Why 440c lost popularity in Spyderco knives ?

C

carbonsteelfan

Joined
May 29, 2014
Messages
382
I've always been curious. How come Spyderco doesn't use 440c in many of it's knives ? I own a Spyderco Cat in 440c and it's beautiful. Works like a charm. Is there some reason why 440c isn't popular anymore with Spyderco knives ? I've always found it to be a decent steel. Really appreciate the help.
 
I think Spyderco feels that there are better steels yo be used. Have only had one with 440c and I liked it well enough.
 
How can you lose something you never had?

Spyderco started out using Gingami 1 steel. It is what they built their reputation on. They went up from there. 440C is good steel, but for Spyderco, it is used for economy rather than pure performance.
 
Nothing wrong with 440C and most couldn't tell the difference between it and the latest super steel.

But a business is always looking to keep up with the market and the latest in technology.

That and Sal is a known steel 'enthusiast'. ;)
 
Thank you guys for all the answers. I am aware that many people these days don't care for 440c. But l really like it for field use. I own a 440c Robert Parrish hollow handle survival knife that could process through two elks and still have a working edge. The Spyderco Cat l have is similar in field performance. One other question ; which steel holds an Edge longer : 440c or VG-10 ? I EDC a Spyderco Delica in PE VG-10 but l never compared the two side by side.
 
Nothing wrong with 440C and most couldn't tell the difference between it and the latest super steel.
Click to expand...

It's got no where near "super steel" ( S30V, S90V, S110V, etc.) performance and has been passed up and left behind. I'm not big on stainless knives but if I'm going to carry stainless why not get a real performer. 440C is only comparable in corrosion resistance to the more modern steels.

People often talk about 440C steel being an old "super steel". It was never. Even in the 60's. It might have been premium in more expensive knives ( Buck, Gerber) but even those companies used other steels when it was performance they ere after. Gerber used Vascowear and M2 and even L6. Buck got in later but they caught up with ATS 34 ( the first steel called "super steel" was ATS 34 and 154cm), BG42, 154cm, CPM 154, etc.

440C was considered an upgrade to 440A but that was about it.
 
CryoGuy5272 said:
I feel Vg-10 is the better choice. Not only does it have outstanding corrosion resistance but holds its edge better than 440c in my experience
Click to expand...
Thanks Cryoguy . you can imagine my surprise when some idiot dealer told me that VG-10 rolls easy when cutting tough rope unlike 440c which would hold its edge longer.
 
I would say he isn't experienced with it. I used my Delica for a long time as my electricians knife. Had many times that it slipped of of wire sheathing and hit metal boxes edge first. Haven't had any chipping or rolling as of yet
 
I've owned several 440C knives over the years and never felt the steel was substandard in any way. Knife designs and factors involving heat treat and workmanship are more important to me than the steels involved anyway. Most knife knuts think of 420HC as low-end steel but Buck makes some great knives out of the stuff. If pressed, I guess I would have to say I like Spyderdos in VG-10 more than any other steel simply because that's the steel used in most of my favorite Spyderco designs.
 
Lee48 said:
I've owned several 440C knives over the years and never felt the steel was substandard in any way. Knife designs and factors involving heat treat and workmanship are more important to me than the steels involved anyway. Most knife knuts think of 420HC as low-end steel but Buck makes some great knives out of the stuff. If pressed, I guess I would have to say I like Spyderdos in VG-10 more than any other steel simply because that's the steel used in most of my favorite Spyderco designs.
Click to expand...
If you compare side by side ; which steel can cut longer without needing to be sharpened ? 440c or VG-10 ? Cyroguy said VG-10. I also find VG-10 to hold the edge better. I just want every ones opinions and experience about this
 
I've found the edge retention on my Chicago to be underwhelming, but having said that, it is rather short! Notwithstanding, as a package it's a remarkably convenient beater that is easy enough to sharpen.
 
rick melear said:
Heck, and I loved their old 440V, really.
Click to expand...

I still like it a lot, but 440V is another name for CPM S60V, something in another league from 440C. It's like comparing 420HC with 420V (the other name for CPM S90V). In terms of wear resistance, the high vanadium steels are way ahead.
 
CryoGuy5272 said:
I feel Vg-10 is the better choice. Not only does it have outstanding corrosion resistance but holds its edge better than 440c in my experience
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with you CryoGuy>> I've had two Spyders with 440C blade steel and personally I didn't see anything special about either one of them. Spyderco just released a newer fixed blade with cast 440C blade steel i.e. the Serrata. Which is mainly the reason I probably will never own one.

The blades I own with VG-10 are many but the ones I used a lot are the C-60 Ayoob and the original TEMPERANCE 1 model. I've found VG-10 to be one of the most dependable blade steels I've ever used. My TEMP 1 model must have had a great heat treatment because it holds a wicked edge really well and for a long time.

But take heart "CarbonSteelFan" because I'm not trying to rain out your parade by any means and if you've had great luck with 440C then by all means keep using it>> it's certainly far from being the worse blade steel I've ever used. But like the guys have said we have so many premium blade steels to select from with Spyderco's line up that we have probably become spoiled to a large degree. But get a VG-10 blade and then tell us how it stacks up against 440C.
 
JD Spydo said:
I 100% agree with you CryoGuy>> I've had two Spyders with 440C blade steel and personally I didn't see anything special about either one of them. Spyderco just released a newer fixed blade with cast 440C blade steel i.e. the Serrata. Which is mainly the reason I probably will never own one.

The blades I own with VG-10 are many but the ones I used a lot are the C-60 Ayoob and the original TEMPERANCE 1 model. I've found VG-10 to be one of the most dependable blade steels I've ever used. My TEMP 1 model must have had a great heat treatment because it holds a wicked edge really well and for a long time.

But take heart "CarbonSteelFan" because I'm not trying to rain out your parade by any means and if you've had great luck with 440C then by all means keep using it>> it's certainly far from being the worse blade steel I've ever used. But like the guys have said we have so many premium blade steels to select from with Spyderco's line up that we have probably become spoiled to a large degree. But get a VG-10 blade and then tell us how it stacks up against 440C.
Click to expand...
As he said, the proof is in the pudding. Get some Vg-10 and enjoy the affordable excellence it provides.
 
You guys are 100% right. I think we can all agree than VG-10 has better edge retention. I was doing some research and l found some interesting things about 440c. The knife maker ; Jimmy Lile disliked 440c which he said did not hold an edge as well as D2 and was harder to sharpen. Buck Knives stopped using 440c in 1980 or so. The official reason was because the large carbides on the 440c blade would cause it to dull very quickly and make itba pain to resharpen. BoB loveless apparently stopped using 440c in the '70s. Gerber does not use 440c so much anymore. Boker only uses them in their China knives. Benchmade 440c heat treating can be inconsistent. Some hold an edge really well. Others don't.
I guess Better steels came along . Till now the only knife maker who is a big proponent of 440c is Jay Fisher.
 
The Mastiff said:
People often talk about 440C steel being an old "super steel". It was never. Even in the 60's.
Click to expand...

You didn't go back far enough, Joe. It was "the" super steel in the 20's when stainless was in its infancy. Queen used it for decades and had pretty much the only stainless knives on the market that were worth having. But yes, it was surpassed half a century ago.
 
440C was a premium steel used by custom makers well into the 1980s.

Cast 440C is a totally different beast, don't knock it if you've never used it. It does not behave like "normal" steel.

In my mind, you'd be hard put to tell the difference between 440C, VG10 and 154CM (all properly heat treated for application) in normal use. 440C will take more abuse than VG10 and possibly 154CM.

Buck stopped using 440C because it was "too good", i.e. so durable it was hard to resharpen once some dingus got it really dull. They dumbed down their steel to 420HC.

When 440C was hot, Spyderco used to use Japanese manufacturers who liked Japanese steels, such as AUS8, AUS6, GIN over 440 series which is more "western."

440C as a "brand" got destroyed by the poorer performance of 440A, 440B and the use by many cheap factories of the no-name "440 steel." This created an undeserved bad rep for any steel with the label "440" because people often did not know the difference between 440 steels and thus damned all 440.

Benchmade's 440C is a superb performer, equal to their 154CM in my usage.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top