Why all the Benchmade stain?

[Dorito Monk]

I think its comes down to, what people perceive as problems. I have pretty realistic expectations when it comes to mid-priced folders. Other members will settle for nothing less than perfection. They want Sebenza-like finish and tolerances at the Griptilians pricepoint.

Speaking for myself only, I don't expect miracles from Benchmade, but I do expect them to put out a product that could stand up to the offerings of other production knife makers.

I bought a 520 Presidio (a fairly expensive little sucker by my standards) a while ago and, long story short, it had shortcomings a-plenty. That didn't inspire me to go buy a second one by any means. I realise that lots of people own dozens of benchmades are lots of people are totally satisfied with them, but that doesn't really change the fact that that knife spent more time being sent away for warranty issues than it did being used. A $150+ knife that was, by all accounts, described as a rugged blade was sent back (once to the retailer and twice to the manufacturer) for warranty issues - first to fix some irreparable up-and-down blade play, and the next two instances to have broken omega springs replaced. (Two trips to the factory and that blade play never did get fixed.) Now, I didn't expect it to be perfect, but it would have been nice if it didn't have blade play and didn't break after a couple of months of light use.

Compare that to some of the knives I've bought since then: For 100$, I got a Hogue EX-01 with just about the same materials as the Presidio, better fit and finish by a country mile, and I haven't had a problem with it. For 80$, I got a Manix 2 with the same blade steel as the Presidio, a lock that actually works, and, though I used the hell out of the thing, I never even had to disassemble the thing much less send it in for repairs. For 70$ I got a Kershaw RAM which had tighter tolerances than any of the benchmades I've handled to date - I've been using it like a madman and it still shows no sign of blade play or wear.

I understand that some people have lots of benchmades and they have lots of good things to say about them, but try to see it from this perspective: If I can get a 70$ Kershaw or an 80$ Spyderco that, from my own experience, will outperform a 150$ benchmade in every way, what draw is there for me to go try another benchmade? I might like some of their designs, but objectively speaking, I don't really see the point.

There's no need for anyone to go and get offended by this post, I'm just putting my experience out there - from the perspective of a 'Benchmade Stainer'

 

[CID25]

I've had 3 benchmades, a griptilian, a mini barrage and a 710. Of these, the first two were impeccable, but the 710 had an uneven grind, a rattling stop pin and the blade hit the backspacer on closing. I was dissapointed in that but they were all quick fixes and now that I have the issues staightened out, the 710 is one of my favorites

 

[Sulaco]

To Ankerson and the others who've posted similar comments re: expecting perfection from mass-produced knives;

I can assure all of you (except for those who are too dumb to know better) that had you been in my place, you would have also sent the knife back. I will go so far as to say that not only would you have done so, but you also would have sent it back the second time, having received it back from repair in worse shape than it came to you in the first place.

I see no point in re-hashing what has already been posted, but needless to say, Benchmade dropped the ball in initial quality control by allowing the knife to leave the factory and make it to the vendor, thereby being sold, they dropped the ball by not fixing it properly when the purchaser, having spent his own time and money for postage, sent it back, and they dropped the ball by not honoring his request to contact them prior to sending it back to be sure an acceptable repair was performed (obviously it was not).

Yes, they did indeed resolve the issue in the end (well, we hope they will, they don't get it back the second time until it arrives tomorrow), but it's sad that such a thing had to occur before it was made right.

Is this par for the course? I would say not. In my own personal experience, this is definitely the exception rather than the rule. Did this actually happen? Oh yes, I have pictures and my word to prove as much.

So all of this to say, of all the Benchmade knives I've owned, I've had problems with exactly 3. Each one went back, the first two being returned promptly and repaired to my satisfaction, the third, well, not so much. I can't count the number I own or have owned that have had no problems.

So take that how you will, but the facts are, no company is beyond reproach, and no company is beyond resolving their own issues.

 

[A.P.F.]

@ Dorito Monk - No offence taken, as I think your post was informative and well reasoned. I guess this falls into the YMMV category, as I have different brands and models that most rave about and I curse at, so I definitely accept the validity of various people's experiences.

@ Sulaco - Well said.

 

[Ankerson]

To Ankerson and the others who've posted similar comments re: expecting perfection from mass-produced knives;

I can assure all of you (except for those who are too dumb to know better) that had you been in my place, you would have also sent the knife back. I will go so far as to say that not only would you have done so, but you also would have sent it back the second time, having received it back from repair in worse shape than it came to you in the first place.

I see no point in re-hashing what has already been posted, but needless to say, Benchmade dropped the ball in initial quality control by allowing the knife to leave the factory and make it to the vendor, thereby being sold, they dropped the ball by not fixing it properly when the purchaser, having spent his own time and money for postage, sent it back, and they dropped the ball by not honoring his request to contact them prior to sending it back to be sure an acceptable repair was performed (obviously it was not).

Yes, they did indeed resolve the issue in the end (well, we hope they will, they don't get it back the second time until it arrives tomorrow), but it's sad that such a thing had to occur before it was made right.

Is this par for the course? I would say not. In my own personal experience, this is definitely the exception rather than the rule. Did this actually happen? Oh yes, I have pictures and my word to prove as much.

So all of this to say, of all the Benchmade knives I've owned, I've had problems with exactly 3. Each one went back, the first two being returned promptly and repaired to my satisfaction, the third, well, not so much. I can't count the number I own or have owned that have had no problems.

So take that how you will, but the facts are, no company is beyond reproach, and no company is beyond resolving their own issues.

Well yeah if there is a real QC issue or other problems like have been reported, I don't have any problem with those and we all want to hear about them because they are REAL PROBLEMS. :thumbup:

It's the other little non issue little girl crying stuff that isn't realistic for the price they paid that I believe some of us are very tired of, those types need to go play with their baby dolls and leave the knives to the adults IMO...

We have seen a ton of that stuff going around lately unfortunately...

 

[00ChevyScott]

I hate all of you guys. Started reading this thread while handling my BM 950 Rift and cut the CRAP out of my thumb factory edge too


I'd say it's sharp

 

[RevDevil]

Well yeah if there is a real QC issue or other problems like have been reported, I don't have any problem with those and we all want to hear about them because they are REAL PROBLEMS. :thumbup:

It's the other little non issue little girl crying stuff that isn't realistic for the price they paid that I believe some of us are very tired of, those types need to go play with their baby dolls and leave the knives to the adults IMO...

We have seen a ton of that stuff going around lately unfortunately...

Well said
I will add that threads don't need to be all sunshine and cotton candy all the time, but it helps when a problem is posted after a proactive response is taken in lieu of any real QC issue. Straight up whining and crying about something while not making any choice as to what to do about it makes the forums a much less enjoyable place. Just sayin

I hate all of you guys. Started reading this thread while handling my BM 950 Rift and cut the CRAP out of my thumb factory edge too

I'd say it's sharp

I had not cut myself in at least 1 year until I carried the M390 TSEK for a couple weeks straight. I was flipping the knife closed and it caught my pinky. It looked like my finger explolded.
They are sharp, but not as sharp as I can make them

 

[Ankerson]

Well said
I will add that threads don't need to be all sunshine and cotton candy all the time, but it helps when a problem is posted after a proactive response is taken in lieu of any real QC issue. Straight up whining and crying about something while not making any choice as to what to do about it makes the forums a much less enjoyable place. Just sayin

Things aren't always Candy and Rose Petals that's for sure..

I think a few bad ones can slip though with any company really.

As you said it would be to nice to hear something like this:

I called (Enter Company Here) about (Enter Knife here) about (Enter Issues here and or photos here) and this is what they are going to do for me to correct it.

Now that would be a good informative thread. :thumbup:

That would read a lot better than a lot of what we have been seeing around lately for sure......

It really does bring the quality of the forums down I agree...

 

[Steven Andrews]

I have 30+ Benchmade Axis Locks and have noticed that the quality has taken a dive in the last couple of years. I now see blunt tips, scratchy grind marks, uneven bevels and rough pocket clips.

They don't make them like they used to:

 

[Tostig]

It seems that lately there has been a rash of Benchmade malcontents on the forums. I have 15 Benchmades and 13 of those are Axis lock. None of the 15 show any problems with fit 'n finish, nor did they arrive dull. Is it me that is tripping over reality or am I just lucky?

As long as I am rambling on, I think that if I see one more post that complains about the 'plasticy' handle on a Griptilian, I will scream. Cowboy up people, it is a tool. If it performs well as a knife, what is the problem? [/rant]

My last knife purchase was an expensive ( for me ) Lfti. I've been meaning to start a thread bashing BM and extolling them for such a great knife that was in the worst condition I have ever bought a NIB knife of any brand , worse than CRKT even...

Since you ask , I may as well get it out here and now.

I bought my BM Lfti three fridays ago , after lusting over it for months I called my good budy who works at the gun range and asked him if he got 'my knife' in yet , he said yea and that if I buy it today he will give me the 'buddy discount'. I got it for a little over $150.
Considering my disposable income has all but vanished and I'm trying to save up for a wedding , $150 is a lot for me right now , so whatever I buy better damn well be worth it !
When he grabbed the box and set it on the counter my heart was pacing in anticipation of this new beaut , only to open the box , take the knife out and discover it had serious blade play in all four directions ! side to side and lock to hex pin. He has this smirk on his face because he knew I was gonna say 'double U tee eff' is goin on here.. He noticed it too while getting it ready for me.
Now I do not have pictures of this , you will have to take my word for it as in why would I bother to make this up about a knife I just paid so much for....
After I stopped cursing Benchmade , I realized this wasn't anything a few minutes of fiddlin with the Torx driver couldn't fix , or I would not have bought it in the first place.
I began to look for other would be problems but could not find any , so after some chit-chat I paid for my knife and went home.
That night I spent maybe 45 minutes working on it , perfecting the action to silky-smooth , solid in all four directions.
One thing I noticed was that the pivot screw was 'loctited' into a ridiculiusly loose position , there is no way this was 'just an accident' , or that someone over at BM was 'having a bad day' , or any other of the myriad of excuses the Benchmade fanboys come up with someone rightfully complains about a shoddy BM product.... This was inexcusable. This was not a $60 Mini Grip , this is one of their nicer models and when you pay that much you expect the very highest of quality.
Say the same quality that KERSHAW and SPYDERCO have in every knife you buy from them. Seriously I have bought $30 Kershaws that were in far , FAR better shape than this knife was in , especially considering it was New In Box.

Then I thought , wait a second... They market these knives to LEO's and Soldiers... what if some Marines wife bought this for her man and sent it to BFE for him to use and this Marine was not Torx savvy , he would be left with an utterly useless knife.... Yea a Titanium framelock with CMP-M4 steel that has more wobble than a Webble... Useless !@ How unforgivable on BM's part.
Then I thought , I wonder what other excuses the BM apologists will come up with ? Send it back ?? Since BM's CS is "soo great" ?
Not an Option... No sir ! Not when I pay this much , in this economy, for this knife ! I'm not sending it away for a month and not even get a simple apology in return , not when I paid for it fair and square. I want to be able to use it the moment I take it from the box.

No problem.. like I said 45 minutes of my time later it was in working shape aside from the completly... dull... edge. Dull as a butter knife. Not just a case of an obtuse angle that wasn't very sharp ( although it was the dictionary defintion of an obtuse edge !). So many hours later of stone work and a bit of careful belt sanding and it has a good , working edge.

Oh , did I mention yet that my Lfti is First Production 215/1000 ? One would think that a first production would come in a little better condition. It was not that the knife was handled over and over and over , my buddy just got it in from their distributer. It looked untouched and unmolested.
There is no ecuse whatsoever for this knife reaching the consumer in the shape that it did. I have never had this issues with Kershaw or Spyderco , or Emerson. With Benchmade ? this is knife #3 that was in pee-poor shape upon purchase...

Tsk tsk tsk Benchmade...

Say and think what you will about my post , I swear that all of the above is FACT , I also swear that Benchmade has pretty much lost a customer and will not get a single recommendation from me in the future , not when they are satisifed with putting out a third rate product of first rate materials and to do it on Mr. Lums last designed production knife to boot ! Go figure....

Benchmade can pound sand for all I care.


Now , all of that said , once all my time was put into this knife , it is quite a nice tool. Who gets the thanks though ? Me , or Benchmade... Afterall I'm the one that , once again corrected their mistakes.

Maybe next time I buy a new bike , I will have to re-work the gears before I ride it. Maybe next time I buy a new costly firearm , I will have to polish the feed ramp before firing it...

Yea.

Tostig

oh and yes , the Mini-Grip does have CHEAP feeling handles.

 

[Siggyhk]

Well, I believe Benchmade makes the best knives in thier price range. But then again, I think liner-locks are dangerous and that a quality knife can be a good option as a defensive weapon, so you might want to just ignore what I've got to say.

Benchmade doesn't have a forum here and I think that might contribute to why people express thier feelings, good or bad, about them in the general knife area so frequently. I don't care much for Kershaw, but I check in the Spyderco and Emerson forums here occationally. Doing so I see a fair amount of negitive issues with thier knives and customer service (both of which I've personally experienced with both companies). -You have to look through lots of posts from the truest fanboys around first, but the problems are there.
And of course Benchmade doesn't have someone from the company patroling these forums to rub peoples backs and to ask for input from customers; as if the companys that do actually care about anything beyond thier own financial gain. And they don't have anyone here to post about all thier hard-core, top-secret, military customers. If they offered these things like other some other companies do, I think people would be more forgiving of them, just like they so often are with some others companies.

I don't doubt Benchmades come from the factory messed up sometimes. But if you think other companies don't have similar problems on similarly priced knives, you're wrong. If Benchmade hired some people that knew how to sharpen a knife most of these negative post wouldn't exist in the first place. Why they don't, I can't say, but it seems pretty foolish to me.

 

[Drover]

I have a 515 Rant, 741 Onslaught and my favorite 950 Rift. All came screaming sharp and perfect in every way. Although I own a bunch of Bucks, I probably will never buy another brand than Benchmade. Been doing the knife thing for 50+ years and between Buck and Benchmade see no reason to buy any other brand. Why mess with perfection?

 

[HuntBomb]

I had to use my Torx driver and sharpening stones because BM was mean to me! (((
Boooooo-hoooooooo
LOVE MY BENCHMADEs

 

[Tostig]

I had to use my Torx driver and sharpening stones because BM was mean to me! (((
Boooooo-hoooooooo
LOVE MY BENCHMADEs

You totally missed the point , hoss.... You have nothing more thoughtful to say ?

Siggyhk - I have purchased more Kershaw than I care to count in the last five years , I have purchased four Benchmade folders in the last five years. Two of the four BM's I purchased had numerous problems out of the box while not one of the Kershaw folders I bought had a problem.
I hate to be cliche' but...do the math I'm not making this up , it's not a rant . Why would I waste my time trashing a company if I really didn't have a beef with them.

End result for me is that Benchmade needs to step it up , period.

As the old saying goes , money talks and BS walks - in this economy , with this much to choose from, a company cannot afford to drop the ball continuously. If we did that in my line of work , I would be collecting cans on the side of the road.

Tostig

 

[Siggyhk]

I don't disbelieve you, Tostig. And my previous post wasn't specifically directed at you, but more of a general thought.
Still, there are people here that would say they've bought several knives from Benchmade without a problem. -Would you believe they're not being truthful or have a reason to pump up a perticular company? There are people who would say the same for Spyderco and Emerson. There are also people who'll report problems from all these companies too.
I will say that I've not seen many problems reported about Kershaw though, but they don't have as much of my attention at this point either.
I wouldn't be totally shocked if I bought a new Benchmade and it wasn't 100%. But personally speaking, I've had good luck with them and more problems and lesser service from the other popular companies. I like the fact they're primarily a US company, I like the Axis lock, I like most of thier designs, and I know that they have a great warranty department right now.
Truth be told, I can't even remember the last "new" knife I bought, so maybe I was supposed to sit this discussion out

 

[RevDevil]

Things aren't always Candy and Rose Petals that's for sure..

I think a few bad ones can slip though with any company really.

As you said it would be to nice to hear something like this:

I called (Enter Company Here) about (Enter Knife here) about (Enter Issues here and or photos here) and this is what they are going to do for me to correct it.

Now that would be a good informative thread. :thumbup:

That would read a lot better than a lot of what we have been seeing around lately for sure......

It really does bring the quality of the forums down I agree...

That is what I'm talking about, exactly. Most threads regarding QC stuff are these pictures of the knife in question, followed by a vague, borderline trollish dialogue that reads something approximate to this:

Look at the *specific knife part* on this. Do you think this is right? Would you pay $XXX.XX for this? Why can't "specific company" make a better knife?

I truly understand that at times, a steamer gets past QC, it's happened to several of us. Whatever happened to looking at the knife when you buy it and then make a decision right then and there, "Yes, this one is a keeper!" or "Nope, this POS is headed back to where it came from!".

By all means, if the knife is not what you want, you should know this within the first minute or 2 of looking the knife over. Take some proactive steps to resolve the situation. If you must ask, then do it in a way that will not incite the anger and rage of fanboys and haters at the same time. That is the responsibility of every person that takes the decision to start a thread.

Most companies will try and sell a knife with good fit and finish, it's their name on the line. Most companies want to have their name associated with old school quality. It takes a long time to build a reputation like that, and only a few instances to destroy it. However, there is one company I know of that will admit to and apparently be proud of poor fit and finish, Benchmade isn't it but they could be more consistent in the eyes of many.

 

[Tote412]

I have a griptilian. I like the knife. Yes it does have a cheap feeling handle. I have gotten used to it, but have not grown to like it. Will I buy another benchmade in the future? Maybe, maybe not. I do like the axis lock and have no other issues with the knife. The prices are the only thing that will probably keep me from buying many more. I buy users only, I can't really justify paying more than $100 for a tacticool knife.

 

[A.P.F.]

You totally missed the point , hoss.... You have nothing more thoughtful to say ?

Siggyhk - I have purchased more Kershaw than I care to count in the last five years , I have purchased four Benchmade folders in the last five years. Two of the four BM's I purchased had numerous problems out of the box while not one of the Kershaw folders I bought had a problem.
I hate to be cliche' but...do the math I'm not making this up , it's not a rant . Why would I waste my time trashing a company if I really didn't have a beef with them.

End result for me is that Benchmade needs to step it up , period.

As the old saying goes , money talks and BS walks - in this economy , with this much to choose from, a company cannot afford to drop the ball continuously. If we did that in my line of work , I would be collecting cans on the side of the road.

Tostig

Tostig, I have no problem whatsoever as to the integrity of your observations and I doubt anyone else does either. You were fortunate to have the skills to correct the problem(s) for yourself - others may not be as fortunate. A company learns more from constructive criticism than accolades from the masses and it is with that thought in mind, that despite my enjoyment of Benchmade knives I feel that your experience should be shared with them. It can only benefit us all.

 

[cziv]

I have 30+ Benchmade Axis Locks and have noticed that the quality has taken a dive in the last couple of years. I now see blunt tips, scratchy grind marks, uneven bevels and rough pocket clips.

They don't make them like they used to:

Benchmade was once my numero uno folder company but they seem to getting a liitle more crappy. It's almost subliminal because to me it's happening slowly.

I've sold them all off except for my beloved 710 D2 and 940 S30V. I don't even carry them anymore but I like 'em! I've bought couple of Grips one from each collaborater and they WERE crappy and cheap so if I'm going to drop $60 $70 it's going to be on a Spyderco or Kershaw who I think I ignored for too long. $70 will buy you a nice Kershaw or Spydie.

I've sold off these diapointments: 10700 Nagara, 2 Grips, 890 Torrent, Large Barrage and an extra 940 that I ended up with (long story).

After many years, I still can't get an axis lock to flick nicely w/o side to side blade play. Lok-tite, plumbing tape didn't help a bit. One smidge tighter than side to side play and the d*mn blades are 1/2 frozen and won't swing freely - one smidge looser and the play is back again.

I guess I just have bad luck with the knife company that started me collectiong >$100 folders.

 

[Tostig]

Tostig, I have no problem whatsoever as to the integrity of your observations and I doubt anyone else dose either. You were fortunate to have the skills to correct the problem(s) for yourself - others may not be as fortunate. A company learns more from constructive criticism than accolades from the masses and it is with that thought in mind, that despite my enjoyment of Benchmade knives I feel that your experience should be shared with them. It can only benefit us all.

Oh buddy, my only irritation was huntbomb and his lame reply. I seriously considered what to do about this knife - as stated the problems are fixed although the edge is a work in progress to my liking , the edge didn't even bug me near as much as how sloppy the knife was thrown together. Would it make a difference to email Benchmade ? I doubt it seriously.

As I type the knife is in my pocket , as it has been since I corrected it. I love the knife overall ! Not because it's a Benchmade though , because it is a sweet knife.

My point in taking the time to post that long post was to say that there are real reasons out there a company loses a customer. In my work we see it all the time , we get old customers begging us to service them because the company that promised them the moon at a bargain rate did not and could not deliver as we do.

I liken any other company to ours. If you please folks you get the business , if you make enough folks mad and arrogantly defend your decisions you will lose like nothing else until you can no longer keep the power on.

I would think in today's crap economy that an American company would really strive to make sure each and every product it puts out is top notch and worth the customers dollar. Otherwise I like many , will happily take my business to those I trust.


Tostig