'll be using quench plates as well.

Dan Gray said:
I think if the W/O works that would be good for spoting if you had a need for that too.
and as Mike mentioned in a pinch maybe too.
Click to expand...

I tried it because I had all those thin (.045 - 1/8") blades to HT and I knew that the powder would give me trouble. Won't really know how well it worked until I clean them up next weekend. Only the two 1/8" have the bevels ground so I have some room to clean things up. They were finished to 220. I agree with Matt that if I have to go back to 120 to clean up it's clearly a lose.

I'll keep it in mind for touch up though anyway.
 
How long a blade can you dip with the amount in the container? It looked rather small, but maybe that was just me misunderstanding the picture.

I may well get some, but I'm switching to A2 for most of my thin blades so I'll also have the foil option. I'll be using quench plates as well.
Click to expand...


Dan P I bought 3 containers of it.. so the paln is I'll make a pvc container to put it all in unless I find something else to put it in..
they say you can paint it on if you want also.. I'd rather just dip it..

I guess it is PBC but the high temp grade suspended in water

I like the idea of it being capable of the higher temp because most of the steel I use is 154 CM at 1950 deg's

I also use quench plates and this I think may work better then in foil because of hot air being trapped in the foil. as long as this stuff doesn't insulate the steel while trying to cool it
I think it will work better then foil.. I hope anyway..

with stainless I'll grind close to where I want the edge as thin as .025

with the high carbons I'll keep those edges at about .040+ I'm not sure PBC or anything else will keep it from warping if ground down to .025 and less?
and that depends on how big the Blade is also..

just my 2 cents worth..

Mike yes on file work I didn't think about that.. but I am wondering about different grades of it if that is such a thing.. I wonder if the woman that invented white-out still has the paten or sold it off? :confused:
 
Dan Gray said:
not to high jack the thread but,,
Dan I just got some of the new PBC liquid type, I guess you do not have to heat the blade with this according to Browneils when I called them.
..........and they say good to 2200 deg too :)
Can someone post a link to this?
Click to expand...
 
this stuff works very well. It can be bought by the gallon or quart directly from the manufacture. Don Fogg uses this same stuff mixed with Satanite for clay quenching his swords and knives. He mixes the dry satanite directly into the anti scale stuff.
 
burke531 said:
this stuff works very well. It can be bought by the gallon or quart directly from the manufacture. Don Fogg uses this same stuff mixed with Satanite for clay quenching his swords and knives. He mixes the dry satanite directly into the anti scale stuff.
Click to expand...
Bill
you are talking about the PBC and not the White out right?
do you have a link to the manufacture or Name and Ph#? thanks :)
 
Hi Dan,

Yes I am talking about the pbc stuff. It is made by advanced technical products in Cincinnati Ohio. Here is the link. http://www.advancedtechnicalprod.com/index.htm One thing about dipping the blade in this stuff is that if you are usung a shallow hardening steel the coating will be thick enough to retard hardening especially in thin cross sections. I just paint it on with a chip brush and have had very good luck with it. there is still some clean up to do but no scale.
 
Thanks Bill
have you tried it dipped on 1095? and if so how did it work out for you?
I'm just wondering if it retards it to much for oil maybe going for a Water or Brine quench maybe would be better ?
 
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