Who else here hates pivot bearings?

[EChoil]

I like both so I guess I won't vote.

Bearings in a flipper are fun and they make a perfectly good knife for general urban EDC. However, I would not want bearings in an outdoor or hard use knife where dirt, excessive torque and other things may affect a bearing equipped knife adversely. I also believe, over time, they have the capacity to attract and hold more lint and bad things than PB bushings.

I do not lube knives. I allow the bushings to be the lubricant. I may flush them with WD-40 or solvent when they are dirt saturated or gritty, but I allow them to totally dry and don't follow up with lube.

I was once hard-core 'PB bearings forever' as they are self lubricating and don't need anything further.....however I now have no problem with Nylatron or Teflon, as they have proven themselves to me, and can be just as smooth in a good knife. Even PB will begin to corrode around salt water and extreme cold can contract them changing tolerances. I find Nylatron to be very stable in all conditions and temperatures while retaining its lubricity.

 

[Fred Sanford]

Perhaps you'd be interested in signing my petition to help reform over-lubers? I'm the founding member of the Run 'Em Dry society.

I'm a new member to that club. I cringe with every new super lube start up claiming to be the best lube every. These days I actually remove the stuff instead of add it.

Amen, brother! It took me awhile to come around, but once I did I noticed little to no difference in the action of my knives and that they actually stayed cleaner.

You guys really are making me think maybe I should try and see how they run dry. I never have. Hmm...

I like both so I guess I won't vote.

Bearings in a flipper are fun and they make a perfectly good knife for general urban EDC. However, I would not want bearings in an outdoor or hard use knife where dirt, excessive torque and other things may affect a bearing equipped knife adversely. I also believe, over time, they have the capacity to attract and hold more lint and bad things than PB bushings.

I do not lube knives. I allow the bushings to be the lubricant. I may flush them with WD-40 or solvent when they are dirt saturated or gritty, but I allow them to totally dry and don't follow up with lube.

I was once hard-core 'PB bearings forever' as they are self lubricating and don't need anything further.....however I now have no problem with Nylatron or Teflon, as they have proven themselves to me, and can be just as smooth in a good knife. Even PB will begin to corrode around salt water and extreme cold can contract them changing tolerances. I find Nylatron to be very stable in all conditions and temperatures while retaining its lubricity.

Yeah I really should have made another option for (Neither or Both) in the poll.

You make some very good points. I also like Nylatron and Teflon. I've had very good luck with both.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

You guys really are making me think maybe I should try and see how they run dry. I never have. Hmm...

Seriously, give it a shot. Lubricants are primarily to prevent friction from building heat that might damage something. Knives just don't move fast enough or frequently enough to need that protection. If your knife doesn't open properly without lube, you've got a bad or dirty knife.

 

[Fred Sanford]

Seriously, give it a shot. Lubricants are primarily to prevent friction from building heat that might damage something. Knives just don't move fast enough or frequently enough to need that protection. If your knife doesn't open properly without lube, you've got a bad or dirty knife.

Yeah it's just weird because I've always lubed knives. Even though it's only a small drop on the pivot, and I never over oil it. I just figured over time that the blade rubbing against the PB washers or anything would wear. Interesting thought. This may open a whole new door for me.

 

[Lee48]

...

I do not lube knives. I allow the bushings to be the lubricant. I may flush them with WD-40 or solvent when they are dirt saturated or gritty, but I allow them to totally dry and don't follow up with lube.

I was once hard-core 'PB bearings forever' as they are self lubricating and don't need anything further.....however I now have no problem with Nylatron or Teflon, as they have proven themselves to me, and can be just as smooth in a good knife. Even PB will begin to corrode around salt water and extreme cold can contract them changing tolerances. I find Nylatron to be very stable in all conditions and temperatures while retaining its lubricity.

I don't own any knives with bearing pivots. Never found it to be a necessary feature.

I agree on lube. The only time I use a little oil or grease on knives is when they are new and sometimes need a little help with smooth operation. After wearing in, I don't lube them anymore. Except for the non-stainless models that is. A little oil on the blade and pivot when stored helps prevent corrosion.

I've also been happy with the knives I've owned that have Nylatron and Teflon bushings. One of the smoothest opening models I've ever owned is an Al Mar SERE 2000 and it uses Teflon bushings. Some say these plastic bushings wear out easily but I've not found that to be the case. In fact, the 5th Wheel travel trailer I own uses a big Teflon disc instead of grease at the hitch point. It has handled years lubricating the trailer hitch over many thousands of miles and it has shown little appreciable wear. Seems to be tough enough.

 

[EChoil]

I don't own any knives with bearing pivots. Never found it to be a necessary feature.

I agree on lube. The only time I use a little oil or grease on knives is when they are new and sometimes need a little help with smooth operation. After wearing in, I don't lube them anymore. Except for the non-stainless models that is. A little oil on the blade and pivot when stored helps prevent corrosion.

I've also been happy with the knives I've owned that have Nylatron and Teflon bushings. One of the smoothest opening models I've ever owned is an Al Mar SERE 2000 and it uses Teflon bushings. Some say these plastic bushings wear out easily but I've not found that to be the case. In fact, the 5th Wheel travel trailer I own uses a big Teflon disc instead of grease at the hitch point. It has handled years lubricating the trailer hitch over many thousands of miles and it has shown little appreciable wear. Seems to be tough enough.

Actually the very reason for PB washers is that they are self lubricating, meaning they will maintain a very low coefficient of friction for a long, long time...in theory until they wear out. They will corrode though around salt water, etc.

It certainly won't hurt to oil a knife, but God what a mess. Not only clean up afterward and removing all the excess you can, but oil attracts so much junk--100's of % more than running dry or using a dry lube. Knives carried in pocket attract enough lint and junk without the oil.

Yeah, I think at one time when they were a new thing there were some problems with Nyla/Tef bushings by I think they are long solved. Psychologically, PB washers may seem the better way to go BECAUSE THEY ARE METAL, and certainly look good sitting aside the blade when fondling the knife. However, the current synthetic washers work fine for me and my requirement of PB washers in a knife has gone by the wayside. I hardly consider it anymore.

In light of detailed writings on the benefits of Nylatron washers by experts such as Bob Terzuola, Ernest Emerson and others, and my own observations in the last couple of years, I'm now fine with Nylatron. Likey Teflon too.

One disclaimer here---for a knife knut, a high end knife, say Sebenzas into mids and customs should have PB washers if for no other reason than the fact that they are more costly but still operate very well. I do admit there would be something not quite right about a $1000 knife with Teflon even if they work equally well. PB's just LOOK a little classier in a high end knife on close inspection.

 

[EChoil]

You guys really are making me think maybe I should try and see how they run dry. I never have. Hmm.........Yeah I really should have made another option for (Neither or Both) in the poll.

You make some very good points. I also like Nylatron and Teflon. I've had very good luck with both.

Don't sweat it, David. It's not like lubing it is going to hurt anything. It just attracts a lot more gunk. If it gives you peace of mind to do so, by all means continue. You will find though that the knife will operate just as well without it and it's not going to accelerate wear.

 

[Professor]

Seems like one advantage of PB washers that I haven't seen mentioned (unless I've missed it) is that they can typically made thinner than Teflon or Nylatron washers and still operate reliably, making for a much thinner gap between the blade and handle scales/slabs, and often making for an overall thinner-profiled handle. Seems like the latter washers are made thicker due to their flexibility factor.

 

[Professor]

^ There are exceptions, just my general observation.

 

[EChoil]

Seems like one advantage of PB washers that I haven't seen mentioned (unless I've missed it) is that they can typically made thinner than Teflon or Nylatron washers and still operate reliably, making for a much thinner gap between the blade and handle scales/slabs, and often making for an overall thinner-profiled handle. Seems like the latter washers are made thicker due to their flexibility factor.

My Pro-tech TR-4.3 Splash anodized special edition is a good example of that. VERY thin PB washers. Works well. Now that you mention it it does keep a thicker knife to a minimum. Not sure of the stats on the thinnest of Nyla/Tef washers.

 

[dr_fosg8]

We need another option in the poll. One that says I don't care, if I like the design and materials I will buy it.

 

[EChoil]

~double~

 

[Insipid Moniker]

We need another option in the poll. One that says I don't care, if I like the design and materials I will buy it.

Or even a fourth option. I'll be honest, there are some knives I really don't want bearing pivots in and some that I very much do. I love my Buck Marksman and I think that leaving off the bearing pivot would make it a lot less fun to flip and play with. Honestly, given the way the lock works, it might even make it a tad less functional.

But my Cold Steel AK-47? Bearings would be a complete waste. I like the Triad lock just fine, but I don't think any knife with that lock is ever gonna sail open effortlessly so I'd just resent the extra cost that a bearing pivot would add to it.

 

[stabman]

I don't care.
Bearings, washers, whatever.

Mud poses no issues:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/949197-ZT0561-Mudbucket!!!!!

[video=youtube;uCM9m8KVioU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCM9m8KVioU[/video]

[video=youtube;0PW7icSzPCU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PW7icSzPCU[/video]

[video=youtube;zLSBN0NCcdw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLSBN0NCcdw[/video]

How often do you need more "lateral stability" than the ability to cross-grain baton through a 4 inch diameter tree?

Video of it:

http://vid730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/stabman_album/5 Toad adventure/Tree Fall_zpsdl1lnk3p.mp4

It is a total non-issue.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I don't care.
Bearings, washers, whatever.

Mud poses no issues:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/949197-ZT0561-Mudbucket!!!!!

How often do you need more "lateral stability" than the ability to cross-grain baton through a 4 inch diameter tree?

Video of it:

http://vid730.photobucket.com/albums/ww305/stabman_album/5 Toad adventure/Tree Fall_zpsdl1lnk3p.mp4

It is a total non-issue.

HOW DARE YOU POST PROOF!!!!!!! Who am I kidding. Proof never stopped anyone here, lol.

 

[stabman]

HOW DARE YOU POST PROOF!!!!!!! Who am I kidding. Proof never stopped anyone here, lol.

Ain't that the truth.

But for plain old personal preference, I haven't really found that one bothers me more than the other.
As long as the knife is designed well, either option seems to work just fine. :thumbup:

 

[rpttrsn]

Maybe slightly irrelevant, but the 0770cf would have benefitted greatly from bearings IMO. Assisted! What were they thinking? Mine flips like crapballs on the washers deassisted.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

[o4tg]

I don't think it makes as big of a difference as bearing size and placement. The further out the bearings/washer are from the pivot axis, the better. After that, it's a surface area war to weigh out friction reduction versus stability. Think of balancing on a Frisbee versus balancing on a manhole. There's your wear and tear and side to side blade play.

 

[Fred Sanford]

Awesome vids Stabman. :thumbup:

 

[G. Scott H.]

I don't care.
Bearings, washers, whatever.

I'm sort of the same way. I like the bearings in the folders I have that use them, and I also like the PB washers in the knives I have that use them. The only thing I don't like is a knife with loose bearings, due to maintenance issues. If you want or need to take a knife like that apart, dealing with all those loose tiny bearings is a pain. Caged bearings, however, solve this quite nicely.