Who cares about bones, antlers, etc, from endangered species as part of a traditional Knife?

My sister's husband went on a large game African hunt back in the early 80's, and paid a hefty sum to do so. He said that they chose which exact elephant he was to hunt, and that he could keep the head/tusks and 1 leg, but the rest of the animal would be used for the local villagers. The money he paid supported that entire village for months.

Now he has those tusks in his game room in his house. But he cannot do anything with them other than display. He cannot give them to anyone, including his children. He cannot sell them. He cannot donate them to a museum. He cannot use them to manufacture another item (pistol grips or knife handles). Everyone is wondering when he dies what to do with these tusks. Do they just go to a landfill?
 
I'm unsure, but I think Feral Pig and Wild Boar tusks are usually hollow and don't have the weight or carving potential of Elephant or Walrus tusk. Also, they're 'common' not coveted so alpha predators such as homo sapiens don't prize these tusks like those of rarer animals, there's no thrill in killing them, you don't need lots of money as an excuse for your vanity and cruelty. It is estimated that 90% of Mozambique's Elephant were slaughtered during the protracted Civil War 70-90s to finance arms buying :poop: and possibly a big source of pre-ban Ivory. The result on the gene pool is that the few survivors only produce offspring with very small tusks, mans' genius again.

As for the idea that most Giraffe Bone is sourced from Giraffes killed by predators, possibly. But it sounds convenient and when you think that the Giraffe's main predator apart from homo sapiens is the Lion. Can't see too many people fancying scavenging the Veldt for the odd Giraffe bone in Lion territory...or that once Lion and other animals such as Hyena have been chewing, gnawing and breaking these bones that they're in great shape? However, an Giraffe shot dead would yield up a good stash of bone, meat and hide....hence the urgent need for CITES certification about its origin.

Apparently, Giraffe tail is prized for certain reasons.

 
As for the idea that most Giraffe Bone is sourced from Giraffes killed by predators, possibly. But it sounds convenient and when you think that the Giraffe's main predator apart from homo sapiens is the Lion. Can't see too many people fancying scavenging the Veldt for the odd Giraffe bone in Lion territory...or that once Lion and other animals such as Hyena have been chewing, gnawing and breaking these bones that they're in great shape? However, an Giraffe shot dead would yield up a good stash of bone, meat and hide....hence the urgent need for CITES certification about its origin.

thnx Will Power Will Power , you got it!
 
5) Some talk about CITES treaty and ll that. The certificate is only required when shipped from one signee of the treaty to another signee of the treaty. So in practical terms I can ship a knife with a cocobolo handle to someone in AZ. But I can't ship that same knife to Europe. While cocobolo, a true rosewood is not endangered, it is still on the list because it can look like woods that are on the list. So there's that.
Good to know. There was talks about the CITES stuff with the recent Northwoods drop. Jay discussed it’s pre ban purchasing and their observance of law as it applies to them, and even some current laws. This essentially meant he didn’t need to ship certificates if I understood correctly. Since I’m stateside, I need not worry much about certificates which is nice.

My two cents:
If simply saying something was pre ban is enough to get others to look the other way (usually talking about elephant ivory, this is unrelated to the statement above regarding NW) it makes me wonder how enforced it actually is. If stateside in the US we can ship these materials, it makes me wonder how enforcement actually looks outside of customs seizing it from our unfortunate overseas friends. Who is enforcing this in the states? Who is checking in with these manufacturers? Is this just a “Hey everyone, don’t do this! Please don’t do it… or else!” type thing in the states?

If giraffes are being poached and black market suppliers are profiting from my knife covers I do not want that. If local tribes are harvesting for consumption and the bones are then sold, I don’t really mind. If it’s farmed, I don’t mind.

It’s probably ignorance but I don’t think my giraffe bone was poached and bought on the black market for my knives. Even if I have a certificate who is to say that it was even documented properly and that the documentation the supplier provided for the CITES documentation was not fraudulent.

I’m rambling now but what I mean to get at is how do we even know the legit stuff is legit?
 
Good to know. There was talks about the CITES stuff with the recent Northwoods drop. Jay discussed it’s pre ban purchasing and their observance of law as it applies to them, and even some current laws. This essentially meant he didn’t need to ship certificates if I understood correctly. Since I’m stateside, I need not worry much about certificates which is nice.

My two cents:
If simply saying something was pre ban is enough to get others to look the other way (usually talking about elephant ivory, this is unrelated to the statement above regarding NW) it makes me wonder how enforced it actually is. If stateside in the US we can ship these materials, it makes me wonder how enforcement actually looks outside of customs seizing it from our unfortunate overseas friends. Who is enforcing this in the states? Who is checking in with these manufacturers? Is this just a “Hey everyone, don’t do this! Please don’t do it… or else!” type thing in the states?

If giraffes are being poached and black market suppliers are profiting from my knife covers I do not want that. If local tribes are harvesting for consumption and the bones are then sold, I don’t really mind. If it’s farmed, I don’t mind.

It’s probably ignorance but I don’t think my giraffe bone was poached and bought on the black market for my knives. Even if I have a certificate who is to say that it was even documented properly and that the documentation the supplier provided for the CITES documentation was not fraudulent.

I’m rambling now but what I mean to get at is how do we even know the legit stuff is legit?

from my experience and from my understanding: within the USA there seem to be no controls on private transactions with knives, so no problems either. however, the problem can arise when exporting a knife with giraffe bone or elephant ivory at the customs of the importing country. there the customs officials sometimes/often look very closely at which goods are being sent between private individuals. the customs officials then ask for the required CITES papers and documents and then at the latest you can have a real problem, because at the latest then the dealer/seller has to prove the legality of his goods.
the possible consequences are that the goods are returned to the country of origin/ to the sender (USA in our case) and/or that the knives are confiscated, retained and then destroyed... and all that only because the CITES certificate is missing!
i have never heard of a dealer or cutlery having real consequences from his misconduct, this may be the reason why the dealer/ cutlery do not issue the necessary CITES certificates for their legal goods.

As a responsible and critical knife collector who now knows the CITES regulations at least rudimentarily, I feel responsible for my purchases and will avoid buying knives with materials from endangered animals that are on the CITES list. i have no problem with purchasing knives that can be proven to have been made before the date before they were included in the CITES list/ appendix.

(sry for my bad english, its not my native language, but i hope its understandable)
 
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I’m rambling now but what I mean to get at is how do we even know the legit stuff is legit?

That's the way it is with everything, whether you're buying a car, arms, art or anything else, you rely on it in good faith, even if it has a certificate that might be fake.
and that's why a CITES certificate makes sense, as a basis for a purchase of confidence of such knives in particular.
 
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CITES is an organization designed to drive animals into extinction in order to develop the land for other uses; mostly agriculture. Hunting, when properly organized, is how you manage and maintain a healthy wildlife population and it’s natural environment. The way this is going, within a few years, kids will have to depend on museums and video games to get a glimpse of any exotic animal. I am all for people making their own choices, but the endless lying shouldn’t be tolerated.

n2s
 
CITES is an organization designed to drive animals into extinction in order to develop the land for other uses; mostly agriculture. Hunting, when properly organized, is how you manage and maintain a healthy wildlife population and it’s natural environment. The way this is going, within a few years, kids will have to depend on museums and video games to get a glimpse of any exotic animal. I am all for people making their own choices, but the endless lying shouldn’t be tolerated.

n2s

CITES was drafted as a result of a resolution adopted in 1963 at a meeting of members of IUCN (The World Conservation Union). The text of the Convention was finally agreed at a meeting of representatives of 80 countries in Washington, D.C., United States of America, on 3 March 1973, and on 1 July 1975 CITES entered in force. The original of the Convention was deposited with the Depositary Government in the English, French and Spanish languages, each version being equally authentic. The Convention is also available in Chinese and Russian.

The need for CITES​

Widespread information about the endangered status of many prominent species, such as the tiger and elephants, might make the need for such a convention seem obvious. But at the time when the ideas for CITES were first formed, in the 1960s, international discussion of the regulation of wildlife trade for conservation purposes was something relatively new. With hindsight, the need for CITES is clear. Annually, international wildlife trade is estimated to be worth billions of dollars and to include hundreds of millions of plant and animal specimens. The trade is diverse, ranging from live animals and plants to a vast array of wildlife products derived from them, including food products, exotic leather goods, wooden musical instruments, timber, tourist curios and medicines. Levels of exploitation of some animal and plant species are high and the trade in them, together with other factors, such as habitat loss, is capable of heavily depleting their populations and even bringing some species close to extinction. Many wildlife species in trade are not endangered, but the existence of an agreement to ensure the sustainability of the trade is important in order to safeguard these resources for the future.
Because the trade in wild animals and plants crosses borders between countries, the effort to regulate it requires international cooperation to safeguard certain species from over-exploitation. CITES was conceived in the spirit of such cooperation. Today, it accords varying degrees of protection to more than 37,000 species of animals and plants, whether they are traded as live specimens, fur coats or dried herbs.

 
If you want to save something, put it on the menu and farm it.
No shortage of cows, pigs or chickens.
I mean there is certainly some truth to this. Even sustainable hunting of these animals has historically led to great conservation. High dollar tags generally mean an animal gets harvested, but the income generated can be used to save more animals through conservation. Seems backwards, but it has worked well here in the states. That said I know they’re already doing this and I’m not sure the genuine impact for these animals specifically. Bison bounced back pretty hard in the states after the government literally made an effort to drive them to extinction then needed to save the species.
 
If you want to save something, put it on the menu and farm it.
No shortage of cows, pigs or chickens.

American Bison

Once roaming in vast herds, the species nearly became extinct by a combination of commercial hunting and slaughter in the 19th century and introduction of bovine diseases from domestic cattle. With a population in excess of 60 million in the late 18th century, the species was culled down to just 541 animals by 1889. Recovery efforts expanded in the mid-20th century, with a resurgence to roughly 31,000 wild bison as of March 2019.[5] For many years, the population was primarily found in a few national parks and reserves. Through multiple reintroductions, the species now freely roams wild in several regions in the United States, Canada, and Mexico, with it also being introduced to Yakutia in Russia.[6]

 
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Bald eagle (Haliaeetus leucocephalus) is a bird of prey found in North America. A sea eagle

The species was first protected in the U.S. and Canada by the 1918 Migratory Bird Treaty, later extended to all of North America. The Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, approved by the U.S. Congress in 1940, protected the bald eagle and the golden eagle, prohibiting commercial trapping and killing of the birds. The bald eagle was declared an endangered species in the U.S. in 1967, and amendments to the 1940 act between 1962 and 1972 further restricted commercial uses and increased penalties for violators.[187][188] Perhaps most significant in the species' recovery, in 1972, DDT was banned from usage in the United States due to the fact that it inhibited the reproduction of many birds.[189] DDT was completely banned in Canada in 1989, though its use had been highly restricted since the late 1970s.[190]

With regulations in place and DDT banned, the eagle population rebounded. The bald eagle can be found in growing concentrations throughout the United States and Canada, particularly near large bodies of water. In the early 1980s, the estimated total population was 100,000 individuals, with 110,000–115,000 by 1992;[10] the U.S. state with the largest resident population is Alaska, with about 40,000–50,000, with the next highest population the Canadian province of British Columbia with 20,000–30,000 in 1992.[10] Obtaining a precise count of the bald eagle population is extremely difficult. The most recent data submitted by individual states was in 2006, when 9789 breeding pairs were reported.[191] For some time, the stronghold breeding population of bald eagles in the lower 48 states was in Florida, where over a thousand pairs have held on while populations in other states were significantly reduced by DDT use. Today, the contiguous state with the largest number of breeding pairs of eagles is Minnesota with an estimated 1,312 pairs, surpassing Florida's most recent count of 1,166 pairs. 23, or nearly half, of the 48 contiguous states now have at least 100 breeding pairs of bald eagles.[37] In Washington State, there were only 105 occupied nests in 1980. That number increased by about 30 per year, so that by 2005 there were 840 occupied nests. 2005 was the last year that the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife counted occupied nests. Further population increases in Washington may be limited by the availability of late winter food, particularly salmon.[192]

The bald eagle was officially removed from the U.S. federal government's list of endangered species on July 12, 1995, by the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, when it was reclassified from "endangered" to "threatened." On July 6, 1999, a proposal was initiated "To Remove the Bald Eagle in the Lower 48 States From the List of Endangered and Threatened Wildlife." It was de-listed on June 28, 2007.[193] It has also been assigned a risk level of least concern category on the IUCN Red List.[2] In the Exxon Valdez oil spill of 1989 an estimated 247 were killed in Prince William Sound, though the local population returned to its pre-spill level by 1995.[15] In some areas, the increase in eagles has led to decreases in other bird populations[194] and the eagles may be considered a pest.[195]

 
I mean there is certainly some truth to this. Even sustainable hunting of these animals has historically led to great conservation. High dollar tags generally mean an animal gets harvested, but the income generated can be used to save more animals through conservation. Seems backwards, but it has worked well here in the states. That said I know they’re already doing this and I’m not sure the genuine impact for these animals specifically. Bison bounced back pretty hard in the states after the government literally made an effort to drive them to extinction then needed to save the species.

Sell licenses to hunt the poachers. Lots of 'contractors' would probably like to get in on that.
 
Likewise with the Great Whales, animals almost certainly exceeding our intelligence
REALLY?
I'm all for conservation. Which in the U.S. was started by hunters. Still mostly payed for by hunters. The trouble with conservation and much else is that everyone feels the need to "one up" the next guy. With this type of gamesmanship everything ends so far out in left field we are not even inside the park anymore. What we need mostly is a whole pile of MIND YOUR OWN BLEEPING BUSSINESS.
 
Beneficial impacts of COVID-19 Several authors note that the reduction in tourism and other human activity may have reduced pressures on wildlife and ecosystems.

Some popular tourism destinations that have suffered from ‘overtourism and crowding’ (Spenceley, 2021b, p. 16) may have benefited from reduced visitor traffic and pollution (Kennedy & Southern, 2021; Spenceley, 2021b, p. 16). During the periods of greatest restrictions there were reports around the world of wildlife and natural areas ‘thriving in the absence of visitors’ (Spenceley, 2021b, p. 19), of animals ‘returning to places they used to live, feed or nest’ (Spenceley, 2021a, p. 12), and of animals ‘venturing into rural and urban areas, including parks and beaches, where they have not been seen for many years’ (Corlett et al., 2020, p. 2). However, ‘such benefits are likely to be ephemeral once restrictions of human movement are rolled back’ (Hockings et al., 2020, p. 10). 6. Longer-term impacts on poaching and trafficking This section of this report identifies impacts on poaching and wildlife trafficking in Southern Africa that may arise from the COVID-19 pandemic and be sustained beyond the pandemic. However, it does not attempt to discuss other long-term trends affecting poaching and wildlife trafficking in the region. Most authorities anticipate that poaching and trafficking will revert to pre-pandemic trends as restrictions imposed to reduce the spread of the disease are relaxed. The Global Initiative Against Transnational Organized Crime, for example, anticipates that ‘once the virus has been contained by large-scale vaccinations, projected to be early 2022 in the US and the UK, later in 2022 for the EU and 2023 for the rest of the world, it is likely that poaching will resume to supply pent-up demand’ (Stiles, 2021, p. 24). A more recent presentation by a spokesperson for the Global Initiative confirmed that they have seen a general increase in poaching and trafficking of ‘high value products’, including a ‘huge uptick’ in rhino poaching in South Africa and Botswana, although this increase has not been seen in Tanzania, Kenya, and Namibia, likely due to intensive local enforcement activity (Nelson, 2022, pp. 5–6). The Wildlife Justice Commission agrees that ‘measures imposed to curb the widespread transmission of COVID-19 may have temporarily restricted illicit trade… but this is unlikely to last long. All indications presently show that the high-level trafficking networks will resume operations as soon as they are able, or will adapt and find alternative workarounds for the current blockages’ (Wildlife Justice Commission, 2020, p. 5). The UN Office on Drugs and Crime concurs: ‘it is highly likely that wildlife trafficking will not have substantially decreased… buyers and sellers will likely reorganize and increase focus on online trade channels and related mechanisms’ and poachers will exploit the fact that many conservation areas are suffering from reduced revenue leading to reduced capacity to guard against them (UNODC, 2020, p. 34). While COVID-19 persists, sporadic localised and country lockdowns and unpredictable disruptions to travel will continue to hinder traffickers’ activities and significantly reduce 16 their use of passenger air travel and road transport to move their products (Stiles, 2021, p. 24; Wittig, 2020, pp. 4–5). Over time, however, wildlife traffickers are likely to shift their modes of transport and routes, and illegal wildlife products previously transported by airline passengers will increasingly be transported via air cargo, sea cargo, or in the case of certain fragile items or live specimens, by air courier services (Wittig, 2020, pp. 4–5). Wildlife traffickers are highly adaptable and are likely to change their activities to seek out new illicit business opportunities as the environment changes. United for Wildlife anticipates that illegal wildlife traders ‘will easily adapt to the new macro market conditions and return to full profitability within 2-3 years, in line with the aftermath of the 2002-03 SARS outbreak’ (Wittig, 2020, p. 3). They also anticipate that illegal wildlife wholesalers may find opportunities arising out of the pandemic to expand their operations and market share. Restrictions on the sale and consumption of wildlife products that have recently come into force, notably in China and Vietnam, may create new illicit business opportunities such as selling and renting legally obtained wildlife trading permits, licenses, and certificates to illegal traders. Traffickers may also begin to use legal wildlife supply and distribution chains, such as supply chains for traditional Chinese medicine products, as a cover for illicit activity, possibly shifting activities towards greater emphasis on species more easily covered by the legal trade such as frogs, birds, turtles, and snakes (Wittig, 2020, p. 4). Continued restrictions on physical wildlife markets are likely to continue to incentivise the shift to online trading that has already been seen at both the wholesale and retail levels (Wittig, 2020, p. 3). This may make wildlife traffickers more vulnerable to electronic surveillance and offensive cyber operations (Wittig, 2020, p. 3) The global tourism industry will be slow to recover from the effects of the pandemic. One report indicates that recovery from past global disease crises has taken an average of 19.4 months (Global Rescue and World Travel & Tourism Council, 2019, p. 9), but the COVID-19 pandemic has been significantly more serious than most disease outbreaks. In a survey of international tourism experts in October 2020, most expected that international tourism would return to pre-pandemic levels only in 2024 or later (UNWTO, 2020). Philanthropic support for conservation efforts is also expected to recover slowly; experience from previous large-scale crises suggests that donor funding for African conservation is likely to be reduced for the next one to two years due to economic difficulties and shifting donor priorities (Lindsey et al., 2020, p. 1303). Concerns have been raised about the ability of governments to maintain commitments to wildlife conservation in the face of competing health, economic, and social priorities. In several countries, ‘arguments for rolling back environmental protections are gaining traction, including provisions that would newly authorise or expand extractive industries and infrastructure in protected and conserved areas’, justified in part by initiatives to ‘re-energise economies for a post-COVID-19 world’ (Hockings et al., 2020, p. 12). With reduced resources, conservation areas will continue to suffer reduced capacities to undertake all of their functions, including detecting and preventing poaching and responding to fires and incidents of human-wildlife conflict. The latter could lead to increased hardship to communities and in turn, reduced tolerance for wildlife and conservation work (Hockings et al., 2020, p. 11). Across Africa, United for Wildlife projects that poaching of elephants, rhinos, big cats, and other species ‘will significantly increase… in reserves and 17 protected areas which have been forced to reduce ranger force staffing levels, patrolling and intelligence operations, training, and/or equipment provision due to loss of tourism revenue or donor funds’ (Wittig, 2020, p. 2). United for Wildlife particularly anticipates problems in South Africa, Botswana, Kenya, Namibia, and Tanzania, and where protected areas ‘lack mutually positive relationships with the local communities that surround them (Wittig, 2020, p. 2). The aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic may offer opportunities for strengthening political will to act against wildlife trafficking. The zoonotic origin of COVID-19 and its connection with wildlife trafficking has highlighted risks in a way that might potentially be used to strengthen public opinion against wildlife trafficking, increase support for targeted bans, and make wildlife products less desirable, all of which could help undermine wildlife trafficking (Hockings et al., 2020, pp. 12–13; Wittig, 2020, pp. 3, 5). Increased public support could strengthen the political will to attack trafficking networks through coordinated international policy responses, stronger enforcement, and measures to increase social stigma for consuming and trading in illegal wildlife products (Wittig, 2020, p. 5). Some authors suggest that the pandemic could potentially leave a legacy of more positive public attitudes towards outdoor recreation, conservation, and protected areas. ‘COVID-19 has spurred innovation and encouraged dispersed recreation’ and public messaging about ‘the safety and health benefits of socially distanced outdoor pursuits’ could potentially create lasting benefits (Spenceley et al., 2021, p. 109). Despite restrictions in place during the pandemic, ‘people are seeking out adventure travel, natural spaces and sustainable experiences’; more diverse segments of society are visiting protected areas, there is growing interest in travel but also in ‘staycations, micro-adventures and generally in domestic tourism’ (Spenceley et al., 2021, pp. 110–111). The pandemic has highlighted ‘the connection between healthy nature and human health and well-being’, including the importance of nature for mental health; ‘urban parks and protected areas are becoming a lifeline for physical and mental health… this increased usage and interest could have additional benefits for protected and conserved areas and green space more generally (Hockings et al., 2020, pp. 12–13).

 
American Bison

Once roaming in vast herds, the species nearly became extinct by a combination of commercial hunting and slaughter in the 19th century and introduction of bovine diseases from domestic cattle. With a population in excess of 60 million in the late 18th century, the species was culled down to just 541 animals by 1889. Recovery efforts expanded in the mid-20th century, with a resurgence to roughly 31,000 wild bison as of March 2019.[5] For many years, the population was primarily found in a few national parks and reserves. Through multiple reintroductions, the species now freely roams wild in several regions in the United States, Canada, and Mexico, with it also being introduced to Yakutia in Russia.[6]

Now they have thousands living on farms and ranches. They’re being crossbred with beef livestock for consumption. Many love the taste of bison, beefalo is a more approachable taste for those who do not like game. Bison are much more hardy than even the hardiest of winter livestock breeds and many ranchers have made the switch in the last decade.
Sell licenses to hunt the poachers. Lots of 'contractors' would probably like to get in on that.
Now they also have many bison hunts but they’re very high dollar. Very strict restrictions on where you can and can’t harvest. I remember a family member waiting several hours on a hunt for a bison to travel across a boundary line near Jackson, WY, to fill a tag they drew through the draw lottery. All in all I can’t say they’d do it again. The pack out time is infinitely longer than than other North American big game. It has created an industry that has increased the number that walk the planet. Same with the numerous bison ranches. That said I’m not sure it increases the wild population numbers.
 
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