Who's good at sharpening freehand?

fulloflead

fulloflead

Joined
May 3, 2002
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Before I ever learned to get a blade shaving sharp freehand, I started using angle guide systems. (Lansky/Gatco, Sharpmakeer, EdgePro) Now that I can get a freakishly scary sharp polished edge on any and all of those systems, I can't sharpen freehand to save my life. :grumpy:

This is particularly problematic when I want to "touch-up" an edge to get it back to shaving sharp and it doesn't match the Sharpmaker angle.

I find it difficult, if not impossible, to match and maintain the edge angle already on the knife. Using the "marker trick" helps, but I still can't get any blade back to shaving sharp freehand.

Who's so good at sharpening freehand that they can offer me some suggestions on how to get off the angle guide wagon?

I swear that if I ever get good at sharpening freehand, I'll only use the angle guide systems for reprofiling from then on. ;)

I have a big Norton (silicon carbide?) Coarse/Fine stone, some small DMT diamond stones and several strops. The Norton and the strops SHOULD get me there - maybe a ultra-fine inbetween.
 
I sharpen freehand, and have been all of my life.

I've tried sharpening guide systems since they started appearing on the market.

I've never been able to do a better job with them than I could do freehand.

I wouldn't be able to verbalize how to do it as well as sitting down and showing someone how I do it. Sometimes, it could be described as getting a feel for it.

With your experience in using guide systems, you know what you're looking for in the way of bevels and such, so you are most of the way there.

I would suggest you use the magic marker technique, and sharpen off the black. Doing this on one side of the blade until you raise a burr on the opposite side of the blade. Then do the same on the other side, raising a burr.

Then sharpening both sides evenly, using progressively finer hones.

Good lighting is a must, as well as keeping your Norton clean. (or your diamond hones)

After you've done it awhile, you get away from the magic marker.


I used to use Nortons with water, blotting them with a paper towel when I could see the metal fines accumulating. I now use only diamond hones, 6" or longer. I wipe those with a damp paper towel every 25 strokes. The hones are DMT Xtra coarse, coarse, fine and extra fine.

I finish off with a 6" black hard arkansas hone, and strop with flexcut gold on rough leather.

Works for me, hairs jump off my arm, and free hanging pops apart.

Good luck,

Thomas Zinn
 
I sharpen freehand...always have...and why fix what ain't broke. I get the edge I want and it holds up to a lot of use..with just a little touch up stone work and a ceramic stick. I use only Arkansas stones...mostly the hard for a few touch up strokes. I always start an even pressured stroke pushing into the stone from the tip of the blade to the back. I always do the same amount of strokes with the same pressure on each side...3x one side..3x the other. I take a close study eye and finger to decide how to continue..same amount of pressure..or lighter pressure..softer stone..or harder stone...or am I good to go, and ceramic stick it. Most of the time I only need a few repeats..with the last set much lighter pressure.
I use a different angle depending on the thickness of the blade. I tend to own knives that take well to this kind of sharpening. If the blade has big curves like my Schrade 171UH..I like to break the edge work into two parts..and overlap each part to a smooth transission.
The rest would be hard to explain. I think its instinctual. Your hand/eye coordination is natural. You tend to sense..(feel) what your blade needs. Your brain senses far more information and detail than you realize...and you just give in to your instincts. You'll be balancing your edge from this "feel for it."
It comes from lots of practice over the years,and its just so natural.
I would give you this example. I am a recurve bow hunter. I have shot my recurve bow over the years without the aid of sights that the compound archers use...and I shoot instinctively just as well as these guys with sights...and even better than some. A compound bow with sights...would be like an EdgePro...it will do the job..and quite effectively...and for some..probably a better choice than freehand....BUT is it BETTER than freehand....no....different...yes. Did they have EdgePro 50 years ago??? Does anyone believe a razor edge was only invented when samisstemacated dowacky's finally came along??? There are advantages and disadvantages to most everything.
If you use to sharpen freehand...it will come back to you. You are much better off than someone who has never learn instinctive sharpening. Same as an Archer who has only known a compound with sights and a mechanical release, to learn to shoot a recurve with finger release.
The old ways are not all necessarily bad, or inferior....and it's a shame to me, we are rapidly loosing certain old school skills...and tricks of the trade.
 
You may just need a finer bench hone for your touch-up work. I started out sharpening using a medium/fine combination aluminum oxide bench hone. I never really got a serious shaving edge until I stropped after honing. Then I started using Arkansas stones for finishing. I still found that it helped to go over the edge with a strop. I tried some straight razor hones and they helped, but still I needed to strop. My experience with the Sharpmaker make me think that a ceramic hone might be one of the better options. If you look at the linked table below you will see that silicon carbide is one of the worst choices for producing a fine edge.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=39177
In this Norton graph you would get the impression that ceramic hones fall a bit behind diamond and water stones for finish. I don't think it tells the whole story. You might get yourself a fine or ultra-fine hone from Spyderco and try it for touching up the edge. Don't worry about matching your previous edge. For touch up I would expect to hone at a slightly higher angle than original. As long as you are only hitting the edge lightly I don't think you'll notice much difference from your narrow micro-bevel.

PS. When I micro-bevel a blade I have trouble with the edge wanting to gouge into waterstones. That is one reason I prefer ceramic hones for this step.
 
I'm not half bad at it. The trick I use is to not match the factory angle, I just sharpen at what feels natural to me and maintain that angle. If I ever resharpen that knife at a later date, then I'll go by feel, the way the edge slides on the stone is different when the blade is held at the correct angle.
 
When I do go to touch things up freehand, I keep a wooden block around with the angle I want. Then I can reset my angle every few strokes, and it'll be the same angle as the last time I did, even if that was a month ago.
As for technique, I keep one hand on the handle, the other one has 4 fingers on top and the thumb on the back edge of the blade. I try not to move my wrists, and only move 1 elbow (of hand holding onto blade) along with shoulders and torso.

But I can't get it shaving sharp freehand either...

_z
 
i'm ok at it. it depends on the knife. the same angle on the opinel, which is the easiest knife to sharpen along with the frosts mora, feels totally different on other knives i own
 
I can sharpen freehand pretty good. I have settled on DMT stones, coarse and fine for the initial sharpening, then a ceramic stick from a sharpmaker for touch-ups. This may sound like sacrilege around here, but I hated the sharpmaker. I started to try to explain what I did and decided to just post some pictures instead:
Sharpeners001.jpg

Sharpeners002.jpg

I broke the sharpmaker stick with vice grips so it barely fits between my thumb and index finger. This makes a good portable stone.

I think that you may need to slightly reprofile by hand, then the touch-ups will take no time at all. If you use a more "perfect" method to reprofile it will be too hard to touch-up by hand. At least it is for me. There are just some quirks in the way my hand moves during sharpening. But even with these quirks I can get a knife very sharp - like slicing hanging toilet paper sharp if I go one more step to a polished bevel. But I prefer the slightly toothy edge the medium sharpmaker stick gives. Besides, you can spend an hour getting the knife scary sharp and go cut one or two cardboard boxes up and the thing is right back to "just" shaving sharp. It really is a waste of time.

My advice to you: Reprofile by hand. Don't try to change the bevel angle, just do a very light reprofiling. You will naturally put a slight convex bevel and if you have any quirks while sharpening like I do, they will be transferred to the bevel. I think you will then find touch-ups to be no problem.
 
I use my thumb for a guide some times, but usualy to match the factory angle I lay the blade on the stone and lift and lower the spine till the final bevel is perpendicular to the stone,BTW this works best on a medium to fine stone, then I press my thumb against the spine and that's my angle.

The best thing though is repetition, the more you do it the more your muscles and tendons remember the action, it actually gets burned into your memory.

In the beginning I used to sharpen for hours a day, sometimes,(because of all my EDCs) I might not take a blade to the stone for a month and I can actually feel the lack of coordination when I take my first strokes, but like ridin' a bike it all comes back. :D
 
I guess I am ok at it. I do get it shaving sharp free hand. Use the wedge method z537z described. I found it important to finish off with a few (around at least 10) very light, even and alternating strokes. On waterstones a good test for the lightness of the strokes I found, that they had to be light enough that they don't gauge the stone even if you increase the angle (see Jeffs post).

For me the only "problem" with freehanding is that it is substantially more time consuming than a few passes on a Sharpmaker.
 
I've been able to free hand a shaving edge since I was 12 years old. Using a jig of any kind just doesn't feel right to me. I will sometimes use a Lansky to reprofile and edge, but final sharpening is ALWAYS done free hand. I prefer a medium Spyderco ceramic, Washita Arkansas stone, and Norton India stones. Someday I'd like to try some Japanese water stones.
I also prefer a 1" X 4" stone. It's what I'm the most comfortable with.

Paul
 
I've been sharpening freehand since I was eight or nine (almost 25 years), and I have intentionally resisted buying any kind of sharpening system.

My Uncle once told me that if you don't use a skill, you will lose that skill, and this is definitely true in relation to freehand sharpening.

Lock your sharpening systems away, and don't touch them for a year. After a year of sharpening without them you wont need them—and you'll be able to sell them to buy another knife to sharpen freehand.

David
 
One of the reasons that I like free handing, using water, is that there is no mess, and suits my needs when I'm in the field, either deer camp, fishing, or squirrel hunting.

Less stuff to carry.

I still have several ceramics, and while they provided good edges, I never liked the clean-up involved. The eraser method was OK, but the best for me was using 220 grit wet and dry, along with Comet, or some similar scouring powder.

With the hard black arkansas, I just scrub it off w/damp paper towel, and maybe twice a year, lap it with a fine DMT hone.


Also, you don't HAVE to use leather to strop.....you can take a scrap of wood, say 2" wide and 6-8" long, rub your stropping compound on it, and you have a great finished edge. Actually, I think it's superior, there is less rounding of the edge with this method. I picked up this tip from woodcarvers, who know about sharp objects.

Cheaper than leather, too.

Thomas Zinn
 
For the longest time, I sharpened purely by freehand. Only somewhat recently, I got a system, a Spyderco Sharpmaker. I use the Sharpmaker to reprofile, but everything after that is being done freehand. All my knives can pop hairs. However, as time progresses on a particular knife, the edge gets more and more convex. There's nothing really wrong with that, but eventually I have to reprofile again because the edge is too convexed and needs too much metal removed for a "touch up". I'm getting an EdgePro, because even with a system like the Sharpmaker, my edges after a reprofile are still rather convex. I'm certain I can get a shaper edge with the EdgePro giving me a perfect main bevel, with a freehand touched-up convex microbevel.
 
I've always sharpened freehand. My grandfather taught me how, when I was just a lad, on a big ugly brown India stone that HIS father gave HIM; coarse on one side, fine on the other. He used his knives hard, and hated sharpening them; so he'd save up the dull ones for when we'd visit, and let me do it for him. Smart guy. ;)

I still use that same stone.

The most important lesson he taught me was consistency. Doesn't matter your actual technique; if you push the blade down the stone exactly the same way a few dozen (or hundred!) times, you'll have a keen edge. The actual angle might even vary a bit down the length of the edge, but again, if each stroke is consistent, it'll be as sharp as you could want.

Like Yoda says, I don't even try to match the factory edge. Doing that usually means having to fight my natural stroke, and it's hard to stay consistent doing that. So, basically, the first time I sharpen any "user", I reprofile it to an edge that works for *me*.

Also, like z537z, I keep the motions simple and direct. Once I get the angle right, my wrist is locked. I move my whole upper body back and forth with the stroke. (My GF kids me that I look autistic, rocking back and forth, but it works for me.) To accomodate the curve of the edge, I vary the horizontal angle with my elbow. A finger or two of my off hand applies gentle pressure to the blade, and helps maintain the edge angle.

For most blades that have a straight section and a curved belly, I generally alternate strokes: one straight up the stone to sharpen the straight part, then one stroke with some elbow in it, to sharpen the belly and point. The do the other side, I switch hands and just mirror the motion, rather than try to pull the blade.

When camping, I have a ceramic "dog bone" that I use for touch-ups, pretty much just steeling the edge back into shape until I get home to the big stone.

Lately (i.e., since discovering BladeForums!), I've been experimenting with convex edges, first on the stone (using some wrist action to vary the angle), and most recently with a mousepad and assorted grades of sandpaper.
 
I read all those posts thanks.

Tonight I messed around with an A.G. Russel Woodswalker that has a really thin edge. It worked best if I PUSHED the blade away from me with my offhand thumb on the back of the blade. When I pulled it didn't work so well. I raised a burr with both sides of the Norton then stropped. It was just BARELY able to remove hair after the stone, but was shaving OK after the strop.

I use all stones dry (except my EdgePro) and the Norton had oil on it when I got it. I just let it dry out which doesn't work so well. I really need to get a new one and start off dry and keep it that way. A lot of people recommend the Arkansas stones so maybe I'll get a pair or a double-sided one. I get confused about the colors/grits so if anyone has any tips about the Arkansas stones that would be helpful.

Or, maybe I'll just get DMT stones.

In any case, now I have to try with something more challanging than the thin-bladed Woodswalker and probably finish on something finer.

I like the advise about not sweating the factory angle and just going with what ever "feels" right. Maybe I was over-thinking it before.

Freehand sharpening feels satisfying in a way that I never got with guide systems, I notice. It's also theraputic in a way that I only get when I'm gunsmithing and tuning out the rest of the world and my mind is totally clear except for my focus on one... tiny... detail. Now that's peace.
 
I've been using DMT stones for at least five years, and, IMO, they're a great way to go.

I find that I don't even think about what the factory angle was anymore: I grab the knife, think about the job I want to use it for, and a suitable edge begins to emerge/returns soon after.

Freehand sharpening provides the flexibility to adapt to the blade and the job.

David
 
I learned to sharpen freehand about 40 years ago and didn't know there was any other way to do it until about 5 years ago. Can't say that I'm great at it -- don't do it often enough to be great -- but I do a decent job.

The magic marker trick is one of those great, "it's so obvious, why didn't I think of it???" ideas.

Personally, I like diamond hones (I use DMT), because they allow your to use very light pressure (actually, they work best that way). This makes it easier to follow an already established bevel, because the knife will actually move the smoothest over the hone if you have the angle correct.

One thing I do differently that virtually anyone I've ever met is that I like to hold the hone in my left hand, rather than have it flat on a bench. Maybe because that's the way I did it for years with an Arkansas stone that was too small to use as a bench stone; maybe just because I'm weird. However, I've found that it's easier for me to maintain constant contact between the entire bevel and the hone this way, since I can adjust the angle of the hone as well as the angle of the blade, as needed.
 
dsvirsky said:
...One thing I do differently that virtually anyone I've ever met is that I like to hold the hone in my left hand, rather than have it flat on a bench....
Click to expand...


I do the same thing for quick touchups, you get more feedback with both hands.
 
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