Who are the Benchmark Makers?

From the stock removal/high end production/custom area I'd add either Busse or Strider, whichever one first came out with the no bs, or limited bs as it may be, warranty that covers abuse and anything else you can do to their knives. Seems like a big deal to a lot of people. Was anyone else doing this before them?

And Strider for figuring out how to market away cosmetic flaws in knives and almost make them look intentional. Which opened the doors for other makers to do too. This isn't a knock on Striders, I think it's brilliant how it was done.

Same with the sharpened prybar knives from either Busse or Strider. Were there other people making and successfully marketing them before B or S?

This is all IMHO, which may be wrong as I haven't been around for as long as most of the guys in this thread.
 
I feel most of these lists are too long. For me, the 'Bench Mark Makers' are the ones who started all this.

Scagle (spl?)
Randal
Loveless
Moran
Lake
Walker

and more recent,

Schmidt
Fogg
McHenry
Warenski
D.E. Henry
Bose


I could add a few more names to the second list. But I feel the makers listed here are at the root of almost everything being done today in custom knives.

Thanks, Doug C. but I am not a 'Bench Mark Maker'.........Yet :)
 
jdm61 said:
How many Morans have you handled? I like to say that although many guitar players who came after Chuck Berry may be more technically and artistically more adept, they are, ultimately, still playing Chuck Berry riffs. Where would the bowie be today but for Bill Bagwell's infatuation with the design?
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I've handled a grand total of 2 Morans, but I don't see how this is related to Bagwells.
I have handled and studied 6 or 8 Bagwells (can't remeber the exact number), and only one or two were top quality IMHO.
I understand the importance of Bagwell in developing the modern bowie design, but as a benchmark for today knives I'd choose other makers.
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi J,

...There have been several makers mentioned in this thread to include Kevin Cashen who have been named "Benchmark" makers. First question would be "Why". Second would be how about his mentor Tim Zowada?

WWG
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“Mentor”- Tim will get a real kick out of that:D, and I will never hear the end of it;). Tim and I have learned quite a bit from each other over the years, but I tend to think of mentoring as more similar to a master and apprentice type of situation. I must give credit to Tim for making me think at times but I would describe it more as a gadfly than mentor. For the most part I am self taught (something I do not recommend ), but if I had to pick a mentor, getting the Journeyman and Master stamps would have been a much greater ordeal if not for Jim Porter, a top notch Mastersmith that is sorely missed. I hope to honor him with my work. Before he left us I received a phone call from Jim when he saw one of my bowies in a publication and called me to say he was glad he never had to compete against me in a judging; to this day it is one the greatest compliments I have ever received.
 
A lot of good names here, and I agree with many of them. And others not so much. But I'm not about to way which. Haa! Two more that have had a large influence are George Herron, and Jess Horn. I can still remember when a Horn was the folder to buy. Very clean and elegant. Georges work always spoke for it's self, and is highly emulated.
Another trail blazer in the "WILD WORLD" is Gil Hibben. He and earlier Cronk, lead the way in the fantasy knife craze.

And yes, that is quite a compliment Kevin. Good for you! Mike
 
I haven't seen Kressler or Johnson in any list yet (unless I missed them).

They may both be heavily influenced by Loveless, but have certainly become teachers and followed their own path by adjusting the design concepts enough to make them noticeable as their own.

Johnson of course has taught / mentored multiple makers such as Young and Velarde.
Kressler's integral style and quality are top notch and certainly very recognizable.
 
Thor I am said:
I haven't seen Kressler or Johnson in any list yet (unless I missed them).

They may both be heavily influenced by Loveless, but have certainly become teachers and followed their own path by adjusting the design concepts enough to make them noticeable as their own.

Johnson of course has taught / mentored multiple makers such as Young and Velarde.
Kressler's integral style and quality are top notch and certainly very recognizable.
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I had considered Johnson as he is certainly one of the Better Makers in the world today, however no matter how many he has taught he is follower of Loveless just the same. Just as Jay Hendrickson is of Bill Moran and others we could name.

As far as Kressler is concerned, IMO he is definably at the top as far as knives produced. Don't know how one maker can turn out so many hand made knives. :confused: ;)
 
Hi Thor,

Kressler and Johnson make exceptional knives. Fit and finish are among the best.

However, both, especially Steve Johnson, copy many of Loveless's designs...for obvious reasons.

Another maker not mentioned who would give Steve or Dietmar a run for their money is Fred Carter.

I have a Carter integral in my collection that is as clean as anyone's. As well a Billy Imel and Willie Rigney integral dagger(s) that are super clean.

As well Fred is a very gifted engraver.

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Thor,

Kressler and Johnson make exceptional knives. Fit and finish are among the best.

However, both, especially Steve Johnson, copy many of Loveless's designs...for obvious reasons.

Another maker not mentioned who would give Steve or Dietmar a run for their money is Fred Carter.

I have a Carter integral in my collection that is as clean as anyone's. As well a Billy Imel and Willie Rigney integral dagger(s) that are super clean.

As well Fred is a very gifted engraver.

WWG
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I mentioned Carter already.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
For me it is Buster Warenski-Tim Hancock-Harvey Dean-Steve Rapp-Wade Colter- Roger Green-and one nobody ever mentions who has been my coach and mentor for years now Mr. Alex Daniels,who for years has been known as one of the best reprodution makers on the market.
Just had to throw in who I strive to be as good as some day,
Bruce
 
Ok STeven,

I see how it is. I mention Carter...again and get my chops busted.

I already mentioned Herron, Hibben and Cronk and Lovett comes along and mentions them...again! And you don't bust his chops :D :D

Glad you mentioned Carter. I guess I was using him more for comparative analysis than anything else.

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Ok STeven,

I see how it is. I mention Carter...again and get my chops busted.

I already mentioned Herron, Hibben and Cronk and Lovett comes along and mentions them...again! And you don't bust his chops :D :D
WWG
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I was talking with Louis Chow at the AKI and we both agreed that Mike's Texican mindset does not translate well on the Forums.:rolleyes:

Busting Lovett's chops is no fun.....too easy.

He is pretty cool in person, though.:thumbup:

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Thor,

Kressler and Johnson make exceptional knives. Fit and finish are among the best.

However, both, especially Steve Johnson, copy many of Loveless's designs...for obvious reasons.

Another maker not mentioned who would give Steve or Dietmar a run for their money is Fred Carter.

I have a Carter integral in my collection that is as clean as anyone's. As well a Billy Imel and Willie Rigney integral dagger(s) that are super clean.

As well Fred is a very gifted engraver.

WWG
Click to expand...

Hello WWG,

I guess I didn't think of Carter since he was already mentioned :p. He is fabulous - no doubt!

I thought of Johnson mainly due to the teaching aspect. Kressler more for his use of the integral concept. I knew I would likely get called on mentioning them.

Rigney is one of my favorite makers. I didn't mention him though as he used both Loveless and Cronk concepts heavily in this designs. I also don't know of anyone who might have been taught by Rigney even though that may just point to my limited knowledge of the knife world history.

Not sure about Imel's influences (both on him and from him), maybe you can enlighten me someday. I love some of his daggers, they are gorgeous.

Best,
Thor
 
Sorry Steven! I guess I skipped a few post.

I don't think it is fair for folks to skip Steve Johnson. He makes mostly his own styles. Sure they have some Loveless influence, but not strictly Loveless designs. We forget that Steve worked in the shops of several well known makers. Hibben, Draper I believe. There were several. His work both reflect some of these, but more importantly his own style. His Bird head grip is well known. Bob, as far as I know, makes no such grip.

What Steve Johnson is best known for is his extremely clean, and modern look in his work. And this is most definitely a benchmark to be striven for. Many would do well to try to if nothing else, emulate his desire to build a high quality, and clean knife. And I believe that this was the question. Who are the benchmarks. Steve is most certainly one.

Hi Steven. I'm afraid that that old Soldier whom I love dearly like a brother, Louis is the wrong person to talk to about the forums. He is the typical old soldier. He avoids the enter net forums like the plague. He tells me that anyone world be crazy to risk posting anything on them. Too easy to get into trouble. Haa! He may have something there. Lou's Idea of using the Net is to check on Evil Bay from time to time. Thats about it. Still working on him. But I don't think he will ever join here. Or anywhere else. A shame, as his knowledge is extensive. Our Loss. I do belong to several other custom knife forums, and oddly enough this is the only one I ever manage to ruffle feathers on. But this forum has gotten a bit better over the last year. Speaking of which. What ever happened to the all knowing, master of everything. Cliff Stamp? I haven't had a good dose of double talk in quite a while. lol!!!

Kevin, you ask a good question. If you sit back and think about it for a while, I think you will come up with a fairly good answer!

And thanks Steven. We be cool Lovett
 
Michael Lovett said:
Too easy to get into trouble. Haa! He may have something there. Lou's Idea of using the Net is to check on Evil Bay from time to time. Thats about it. Still working on him. But I don't think he will ever join here. Or anywhere else. A shame, ans his knowledge is extensive. Our Loss. I do belong to several other custom knife forums, and oddly enough this is the only one I ever manage to ruffle feathers on. But this forum has gotten a bit better over the last year. Speaking of which. What ever happened to the all knowing, master of everything. Cliff Stamp? I haven't had a good dose of double talk in quite a while. lol!!!
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Louis sure DOES know a lot. Cliff Stamp got banned ....the Clueless Smacktalker in my sig line are him.

We been cool since day one....but I got to know you a little bit.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Michael Lovett said:
Sorry Steven! I guess I skipped a few post.
I don't think it is fair for folks to skip Steve Johnson. He makes mostly his own styles. Sure they have some Loveless influence, but not strictly Loveless designs. We forget that Steve worked in the shops of several well known makers. Hibben, Draper I believe. There were several. His work both reflect some of these, but more importantly his own style. His Bird head grip is well known. Bob, as far as I know, makes no such grip.

What Steve Johnson is best known for is his extremely clean, and modern look in his work. And this is most definitely a benchmark to be striven for. Many would do well to try to if nothing else, emulate his desire to build a high quality, and clean knife. And I believe that this was the question. Who are the benchmarks. Steve is most certainly one.

Hi Steven. I'm afraid that that old Soldier whom I love dearly like a brother, Louis is the wrong person to talk to about the forums. He is the typical old soldier. He avoids the enter net forums like the plague. He tells me that anyone world be crazy to risk posting anything on them. Too easy to get into trouble. Haa! He may have something there. Lou's Idea of using the Net is to check on Evil Bay from time to time. Thats about it. Still working on him. But I don't think he will ever join here. Or anywhere else. A shame, ans his knowledge is extensive. Our Loss. I do belong to several other custom knife forums, and oddly enough this is the only one I ever manage to ruffle feathers on. But this forum has gotten a bit better over the last year. Speaking of which. What ever happened to the all knowing, master of everything. Cliff Stamp? I haven't had a good dose of double talk in quite a while. lol!!!

Kevin, you ask a good question. If you sit back and think about it for a while, I think you will come up with a fairly good answer!

And thanks Steven. We be cool Lovett
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Hi Mike, this is the only forum where the custom knife discussions are in-depth and really hashed out. The other forums are good to, but I find most of the threads here to be very educational and interesting. It's good to have you here.
 
In the folder crowd, you won't find makers more productive or as clean as Joe Kious, Warren Osborne, Tom Overeynder and Scott Sawby.

I wan't claim to know who's on first or their patriarch, but each of them NOW makes an enviable knife that stops you right in your tracks with clean. Joe Kious and Tom Overeynder have the most variety (fixed blades more often), and Warren and Scott have perfected their designs to be close to faultless.

Coop
 
In my opinion "Benchmark makers" are the equal of movers and shakers in the industry. People that had long lasting permanent effect on the industry as a whole and the direction it went afterwards.

Scagel
Randal
Loveless
Moran

Lake
Walker


and more recent,


Bose
Reeves
Emerson
Onion

And really we can't discount some of the designers that although are not makers per say sure have had their effect on the industry as a whole. How can anyone not mention a Benchmark like Sal Glesser when speaking about the making of knives?

STR
 
flava said:
I've handled a grand total of 2 Morans, but I don't see how this is related to Bagwells.
I have handled and studied 6 or 8 Bagwells (can't remeber the exact number), and only one or two were top quality IMHO.
I understand the importance of Bagwell in developing the modern bowie design, but as a benchmark for today knives I'd choose other makers.
Click to expand...

Bill Moran said right before he died that if he submitted knives for MS judging, he would probably flunk. That is how far the art has come in 30 years. I have heard people on the forums comment on his fit and finish compared to younger smiths. My point was that, although Mssrs, Moran and Bagwell may give up a bit in the F & F deoaertment, they are still the pioneers. By the way....the stuff that Mr.Bagwell had at Cambridge looked a fair bit better than the Bagwell that I sold recently.
 
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