Why 440c lost popularity in Spyderco knives ?

[Ace Krampus]

I would also like to read said article, and I don't have a horse in this race one way or another. I'm not doubting it exists or proclaiming that it does. Steel loyalty is an odd concept to me. If it's sharp, it can cut, and if you can sharpen, it can be sharp. Everything else is personal preference, no?

 

[brownshoe]

Why would any sane person do your research for you Gastton444? Who cares what you think you read in a knife rag 15-20 years ago?

The topic is why 440c lost popularity, personally I think its more what the market thinks it wants and production/price considerations than some type of "scientific" study of steel.

 

[Sunyata]

Ah, Gaston444 and his alleged article from a long time ago.


440c is not as popular as there are more options out there

 

[carbonsteelfan]

By reading all your experienced responses , l have come to the following conclusion. 440c is kinda like a Colt Six shooter. It was good at one time , but has since been superseded by semi automatic pistols for most purposes. Same with 440c. There's nothing wrong with it , but it has been superseded by better steels like VG-10 , S30V , etc. Mr. Mastiff shares the same opinions as many knife makers. Jimmy Lile used to make his knives in both 440c and D2 . But he preferred D2 , since 440c didn't hold as good an edge and was harder to sharpen. Bob Loveless stopped using 440c in the 1970s. Gil Hibben ( a pioneer of 440c ) prefers D2 for hard use knives which needs to hold an edge longer.
On the other hand , in Mr. Gaston's defence , Entrek knives ( made by knife maker Ray Ennis ) uses 440c exclusively. Back in the '80s , Robert Parrish's Standard knives came in 440c. But to be fair , it WAS back in the '80s. And he did offer his knives in D2 , 154CM and 01 if the customers requested. I suppose Spyderco doesn't use it much , except in their economy models ( like the Cat and Chicago) , is because they can simply get far better steels like VG-10 , S35VN , S30V and such.

 

[The Mastiff]

A more recent chop-off on this site, between a 0.020" edge 440B Randall Model 14 and an INFI Sasquatch, were the INFI got its ass handed to it chopping cinder blocks, despite harder abuse on the Randall: Let me guess, in a few years that one will be forgotten too?

Way to stay on topic guy. Discuss that where appropriate. Last thing Spyderco needs is flame wars with Busse fans. Lots of Spyderco owners also own Infi. I'm one.

Rest assured I made it all up...

At least you maintain your sense of humor. Or was it bitter sarcasm? Why would a simple conversation about steel properties cause that though? Hmmm.

So if I understand you right, selecting out contradictory evidence is part of the methodology. I never would have guessed.

Either you have problems with comprehension or are just trying to twist someones words. Would it be convincing to others or just more self delusion on your part?

You are a fun guy Gaston. I like having you around but again, I don't want to annoy others, or cause problems for the people kind enough to give us the opportunity to have a place to discuss our hobby. In respect to them I'll cut this short.

As far as the Colt Hogleg I have known many that still really like the revolver. There is a 60'something year old lawyer that shows up at the local knife and gun shows dressed up in full 1880's dress and gear. He walks around with silver spurs jangling ( he drives a Lexus) and sports a steely eyed gaze.

He's a cool guy and he is having fun. Knowing him I'd say yes, he would use the hog leg for home defense. I doubt it would be the only firearm he would grab though. Maybe his 12 ga. double hammered coach gun, or the 1911 in a different .45 caliber ( calls it gods own gun, or caliber depending whom you are speaking to).

Nothing wrong with hoglegs or 440C knives. Nothing wrong with any of them if used properly.

joe

 

[The Mastiff]

By the way I've been wanting to clear this up for the record. 10V was introduced in 1978. Powder steels weren't that new in the late 1990's by any measure. www.crucible.com/PDFs%5CDataSheets2010%5Cds10Vv1%202010.pdf

Best I can recall the Millie was changed over from ATS 34 to CPM 440V ( S60V) in around 98 or so. It was introduced as a knife in the line up in 96 maybe? It wasn't changed to S30V until the 2003-04 range. I'm not sure but I bought a S30V model around then. I seem to recall reading somewhere the S30V steel itself was one of the first steels, and certainly the first powder process steel designed for the knife industry. Spyderco was the first manufacturer to use a powder steel when they came out with CPM 440V. I believe S90V existed before S30V did. S30V was designed with input from people in the knife industry. Please correct me if I remember this stuff incorrectly.

Gaston stated:

The article in question is, again, from KI or Blade, and dates very close to the first time I ever heard of "powder" Crucible Particle Metallurgy steels, so long, long before these "powder" steels ever became widely available in knives you could easily buy...: I was surprised the testers were even able to include two "powder" steels in the test, as I only knew of one existing at the time I read the article, and that was CPM 3V...: That was a big surprise... This is the timeline for the appearance of the first CPM "powder" metallurgy steels, in reverse order of appearance, from S30V back (From Crucible's very own site

 

[The Deacon]

When it comes to Spyderco, it's not a question of 440C losing popularity, but of it never having any. Just look at the numbers. Spyderco has been selling knives for 34 years. In that time they've offered a combined total of almost 250 folder, fixed blade, and specialty models. Out of those, as far as I can tell, a grand total of 6 have used 440C. Namely, two fixed blades, the Maddox and Serrata, and 4 folders the Q, Meerkat, S, and Bi-Fold. It's too early to tell for the Serrata, which may also be the only one that would not be considered a "niche" or "novelty" design, but none of the others stayed in the lineup very long.