Who else here hates pivot bearings?

Would you rather have pivot bearings or PB washers?

  • Pivot Bearings

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Phosphor Bronze Washers

    Votes: 3 100.0%
  • Total voters
    3
Fred Sanford

Fred Sanford

Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
3,131
I just don't get it. I've had knives with bearings and they are no big whoop. I own Benchmade's and Spyderco's that have PB washers and they are just as smooth or smoother than any folder I have had with bearings.

Bearings get dirty and/or gum up and need cleaned way more than phosphor bronze washers. Heck Sebenza's run on big PB washers.

It makes things unnecessarily complicated as well as makes the milling more expensive.

Please, go back to exposed stop pins and phosphor bronze washers.

Edited to clear a few things up: I don't hate bearing pivots. I just prefer PB washers. Gum up was probably a bad word to use. I just mean they get dirty and it is easier to get gunk in them. I own a ZT 0450 and it's one of the best knives I've ever owned...but I wish it had PB washers. :)
 
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I like them all. One could argue why are we using PB over wood for bearings as wood has been used as a bearing/washer till this day in some industries.

Here is a slipjoint, PB bushings and bearings. No issue in cleaning any of them and have never had an issue with any of them.

[video=youtube;c_ha2jwSfQE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ha2jwSfQE[/video]
 
kniferbro said:
Pics of gummed up bearings?
Click to expand...

Gummed up may have been a bad word. I just mean they get grit and dirt and lint and stuff in there. It happens because there is always a gap where the bearings run. There is no gap between washers and a blade.

I don't have any pics. Maybe someone else has pics.
 
Do any knives have bearings that aren't flippers? I can't think of any, I like my bearing flippers but don't care if the rest have washers. I also think Hinderers flip great with plastic washers. So, it's a toss up for me.
 
I haven't hard used any ball bearing knife long enough to have experienced any issues yet. I do like how they flip and how smooth they are.
 
jill jackson said:
Do any knives have bearings that aren't flippers? I can't think of any, I like my bearing flippers but don't care if the rest have washers. I also think Hinderers flip great with plastic washers. So, it's a toss up for me.
Click to expand...

I have 2 handmade knives that fit the bill. One from Alan Davis and the other from Larry Withrow. Both have really nice action with the Davis being a touch smoother.

Havent had a problem with either regarding dirt and other junk getting in the works. Did have a ZT 561 that seemed to get dirty right after i put it in my pocket. I would put a little CLP on it so id bet that was what attracted the debris so quickly. Have yet to put CLP or any lube on the customs and dont intend to. No need.
 
Bearing are for stuff that spin at a high rate.

For a part that just has to move 180 a bushing is better.
 
I recently saw a few threads either here or over at the Spyderco forum where people were having problems with the steel washers that the bearings run on. The pivot was tightened so much that it left dimples in the steel washers.

This is just another thing that doesn't happen with PB washers.

FYI, I'm not trying to say there is a problem with the bearings. I'm simply saying "why" make a knife more complicated when it is not needed? Just more to break and more to fix.
 
I think it depends on what you are trying to get out of the knife. For a user, if you're getting it really dirty and pounding on it and wanting good performance for a cheaper price; washers are good to go.
I can appreciate though, from a mechanical standpoint how ball bearings are so much less effected by how tight the pivot is tightened down, making blade centering perfect, and smooth free flipping action with zero side play. To get the same zero side play and potentially perfect blade centering with washers, you need an equally tight pivot screw, which equals more resistance to flipping freely as compared to bearings. On most washer models I've handled, there is a balance of pivot tension to blade centering/flipping ease, bearings are much more forgiving in that department.
 
Depends on the knife. This guy made good points ∆∆∆∆∆∆.
I was wondering this on my ti lock. But they never gum up. Never gets blade play and operates great. Also on some flippers they work well. But for a manual thumb hole or stud, I'd prefer pb or Teflon. But then again bearings might be smoother. Just don't crank down super hard is all.
 
I've never had an issue with bearing pivots, and I feel as if it is easier for manufacturers to crank out knives with smooth pivots when they use them. Don't get me wrong - one of the smoothest knives I've ever felt was an XM-24 on PB washers, but that level of refined manufacturing and assembly is sparse.

Bearing pivots are fine. PB washers are fine. Hell, nylon washers are fine. It's not the materials used but the way they are installed and in what context. 440A is an awful choice for a heavy use EDC knife but w fantastic choice for a dive knife or last-ditch self defense knife. Smooth Ti handles are fine on a Sebenza but ill-fitted to most combat designs. Serrations are great for climbers but awful for hunters who need a skinning blade. Everything has a place and a use and going HARRUMPH HARRUMPH does nothing but out one as someone who lacks perspective - or, at the very least, clearly has few pressing concerns.

Occasional poor implementation of a concept does not invalidate a concept. A few squished washers should not be used as ammunition against all bearing knives - that's just curmudgeonliness combined with intellectual dishonesty.
 
I don't dislike bearings but see no benefit over phosphor bronze washers, which are easier to clean and less expensive. The smoothest folders I own all have PB washers, whereas I have one folder that rolls on bearings. While that folder is quite smooth, it's not as good as my PM2 or Hold Out, for instance.

I think smoothness has very little to do with performance, and this obsession over it as of late does not come from actual knife use.
 
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I agree that there are potential issues with unsealed bearings, especially long term, and I generally prefer to see PB washers done well. However, I have a few knives that make a good case for how spectacular bearings can be. The ZT 0452cf comes first to mind...
 
abbazaba said:
I agree that there are potential issues with unsealed bearings, especially long term, and I generally prefer to see PB washers done well. However, I have a few knives that make a good case for how spectacular bearings can be. The ZT 0452cf comes first to mind...
Click to expand...


I blasted my 0452CF with compressed air and put some fresh nano-oil in the pivot and on the detent ball this morning and re-fell in love with it. What an incredible knife, definitely made better by the bearing pivot.
 
I don't "hate" bearing pivots, but I prefer PB washers.

I don't really feel that bearings offer much of an advantage of any kind.
I have had knives that ran on bearings that where really smooth and opened "fast" and I have had knives on PB washers that where just as good.

At the end of the day, the less parts the better. And that's why PB gets my vote....
 
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