Why a Tomahawk?

[Dwight McLemore]

where's brother dwight when ya need him.
I am here, Brother Vec ! I share all your thoughts on hammer polls. Back Spikes scarce the 'Crap' out of me. I have a very healthy respect for them. However, there are people do wonderful things with them from both fighting and utility aspects. Sometime back I got one of Ernie Emerison's CQC-T from American Tomahawk. It has a spike that is really more of a knife than actual spike. I've been working with it off and on since September and have a new respect for the capabilities of THAT Spike. It adds some aspects that have made me take second looks. In response to several requests I'm going to put some of the lessons learned in the next book. I am no expert on that aspect but it sure is interesting to work with it and help out with some experimentation on training methods. You know everyone and his brother are tomahawk experts these days....the U-Tube Warriors are compeating with the Internet Masters to produce a whole new generation of qualified tomahawk experts. Will be interesting to see what the future holds. Won't it?

All My Best to Everyone on the great Thanksgiving night.

Dwight, Jeneene, & Toy

 

[petah]

I have to say Reading this got me to order a custom hawk. S7 shock steel in a La Gana style with a little more beard (which is sharpened) Still need a haft (shaft?) But it will be a wicked gift for a friend. and useful too when he deploys.

 

[Unsub]

For myself I see a hawk as a tool that can be used as a weapon in a pinch.
That seems to be it's role in most historical context as well with a few exceptions like how the Vikings/saxons used them to throw in a big bunch in order to breach a shield wall.
Or the french and english used them while boarding enemy ships.

I don't like spike hawks because they are a lot less useful than a hammer or even a plain poll that can be used as a hammer and make them a danger to yourself. They would be good in winter when they could work as an ice axe ut I don'r spend a lot of time on glaciers.

 

[CitizenQ]

...A much more handy item on the back end of a tomahawk head is a hammer poll, much more uses as a tool, and just as handy in whacking someone. With that said, I'll hand the discussion back to the ninjas in the crowd.

I don't believe there are any ninjas here Nuke...just some fellas who are tomahawk enthusiasts. In addition, I have to agree that a poll lends significantly more utility to a hawk than a spike. I -- too -- would choose a poll over a spike...hands down. :thumbup:

 

[Nuke41]

Nuke41,
Saying the spike on a tomahawk is 'more of a danger to the user' comes across like the anti-gunner philosophy that says having a gun in the home is more of a danger to the occupants than it would be to an intruder. QUOTE]

I'm talking about real world military use, not sitting around your house waiting for someone to attack you. The sheaths these come with wouldnt last long with all the push, pull, and stress of jumping in and out of vehicles, and the assorted banging around; wont take long before the spike is sticking through the sheath, and perhaps into the owner or someone else. Over to the mall ninjas to correct me.

 

[Rotte]

I prefer a hammer poll too. Just more useful around camp.

The famous Lagana tomahawk had a sheath. Did the spike on that 'hawk wear out the sheath? (IIRC correctly these were privately owned tomahawks and never an issued item. So the sheaths for them would not have had to pass any kind of testing. Anyone hear how these items fared in Vietnam?)

 

[Glock17JHP]

Never heard of a spike hawk coming through the sheath...
As for my choices, let me elaborate a bit...
In a combat situation, I would want a VTAC...
Camping??? There the need for a hammer poll becomes obvious...

 

[762 shooter]

Vec, did someone call you an amateur? Sheesh, if the standard keeps gettin' raised like that I'm doomed. Doomed!
As a pirate, (not a ninja) I think I am deadly against, oh, 99% of people walking the streets with any of my hawks. Those people down the street in that convalescent home? Oh, yeah, I could take most of them. But, I'll probably never know. I just like hawks.

 

[762 shooter]

Oh, a spike hawk is just as useful as a hammer poll. I believe that most hawk enthusiasts think that the spike is for braining someone. It makes a great awl for large holes, it will gouge out a nice groove, (it is superior to a knife for this). A hammer poll will hammer.

 

[Burningcort]

Nuke41,
Saying the spike on a tomahawk is 'more of a danger to the user' comes across like the anti-gunner philosophy that says having a gun in the home is more of a danger to the occupants than it would be to an intruder.

I'm talking about real world military use, not sitting around your house waiting for someone to attack you. The sheaths these come with wouldnt last long with all the push, pull, and stress of jumping in and out of vehicles, and the assorted banging around; wont take long before the spike is sticking through the sheath, and perhaps into the owner or someone else. Over to the mall ninjas to correct me.

mall ninja is an insult....I caried a spike hawk for work as an entry tool and two of my best buds carried them in the desert....great for breaching is that spike....just because you disagree you dont need to insult...

 

[vector001]

Nuke41,

I'm talking about real world military use, not sitting around your house waiting for someone to attack you. The sheaths these come with wouldnt last long with all the push, pull, and stress of jumping in and out of vehicles, and the assorted banging around; wont take long before the spike is sticking through the sheath, and perhaps into the owner or someone else.

nukey,

i agree!

but you are saying a sheath issue is the fault of the hawk, and confusing it with the hawk characteristics - no different than the hazards of any weapon - don't point it at yourself and keep control of it. - i presume they still teach weapons control in the military, as they did me, in the Beloved Corps.

simply get a better carrying system.

(BTW - i don't remember any Mall Ninjas at Quantico, maybe you can point the way for me. TIA.) :thumbup:

vec

 

[vector001]

Vec, did someone call you an amateur?

don't blame them, they are probably just away from family or something.

we know what their opinions are worth, if no one else does, brother.

I just like hawks.

amen.

they are about to get better too.

........

brother mclemore - i love what brother emerson did with that knife-spike that you mentioned - i think you are going to see more of that concept in the near future.

hawks have so far to go still, design-wise, while retaining their character and benefits as both weapons and tools.

.............

to the guys who love their poll hawks - i sure love mine too, especially with a chisel that can approach the utility tasks of the spike - once that spike is executed in an improved way though, i think opinions might shift dramatically.

your bud,

vec

 

[Whiskey River]

What????

the thrust will beat the cut every time.
The spartans and romans knew this and designed their weapons and tactics around that fact.
I have a bolo made by a master in the philippines,same deal.
The thrust is more important,the cut is gravy.
A good weapon does both.
For a tool that can double as a weapon the hawk is where it's at.
For a pure weapon even of the same overall length, something that can thrust as well as cut is more effective for offense and defense and much harder to
defend against because of the long unsharpened handle on the hawk.

The best of both worlds?
A bowie,dagger or gladius in the lead hand and a hawk in the rear.
Thrust and cut.
Two sharp edges to protect the hawk's handle from being grabbed.
The rear guard protects the hand holding the hawk from "defanging the snake"
the hawk's bone breaking power protected by the more balanced weapon's speed and finesse.

"the quickest path to an opening is in a straight line"

imagine the muhammad ali vs george forman fight if they both had equal sized edged cut and thrust weapons instead of boxing gloves.
Ali would have won in seconds.

 

[762 shooter]

What????

Gives a whole new meaning to "thrust and cut".
And "best of both worlds". I suppose...
Aww, hell, that whole paragraph is full of, double en tenders.

The best of both worlds?
A Bowie,dagger or Gladius in the lead hand and a Hawk in the rear.
Thrust and cut.
Two sharp edges to protect the Hawk's handle from being grabbed.
The rear guard protects the hand holding the Hawk from "defanging the snake"
The Hawk's bone breaking power protected by the more balanced weapon's speed and finesse.