Who else uses a scythe?

[FortyTwoBlades]

I'm gonna' guess it's a 32". Narrow-heeled Yankee/New England pattern. Probably not any younger than 1940's. And about 1/3 used up.

That patent has nothing to do with the blades nor snath in question, from what I can see.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Incidentally, Horatio S. Earle -- the patent holder in the link you posted -- was a salesman for (and eventually became head of) the famed North Wayne Tool Co. Many products bore the name "Earle Special" after him. He also patented a great many tool improvements and had an active political career.

 

[A17]

!@#$%^& links! How's this? It matches the provided patent date in the ad.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yes, that one seems like a possible match. The diagram is garbage, but based on my knowledge of the hardware I'm thinking of that phrasing could be used to describe it. The "thimble" description is used because the collar has a fully enclosed end, as if you had a thimble on your finger and your finger was the shaft of the snath. The longer projection is the top strap that extends off the collar ("thimble") and the short one you can't see, but it's a short loop coming off the bottom of the collar, and a single-holed swing socket heel plate is held in place there by what seems to be no more than a wood screw, while a carriage bolt holds the heel plate in place with nothing more than clamping force. The overall design is one seemingly destined to shift if the blade ever snagged, and the heel plate is made of stamped steel, rather than cast malleable iron like most snath hardware at the time. A mechanical means of locking the plate in place like Derby & Ball did with their serrated heel plate and recessed bed plate was overall a sturdier mode of construction.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Looks like Fenn Manufacturing would have been the maker.

 

[A17]

I just watched your video and now I want to tune and use my two scythes! And all the grass has been weedeated by now! Whatta dilemma!

 

[A17]

I was reading about how you lacked info on american scythes. My grandpa grew up using them with his family on a wheat farm in Illinois. Do you want me to pump him for info and describe his technique?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I've quite a bit of info on them, these years later since first starting the thread, as a result of many hours of research both in the field and poring over historical documents. However, I'd be quite happy to hear any accounts from fellows who grew up using them, though it's worth bearing in mind that the majority of scythe users historically weren't masters of the skill. I never say no to more information.

 

[A17]

I spent a good portion of the afternoon working on thinning the bevel on my grass blade. My right arm is kinda sore but it should cut way better. The only problem is I'll have to wait till next year to find out. A comparison pic and the final product.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Now THAT's looking more like it.

 

[A17]

I think the !@#$% bevel angle was why it sat in the attic of a barn for 20+ years and probably in a shed for who knows how long before that.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yeah, pretty universally blades in as-found condition are thick as hell in the bevel. I'll usually start grinding one at the proper low angle and take a look at how far back from the apex the grinding it occurring. I've usually got at least a solid 1/8" in front of the grinding marks that are still untouched rusted surface after the first pass.

 

[A17]

I just read post 1528 and kicked myself for not picking up a grip and blade for $14 when I was in Idaho. It would have been fun to fiddle with it.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As far as the custom hardware mentioned in that post goes, I'm just waiting on the guy doing plasma cutting for me to get his new machine. The one he was using sold sooner than he expected and now the manufacturer has drawn delivery of his new unit more than a month longer than originally projected. I've got Longfellow snath blanks just waiting on hardware. Missed the window for this season but they'll be ready for the next!

 

[A17]

This one's for you, 42! I was at the Sam Maloof Museum and saw this scythe on a wall. I almost immediately noticed the lack of nib bolts so i figured I'd snap a pic or two so's I could get your guess on the date and some interesting information on it. Sorry 'bout the pic quality but all I had was my cellphone and it was in a dark corner.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I would guess somewhere between 1880-1900. If you look around the circumference of it, you'll probably notice a small metal rectangle about an inch up the length of the nib. That's a special sort of a nut that's slid in from the side. There are also ones that I'm pretty sure date from the late 50's up through possibly as late as the 70's (probably 60's, though) that have a barbless T-nut pressed up into the grip piece. Those go about 1/3 of the way up into the grip. Yours doesn't look like one of those, at a glance. Particularly since it appears to have an older style of iron nib blocks on it rather than aluminum.

 

[plumberroy]

In my teens I regularly cut a large hillside with a scythe. That was back before weed eaters were around

 

[calinb]

I have enough blades and edged tools that I should've joined this forum years ago! Better late than never and also better before I decide on my family's first snaths and blades for hayin' our 8 acre pasture (or as much of it as my wife, daughter and I can manage annually). I really don't want to purchase motorized equipment to harvest winter feed for a couple of horses and a few goats (or keep buying feed). Accordingly, I've spent many hours and days studying the art of the scythe, using all the types of media resources available online. I'm pretty sure that scythes will be right for us, once we learn the ropes.

Out of interest in his Longfellow snath development, I've already had a short conversation with Benjamin on his YouTube channel but I'd like to ask a few questions here and hope for help from Benjamin and others.

1. I've ordered some blades (including blades for clearing brush too) from ARTI in Russia. It appears that I could reshape the ARTI tang using a die grinder, cut off wheel, or even my milling machine (milling is probably overkill) and use a torch to heat to bend it to custom-fit it to a Seymour snath and the scythe user mower. What do you think? Alternatively, perhaps the Longfellow will be out by the time the slow boat from Russia gets here or I could make my own wildwood snaths, custom fit to each of the members of my family and a variety of blades to try.

2. I'm 6'-1" and I'm thinking that I could bend an SN-8 or SN-9 to improve the fit to my height and frame. A steeper lower section (the section that extends steeply downward to below the user's knee and before the bend that decreases the steepness of the shaft end to match the blade's tang angle to create the correct hafting angle) seems to me to be a useful adjustment, instead of just trying to adjust the nib positions. I could make a bending form (a big pipe bender), which seems to me to be an easier proposition than steaming bends in wood (or perhaps even walking around our 76+ acres looking for the perfectly bent vine maple for wildwood, which would properly also require slow curing).

3. The ARTI steel hardness is reported to lie somewhere between typical American and Euro blades and at least initial grinding seems to be required. Might it be possible to maintain and ARTI blade by grinding and/or peening, given its hardness, malleability, and toughness? I don't think it's correct to assume that grinding results in the more rapid depletion of steel blade material. After all, peening causes metal to migrate and it eventually departs from the thin edge too. Either way, it seems to me that all sharpening processes result in the eventual loss of metal. It can't be avoided.

4. Grizzly has this wet grinder on sale. What do you think of it for scythe blades (or in general, for that matter)?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-10-Wet-Grinder-Kit-Anniversary-Edition/T10010ANV


Thanks all!

-Cal

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I have enough blades and edged tools that I should've joined this forum years ago! Better late than never and also better before I decide on my family's first snaths and blades for hayin' our 8 acre pasture (or as much of it as my wife, daughter and I can manage annually). I really don't want to purchase motorized equipment to harvest winter feed for a couple of horses and a few goats (or keep buying feed). Accordingly, I've spent many hours and days studying the art of the scythe, using all the types of media resources available online. I'm pretty sure that scythes will be right for us, once we learn the ropes.

Out of interest in his Longfellow snath development, I've already had a short conversation with Benjamin on his YouTube channel but I'd like to ask a few questions here and hope for help from Benjamin and others.

1. I've ordered some blades (including blades for clearing brush too) from ARTI in Russia. It appears that I could reshape and bend the ARTI tang using a die grinder, cut off wheel, or even my milling machine (milling is probably overkill) and use a torch to heat to bend it to fit a Seymour snath. What do you think? Alternatively, perhaps the Longfellow will be out by the time the slow boat from Russia gets here or I could make my own wildwood snaths, custom fit to each of the members of my family and a variety of blades to try.

2. I'm 6'-1" and I'm thinking that I could bend an SN-8 or SN-9 to improve the fit to my frame. A steeper lower section (the section that extends steeply downward to below the knee) seems to me to be a useful adjustment, instead of only trying to adjust the nib positions. I could make a bending form (a big pipe bender), which seems to me to be an easier propostion that steaming bends in wood (or perhaps even walking around our 76+ acres looking for the perfectly bent vine maple for wildwood, which would properly also require curing).

3. The ARTI steel hardness is reported to lie some whwere between typical American and Euro blades and at least initial grinding seems to be required. Might it be maintained by grinding and/or peening, given its hardness, malleability, and toughness level? I don't think it's correct to assume that grinding results in the more rapid "wasting" of steel blade material. After all, peening causes metal to migrate and it eventually departs from the thin edge too. Either way, it seems to me that all sharpening process result in the eventual loss of metal. It can't be avoided.

4. Grizzly has this wet grinder on sale. What do you think of it for scythe blades (or in general, for that matter)?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-10-Wet-Grinder-Kit-Anniversary-Edition/T10010ANV


Thanks all!

-Cal

Welcome to the forum! My personal take on the questions:

1) You're not likely to be able to get the Arti blades to fit Seymour snaths without modifying the heel plate on the snath, and even then, I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure the tangs are too short to reach the holes in the heel plate even at maximum depth. Russian tangs tend to be short because of the way they cut the end of their snaths at an angle, and if they were too long they'd go outside the bounds of the wood. The tang angle would have to be adjusted to fit the Longfellow properly, but the blade would at least fit, especially since the ring can change its position up or down the snath to account for tang length.

2) You could technically modify one, but it still won't be an ideal match. At that point it'd nearly be worth just making one from scratch to your dimensions. They're not listed on the site, but I do have some collars to the aluminum snaths which I got sent by accident at one point.

3) Arti blades aren't too hard to peen once they've been suitably thinned out, but the issue is mostly in getting them there. Filing or grinding is typically the best bet for initial thinning work.

4) It should work fine, as the stone looks to have good enough clearance of the motor housing.

 

[calinb]

Welcome to the forum! My personal take on the questions:

Thank you and thanks for your prompt reply too, Benjamin!

Russian tangs tend to be short because of the way they cut the end of their snaths at an angle, and if they were too long they'd go outside the bounds of the wood.

I noticed the shortness, but didn't figure out the reason for it. Makes sense. Thanks for the education. I figured I'd at least need to mill or drill a new hole in the heel plate or perhaps I could "hook" the tang knob off the edge of the heel plate and get the correct hafting angle. If anything, it looks like the ARTI tang heel set is too much of a half mulay geometry for the Seymour heel plate too, so the nib might need to be located off the edge of a standard Seymour heel plate or a wider heel plate might be fitted with a nib hole farther to the right (when viewed from the position the scythe is held or "presented", to use a firearms term). Sadly, as you point out, the ARTI tang might be too short to work with the Seymour heel plate regardless.

BTW, scythe nomenclature is still not second nature to me and I incorrectly referred to the hafting angle as a function of the lower end slope of the snath shaft. Rather, it's the correct lay of the blade that depends on getting the angle of that lowest snath shaft section correct (an angle that's dependent on both shaft bend and user physiology), given the tang angle. On the other hand, hafting angle is of course affected by the blade's heel set.

The tang angle would have to be adjusted to fit the Longfellow properly, but the blade would at least fit, especially since the ring can change its position up or down the snath to account for tang length.

Yes--I love your North Star ring and heel plate but probably won't order them at this time, because it seems that you plan to provide them with your Longfellow snath soon, which is of keen interest to me.

2) You could technically modify one, but it still won't be an ideal match. At that point it'd nearly be worth just making one from scratch to your dimensions.

Thanks for your assessment. You are probably right. If the fit is still not going to be ideal for this 6'-1" soon-to-be mower after bending a Seymour snath in a homemade pipe bender, I might as well start with raw tubing and just bend the whole thing!

3) Arti blades aren't too hard to peen once they've been suitably thinned out, but the issue is mostly in getting them there. Filing or grinding is typically the best bet for initial thinning work.

If I don't end up buying the Grizzly wet grinder, what's your advice about using your BYXCO "Manticore" Abrasive File for the initial thinning of ARTI blades?

4) It should work fine, as the stone looks to have good enough clearance of the motor housing.

Great! I think it will be a simple matter to make clamps to hang bolts with rollers on them from the existing guides--much like what you did with your grinder from below. (There's no underlying structure outboard of the grinding wheel on the Grizzly Anniversary grinder I'm considering though, so only a single guide could sprout vertically from the grinder chassis itself or its guide fittings.) I think the guide rollers could most easily come down from above, or more easily down at an angle off the existing guide structure. On the other hand, I think it's preferable to have vertical roller guides, as you have done. It helps when eyeballing the grind angle. The eye (brain) tends to know where level and vertical are located.

I'm now thinking that I should take a walk or two and look for some vine maple wildwood that I can play with while I wait for you to complete the Longfellow snath project. I can try to find wildwood of a suitable diameter with the bark. In my experience it takes about a year of drying to avoid checkering and I don't want to wait a year, but any debarked areas can be painted with wood glue to greatly reduce the chances of checkering. I know this from slingshot and longbow fabrication. I'm sure someone somewhere has made a snath from vine maple. Vine maple is very curvy and small in diameter. It seldom grows higher than about 20' tall. It has become a very popular wood for longbow making and, everything considered, many bowyers consider it to be the equal of Pacific or European yew, though it is worked quite differently. All maple species have roughly the same density, which is much lower than hickory, as I recall (which is a good thing for a snath).