Who are the Benchmark Makers?

Bob Loveless, Jerry Fisk, Kevin Cashen, Michael Walker, Tony Bose, Ron Lake, Ed Fowler and Don Fogg, Tim Hancock, Kit Carson, Ken Onion.

There is one maker that may not make it on a lot of people's lists, but to me Kevin Cashen is near the top. He makes wonderful knives, but what puts him near the top of my list is the amount of educating that he does. I have learned more about knifemaking and metallurgy from him than from any other source. To me there is no doubt that the information that he has so selflessly shared has helped many knifemakers improve their skills.
 
brightred said:
what about tai goo and ed fowler?

hans
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While both have been influential, they are not universally respected and sought out by other bladesmiths/knifemakers.

I would almost think of them as "satellite" or "island" benchmarks. It takes a unique and "different" maker to emulate the style, an iconoclast in a sea of non-conformity. The elements are not generally copied, they are "learned" by classes or proximity.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
I don't believe that Josh is speaking about "respect" in a general term, but more along the lines of seeking council, admiring their work, and wanting to be like them, professionally, and from the names he put out there, I would agree with him(oh yeah, I mostly did that already).

Joe, the "Best Regards" is like, even if I just kicked you in the teeth(which I have done), no hard feelings, hope you have a good dentist, and have a nice life. Any questions?

Hendrickson has his own style, but it is like a reinvention of Moran, and what I have seen of Keesler's knives indicate the "Arkansas School" but that ALSO has to be attributed to Moran. Most of the names that myself and WWG indicated are unique to their own style, and that is key when we are discussing benchmarks.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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I took it in the other sense in that Josh mentioned being respected by collectors as well as other makers.
 
I thought it might be good to throw in a little "Thorndike-Barnhart" here!
A "benchmark" is:
"anything that is taken as, or serves as, a point of reference".
 
kbaknife said:
I thought it might be good to throw in a little "Thorndike-Barnhart" here!
A "benchmark" is:
"anything that is taken as, or serves as, a point of reference".
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Well in that case I would have to go with Moran, Bagwell, Loveless, Herron, Dean, Hancock Fuegen Schwarzer Fogg and Schmidt. some of them may not make the prettiest knife but they have become copied by just about everyone out there and they have set the standard. I mean you go to a show and just about everyother table has a loveless style blade on it in the stockremoval section and in the forged section it either has bagwell or moran stylings to it. Right.?
 
Erik Fritz said:
Well in that case I would have to go with Moran, Bagwell, Loveless, Herron, Dean, Hancock Fuegen Schwarzer Fogg and Schmidt. some of them may not make the prettiest knife but they have become copied by just about everyone out there and they have set the standard. I mean you go to a show and just about everyother table has a loveless style blade on it in the stockremoval section and in the forged section it either has bagwell or moran stylings to it. Right.?
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I agree on Mr. Bagwell. He and D.E. Henry are THE Bowie guys IMO, albeit in very different ways,
 
I would like to add Harvey Dean to my list.

Not sure, but it appeared to me that WyoNonSmith asked "Who are the benchmark makers". Should dead makers be on such a list?
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I would like to add Harvey Dean to my list.

Not sure, but it appeared to me that WyoNonSmith asked "Who are the benchmark makers?". Should dead makers be on such a list?
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John Lennon is still a benchmark pop songwriter:D
 
I think y'all got the idea. And I did mean who "are"...as in alive, kicking and hammering. Who is setting the standard by which people are judging their own work and being judged by.
I think it's a fine thing to list names, and many we all know. But I was hoping for soem specifics and whys. for instance, from the above:
"Kevin Cashen is near the top. He makes wonderful knives, but what puts him near the top of my list is the amount of educating that he does. I have learned more about knifemaking and metallurgy from him than from any other source. To me there is no doubt that the information that he has so selflessly shared has helped many knifemakers improve their skills."
or
discussing whose wire inlay or handle fitting sets the standard.
or
who has taken Moran's work, for example, to another level while retaining the integrity and tradition of that style.
 
WyoNonSmith said:
I think y'all got the idea. And I did mean who "are"...as in alive, kicking and hammering. Who is setting the standard by which people are judging their own work and being judged by.
I think it's a fine thing to list names, and many we all know. But I was hoping for soem specifics and whys. for instance, from the above
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Well, you got my list. As a collector, you owe it to yourself and your increased knowledge to investigate the makers that people have recommended, and come up with your OWN observations, and maybe ask some more questions later.

Don't you think so?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I agree with STeven, WWG, and Josh, and I actually believe that Ed Fowler is a trend setter too.
 
Sure STeve, I agree. But I know I might be missing out on some information. And, if you, and anyone else, don't want to give the information about WHY you think those makers are benchmarks or what they do in the process that sets the standard, that's fine.
As has (endlessly) been said, collectors need to educate themselves. I think this here is a part of the process. Naturally, opinions are going to vary; but they are going to point people in a different direction in looking than they might have, if they are given that reason to look.

Regards,
J.
 
Hi J,

STeven and others "endlessly" say you need to educate yourself because it is true.

Following others and relying on "their" research will never give you that "warm fuzzy" you get when you make a decision based on what "YOU" feel is necessary for you to spend money on a knife.

You are also correct that questions like this will aid you in your research. Perhaps a new thread with the question: "What makes a maker a Benchmark Maker?"

There have been several makers mentioned in this thread to include Kevin Cashen who have been named "Benchmark" makers. First question would be "Why". Second would be how about his mentor Tim Zowada?

WWG
 
WyoNonSmith said:
.... And, if you, and anyone else, don't want to give the information about WHY you think those makers are benchmarks or what they do in the process that sets the standard, that's fine.
As has (endlessly) been said, collectors need to educate themselves. I think this here is a part of the process. Naturally, opinions are going to vary; but they are going to point people in a different direction in looking than they might have, if they are given that reason to look.

Regards,
J.
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J.

It is not really a matter of not wanting to, it is a matter of the information being quite extensive, and STILL not giving you the entire answer.

I'll give you one, Don Fogg, as an example.

- As a PERSON, he is amazing.....Vietnam veteran(front-line type), teacher and artist. His website is historical, educational and informative. He has a section on philosophy for makers that should be required reading. His forum has participation with some of the most cutting edge knifemakers in existence.

- He and Murad Sayen created some of the first forged art knives. When saying this, think elegant, refined sculpture with an edge, entirely a knife, but transcending the medium....Viking, Northwest Indian, Scandanavian.....many styles.

- His Japanese pieces have hamon that many a Japanese smith would kill for, the activity is vibrant to near insanity.

- His designs are immediately recognizable as being his, and they owe precious little to any other specific source.

- His finishing(hand rubbed satin blades) is virtually perfect, he finishes up to Japanese finger stone level/pumice. The crystalline structure of the metal is revealed in sunlight, and there seem to be no flaws in the parallel lines of the finish, no fish hooks, no nothing.

- His new American Bowies have handles of sculpted wood that again transcend the art form. Older handles featured octagon cross-section very reminiscent of Japanese wood workers tool handles.

- Don's forge work is very precise. He grinds as little metal as possible to finish his blades. He will leave a hammered finish on flats occasionally that reveals his skills with a hammer that has other smiths scratching their heads.

Hope this helps,

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
thanks for all the great answers steve (liked your AKI treastise too), but I think that list is awfully long.........there are a lot of people on your list that I would question why.......I would keep it at under 10, the rest have just copied them......:p
 
Yes STeve...that's what I was after:
- His designs are immediately recognizable as being his, and they owe precious little to any other specific source.
- Don's forge work is very precise. He grinds as little metal as possible to finish his blades. He will leave a hammered finish on flats occasionally that reveals his skills with a hammer that has other smiths scratching their heads.
- His new American Bowies have handles of sculpted wood that again transcend the art form.
THAT'S benchmark stuff, in my mind, and you clearly tell me WHY you think what you do; I can take or leave what you say. And, see...having only seen one of Foggs knives in person, I couldn't figure out what struck me---it was the structure and seeing it in sunlight
 
jdm61 said:
I agree on Mr. Bagwell. He and D.E. Henry are THE Bowie guys IMO, albeit in very different ways,
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Nos sure about Bagwell. I got to handle quite a few Bagwells and the quality was ... variable. Is he really considered a "benchmark" maker?
 
tom mayo said:
thanks for all the great answers steve (liked your AKI treastise too), but I think that list is awfully long.........there are a lot of people on your list that I would question why.......I would keep it at under 10, the rest have just copied them......:p
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Actually, I did my list without looking at what others had posted. That way I wouldn't be influenced by what someone else posted.
 
flava said:
Nos sure about Bagwell. I got to handle quite a few Bagwells and the quality was ... variable. Is he really considered a "benchmark" maker?
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How many Morans have you handled? I like to say that although many guitar players who came after Chuck Berry may be more technically and artistically more adept, they are, ultimately, still playing Chuck Berry riffs. Where would the bowie be today but for Bill Bagwell's infatuation with the design?
 
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