Who are the top production manufacturers?

I will have to say Great Eastern for the users......I collect the older Case but their newer ones they are lacking.....The only newer case i have bought would be the bose collab knives which some of the Gec patterns compete with them.You cant really go wrong with buck they make a great knife
 
AG Russel seems to be at top of their game these days. GEC is close second now that the pulls are becoming more reasonable. The pull on the Forum knife is perfect. Case has been hit and miss and my two experiences with Buck has put them at the bottom.
 
Silent,

No comments in the above post were construed toward anything you have ever said.....actually I was "lamenting" Buck business, and Gerber, and all the others that have slipped away to the spark of modern times. Yes, I understand it is about survival and providing a new age generation with what they want. I appreciate quality and folks that appreciate quality. 300
 
The highest quality made today that I have experienced is GEC. I have had a little over 100 GECs pass through my hands in the last 5 years, and their quality to my eye has been as follows:

Excellent + (no visible flaws in fit, finish, walk & talk) = 5 to 7%
VG to Excellent (no more than 1 very minor flaw) = 80 to 82%
Good to VG (no more than a couple of minor flaws) = 10-12%
Unacceptable (one or more major flaws, needed to return) = 1-2%

These numbers relate only to QC issues. GEC's blade steel and heat treatment are superb, and their stag is second to none. The best of their bone, wood and acrylic handles are also top rate. Queen's D2 and S&M's File & Wire ATS-34 are better edge retention steels, and if you can hand pick one to bypass QC issues you can get the same quality as GEC. The 2005 issued File & Wire Series III knives are simply as good as it gets. Let's hope the Daniels can get Queen/S&M back to this high standard.
 
I bought an AG Russell medium jack several months ago and was stunned at the quality of fit and finish. So much so, I bought another medium jack with a different blade design. Same quality. Then I bought his Barlow, and once again was knocked back at the out of the box quality.

Had a small issue with one of the knives, spoke directly with a real person, and they had a replacement knife in the mail that day. I don't know how you could beat them for customer service.

I would buy a Queen knife in a heartbeat, but only from one guy. If he doesn't have a good specimen of the pattern I want he will tell me straight up front and we wait until he gets more.

No more CASE, Buck, GEC (and their cousins) unless I can hold them in my hands. I don't have the time or inclination to test out customer service with all the companies, and don't feel I should have to with a new knife. With one knife shop in town that sells at retail plus a bit, that means I am limited to going to gun shows, which thankfully, we have several a year. That also gives me a chance to look through older knives, which I am starting to prefer more, anyway.

Robert
 
To me, it is GEC, Case and Buck on the side of US-made knives. German made knives Friedrich Hartkopf, Otter Messer and Carl Schlieper (though their quality varries - but still strong and durable tools).

To all the other brands, like Queen, S&M, Moore Maker etc. I can´t tell anything. I don´t own any of these knives.

The three named US-cutleries make great tools. Especially GEC - their used handle materials are great, as well as their steel, which seemed to get a good HT. About Case - they are great users; I just own knives from their original line (no Case/Bose collaborations) but they never let me down; good steel. And Buck is a topic of its own. I own several and their 420HC is a great steel - though I wish some of their 300 series would be available here with bone covers.

Friedrich Hartkopf is making great knives in Solingen. The F&F is mostly great and their steel is keep the razorsharp edge a pretty long time. About Otter is to say - they make working knives. So their F&F is not that great, but usually no bladewobble or big gaps between the handle and the liner. Carl Schlieper is making US-patterns at a nice price. Their quality really varries, some are excellent and some have some issues.
 
silenthunterstudios said:
Which companies are at the top of their game when it comes to production knives?
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"Top of their game" is in the eye of the beholder. Different people will treasure different things.

I would pick Opinel, Mora and Victorinox. Not that I think these knives sparkle in terms of fit and finish or even in terms of quality (I've strongly disliked every Victorinox I've ever handled).

But all three of these companies have nailed something and have a global brand image that I think will do them well in this global internet enabled market.

They understand and stick to their core.

An Opinel is an Opinel. A Mora is a Mora. An SAK is an SAK.

These companies avoid the trap of trying to be all knife things to all people. They control costs by focusing on their core.

300Bucks, you aren't alone in shedding tears on behalf of Buck. Smells like Camillus or Schrade before the end. The good thing that Buck has going for them is that unlike Camillus (or even Schrade) is that they have a few hallmark patterns that are known the world over. Let's hope that they can rediscover their confidence in their core.
 
I would like to see more collaborations between GEC and Bark River Knife and Tool. I would be a real happy camper with GEC quality build paired with BRKT A2 and full height convex zero edge grinds. The only other way would be to go custom.
 
Richstag, without going off topic, could you elaborate on GEC/BRKT collaboration models? Please either email me or start a new thread. Are the GEC fixed blade models made by BRKT, or just the blades?
 
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pinnah said:
"Top of their game" is in the eye of the beholder. Different people will treasure different things.

I would pick Opinel, Mora and Victorinox. Not that I think these knives sparkle in terms of fit and finish or even in terms of quality (I've strongly disliked every Victorinox I've ever handled).

But all three of these companies have nailed something and have a global brand image that I think will do them well in this global internet enabled market.

They understand and stick to their core.

An Opinel is an Opinel. A Mora is a Mora. An SAK is an SAK.

These companies avoid the trap of trying to be all knife things to all people. They control costs by focusing on their core.

300Bucks, you aren't alone in shedding tears on behalf of Buck. Smells like Camillus or Schrade before the end. The good thing that Buck has going for them is that unlike Camillus (or even Schrade) is that they have a few hallmark patterns that are known the world over. Let's hope that they can rediscover their confidence in their core.
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I see what you're saying, and in all honesty can't disagree with it. There is a truism to recognize, and that is no company can be all things to all people. I hated it when Buck started to 'branch out' with models that looked mall ninja like, and went for the tactical market. It's not what they are or were. They were an icon of American working cutlery. Sportsmen and soldiers used them in war and peace. I know I was not alone in purchasing a Buck knife from a base PX. You used to be able to count on a Buck knife being darn near perfect out of the box. That went the way of the doe-doe bird. Camillus did the same thing in their final years too, going for the market where it was already dominated by a couple companies that had their own fan club. Schrade too.

But a SAK is always a SAK. There must be a lesson in there someplace that a company like Victorinox, makes and sells more knives every year than Benchmade, Spyderco, and Buck all put together, and still make a profit. I remember reading a while back, maybe a year or two, that Buck had made 10 million of the iconic 110's since they had come out in 1963. On the other hand, Victorinox makes 9 and 1/2 million of their little classic's every single year. And that's just a fraction of the 35 plus million knives they make every year.

Yes, I know that Victorinox has many 'tools' that are the same, and that simplifies assembly. But so does Case forexample. The Texas jack is the same frame as the stockman of the same size. Do a subtle re-engineering to use more common bolsters and liners and blades between jacks, stickmen, and pens. Maybe Case needs to simplify their own production, and forget about the John Deer collectors and Elvis fans and just get back to making a small selection of working mans pocket knives with grate fit and finish. It may be painful, but some models need to be dropped.

Same thing with Buck. They need to forget the ninja crowd and make real world using knives like they used to make. Like I said, you used to be able to buy a Buck sight unseen. That's not a case now. I've seen new Bucks that I would be too ashamed to gift to someone. In the past year I've had to pick through a knife shops Case stock for a perfect one for a gift. Some had blade wobble, some had gaps, some had poor fit of blades in the handle.

I've long admired the business model that Victorinox operates by. They make 'A' product. That's it. They make that single product as perfect as they can, and the core group that they target goes for it. They know their customer base. They use a lot of interchangeable parts to make a lot of model variations. They also use the most modern machines in one of the most modern knife factories on earth. Sometimes you have to invest in new equipment.

There is such a thing as getting too big for your britches. That's a bad thing for any company. But for a knife company, it can be fatal. Schrade is gone, Camillus is gone, Case had a real rough spot a while back, and now Buck is having their problems. But if you need to talk about a knife company on top of the game, then you do have to take look at both Victorinox and Opinel. Both were officially founded in 1890 I believe. That's a lot of years and knives, and still be going strong. Will GEC or Case be able to do that?

I'd love to see Case make a strong comeback. Prune the fluff off, and streamline. I hope Buck gets itself strained out.

Carl.
 
Carl and Pinnah, I see where you're coming from. I agree that Victorinox is not only putting out a good product, but they are also making millions of knives annually, and they appeal to a large audience. All knife nuts and some of the public are familiar with the iconic 110. Most everyone in the civilized world at least knows what a SAK is. They probably are not familiar with the Victorinox or Wenger company, but they know a SAK when they see one. I am learning more about Opinels, and like mine immensely, for a ten dollar knife picked up at a knife shop. Chris Reeve and Cold Steel must have thought highly of them to make their own versions of the twist lock system.

Some of Bucks tactical collaborations were well thought out, and well made. The TNT I mentioned was not too tactical looking, and except for the holes in the handle, for reduced weight I would imagine, or just to copy Tom Mayo's work on his custom models, it was a great decision to make. However, seeing some models they have made, including a lot of the Strider collaborations, they didn't do themselves justice. If their QC has gone downhill enough as has been mentioned in other threads, I do worry for them. Hoyt, Al and Chuck ran a great company. CJ is doing a fine job too. I bought one of the 703 stockmans second hand at a knife show. It quickly became one of my favorites. Then, just as I had read in Knife World, the springs finally gave way, and I had something that looked like John Carpenters The Thing had taken possession of the knife. Sent it back in to Buck, and got a new dymondwood 303 with a coupon for Buck's online site. The shield promptly fell out of the 303, and after a quick scouring of Bucks site, I found that I could not use the coupon in their custom shop area, and stuck it in my desk drawer at work. I don't know if it made it's way home, or if it is in the myriad of office supplies at work. The 303 was traded or sold or given away, no idea which, and someone else epoxied the shield into place. The end of the world, no. Does it leave me with a bad taste in my mouth about Bucks? No. I am not a Buck collector so I cannot comment on the current state of Buck knives. However, I would hate to see them go the way of Camillus and Schrade. Case may still be on a slippery slope, but I hope they survive too.
 
What Richstag is referring to is a Nothwoods Brand knife using the GEC #53 frame and a Scagel knife using the #48 frame had been sent to BRKT to have the blades convexed....and the other part of the question GEC makes their own fixed blades....
 
I haven't seen the recent Buck knives discussion but I think Buck should be commended for modernizing processes. There was a lot of ingenuity involved... and there are still made in the USA 301 and 303 knives. A lot can be learned by studying the Buck knives. And I think I've learned a lot about knives in general from 300Buck's detailed photos and discussion about them.

All modern traditional knives are modern interpretations of the oldies. Unlike old stock knives a Buck 301 doesn't have flush backsprings. *gasp* :p If the handles were shaped by grinding them flush with the liners, uneven backsprings would be sloppy. But they aren't. The handles are molded. The same applies to Swiss army knives. Yes, they also have uneven backsprings. And both knives are excellent knives despite the differences between them and vintage stock knives or vintage Swiss army knives. GEC may use some of the old manufacturing techniques but New York Knife Co didn't use a waterjet. ;) ...and many of GEC's knives look very different than the oldies.

The 301 isn't intended to be a recreation of an old stock knife. It's a 301. And that's probably part of the reason for its success. The thick blades, three springs and molded handles aren't typical of old stock knives but that seems to be what is popular these days... and at the end of the day, knife manufacturers need black ink in their ledgers. Many of the modern manufacturing techniques are also the reason for the 301's reputation as a "bomb proof" knife as well as the reason that they are still produced in the USA at a very reasonable price.

All companies battle with quality control issues. GEC often gets praised for their quality control but GEC produces such small numbers that they could name each knife. :p One LIMITED production Case run of a SINGLE pattern and color is more than GEC produces in a year. Even so, some knives with defects manage to escape the GEC factory. People make mistakes. But I think they're doing a good job. I hope whatever it is that has the Buck fans concerned will get sorted out.

I think Who's at "Top of their game" is a difficult question to answer since the game is very different for each manufacturer. I'm just happy to have so many great choices. I'm a fan of all the brands mentioned in this thread... don't forget the Douk-Douk! Some of the best knives have come out of the small factory orders when collectors get involved. The harness jacks and forum knives are good evidence.
 
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supratentorial said:
GEC often gets praised for their quality control but GEC produces such small numbers that they could name each knife. :p
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Always nice to start the day with a smile.... :)

One LIMITED production Case run of a SINGLE pattern and color is more than GEC produces in a year.
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That certainly starts to put things into perspective, for me.

~ P.
 
In my neck of the woods I see mostly Buck and Case..Also without any complaints so I'd say they're at the top of their game...The only complaints I've ever heard about those two were on the web
 
Yes I would have to agree that the Seki Sog and Al Mar knives are my favourites. Although the Pumaster steel Puma's are still holding up well at the bottom of my drawer. Also Kershaw Kai knives and the good old Gerber's including the A400 and the Magnum Hunter, Shorty BMF LMF. So many great old knives.
 
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