Why all the Opinel rave?

[stabman]

By the way, I've been wanting to ask this... and since someone has resurrected this thread, Stabman how you feeling about that Grohmann you bought back in March. I've been wanting to get one.

Still liking it so far.
It's good for when you want to carry a decent sized fixed blade that isn't too heavy.
It also is one of those handles that works well whether you are using bare hands or wearing bulky gloves. :thumbup:

 

[walleyeguy7]

Very cheap and VERY high performance cutting! Best cutter out of all of my very expensive knives. It's just the most practical pocket knife. Try a #10, I like the stainless so it won't rust.

 

[painkilleraz]

They are light, like moraknivs- and very durable.

For those who actually spend lots of time in the bush, they are essential parts of ones kit.

This doesnt mean I dont have my condors, spydercos, etc etc - simply that all of my kits and cars have numerous opinel #8s and morakniv companions

 

[Sosa]

I guess they are great knives but not for everyone. I gifted a few years ago and the last time I saw them one was rusting on the bottom of a tackle box the other a toolbox. You have to want to use them.

 

[G. Scott H.]

I find most Opinels too small. Not so the #13. :thumbup:

 

[JackstrawIII]

I feel about Opinels the same way I feel about Moras: they're a fine gateway and a neat piece, but anyone who says they perform better than a good quality knife by a reputable maker using modern steels and materials is lying to themselves. Like a Mora it's a great value, maybe even the best value... but best quality? Really?

There are always people who are trying to get the best bang for their buck. With that said, Opinel has a place in the market... but not in my pocket.

 

[Lycosa]

Opinels are not, "cheap." They are inexpensive.

 

[pinnah]

I feel about Opinels the same way I feel about Moras: they're a fine gateway and a neat piece, but anyone who says they perform better than a good quality knife by a reputable maker using modern steels and materials is lying to themselves. Like a Mora it's a great value, maybe even the best value... but best quality? Really?

IMO, discussions of quality are always second place to discussions of design. I don't care how high quality a sports car is when I need to drive on a logging road.

There are 3 aspects of the Opinel's design that have real merit: the blade geometry, the blade steel and the joint/handle design.

IMO, the geometry of the Opinel makes it among the most versatile that I've used. It's thin enough to slice well and the slight convex grind allows it work wood better than any full flat grind knife that I've used. Someday, some manufacturer of more expensive modern knives is going to knock off the Opinel grind (and tout it as an R&D success - where R&D means rip-off and duplicate) but until that day, if you want this great blade geometry, you need to buy an Opinel.

With respect to blade steels... there is a never ending and insoluble argument here between fans of fine carbide steels and fans of modern carbide rich steels. I won't try to win that argument or change any minds on that topic. Suffice it to say that there are a large number of knife manufacturers committed to fine carbide steels and huge numbers of people who prefer blades with fine grained steels over those with carbides. Toughness and ease of sharpening, or at least perceptions of these, are often quoted as reasons. Again, I'm not arguing this one way or the other. While some may argue that all knife users should prefer more expensive carbide rich steels, the reality is that many people, including people who have money to spend and knowledge and experience with steels prefer fine carbide steels. This is a design preference and it trumps "quality" comparisons to other types of carbide rich steels. The point here is that when you compare Opinel's Sandvik 12C27 other other fine grained steels, it's very, very hard to find a better fine carbide steel.

With respect to the lock, joint and handle design and noting that hte lock is NOT designed to prevent the blade from closing, the simple joint is incredibly durable with respect to hard cutting and hard lateral forces. It's rare to find an Opinel that's been damaged to the point of having meaningful blade play or wobble, much less to break the joint. The joint also stands up better than most designs to being fouled with dirt and sand. And the handle's design has stood the test of time and generally gives many hands a good grip with a minimum of hot spots (and what hot spots exist for an individual can be easily sanded off). Lastly, the design is very light weight. Combined, the design (not the build quality and not hte material quality) make it a very durable and comfortable hard use working knife that weighs very, very little.

Taken together, just on the basis of design (not quality), the Opinel is a hard knife to beat.

Can you suggest a modern alternative that
- has the same or similar geometry
- is as durable and robust at the joint
- is as comfortable in hand
- is as light

 

[scubisino]

Because you just can´t have only one... This just arrive from amazon... No.8 Garden Knife.. such a beauty..

 

[Ankerson]

IMO, discussions of quality are always second place to discussions of design. I don't care how high quality a sports car is when I need to drive on a logging road.

There are 3 aspects of the Opinel's design that have real merit: the blade geometry, the blade steel and the joint/handle design.

IMO, the geometry of the Opinel makes it among the most versatile that I've used. It's thin enough to slice well and the slight convex grind allows it work wood better than any full flat grind knife that I've used. Someday, some manufacturer of more expensive modern knives is going to knock off the Opinel grind (and tout it as an R&D success - where R&D means rip-off and duplicate) but until that day, if you want this great blade geometry, you need to buy an Opinel.

With respect to blade steels... there is a never ending and insoluble argument here between fans of fine carbide steels and fans of modern carbide rich steels. I won't try to win that argument or change any minds on that topic. Suffice it to say that there are a large number of knife manufacturers committed to fine carbide steels and huge numbers of people who prefer blades with fine grained steels over those with carbides. Toughness and ease of sharpening, or at least perceptions of these, are often quoted as reasons. Again, I'm not arguing this one way or the other. While some may argue that all knife users should prefer more expensive carbide rich steels, the reality is that many people, including people who have money to spend and knowledge and experience with steels prefer fine carbide steels. This is a design preference and it trumps "quality" comparisons to other types of carbide rich steels. The point here is that when you compare Opinel's Sandvik 12C27 other other fine grained steels, it's very, very hard to find a better fine carbide steel.

With respect to the lock, joint and handle design and noting that hte lock is NOT designed to prevent the blade from closing, the simple joint is incredibly durable with respect to hard cutting and hard lateral forces. It's rare to find an Opinel that's been damaged to the point of having meaningful blade play or wobble, much less to break the joint. The joint also stands up better than most designs to being fouled with dirt and sand. And the handle's design has stood the test of time and generally gives many hands a good grip with a minimum of hot spots (and what hot spots exist for an individual can be easily sanded off). Lastly, the design is very light weight. Combined, the design (not the build quality and not hte material quality) make it a very durable and comfortable hard use working knife that weighs very, very little.

Taken together, just on the basis of design (not quality), the Opinel is a hard knife to beat.

Can you suggest a modern alternative that
- has the same or similar geometry
- is as durable and robust at the joint
- is as comfortable in hand
- is as light

The peasant knife is what it is called.

It's an inexpensive knife in general, for the most part just about anyone can afford one or 10.

Most of the end results of the geometry and the materials have much more to do with keeping the cost very low than developing a high performance knife as they are not high performance knives.

Thin stock, made from strip steel that is stamped out keeps the cost down, way down compared to other methods of manufacture.

Yes they do happen to cut well due to the thin blade stock, but then so do those $1 kitchen knives for the very same reason, that is a result of keeping cost low as possible, less material used equals lower cost to manufacture.

Yes the low cost steels they use also help keep the cost down as do the other materials used in manufacture.

People tend to like them for various reasons.

Different strokes.

 

[jstrange]

Pinnah,

What do you mean when you say the lock is not meant to keep the blade from closing?

 

[ConBon]

I feel about Opinels the same way I feel about Moras: they're a fine gateway and a neat piece, but anyone who says they perform better than a good quality knife by a reputable maker using modern steels and materials is lying to themselves. Like a Mora it's a great value, maybe even the best value... but best quality? Really?

To me, my mora is my go to and always will be Nothing is as easy to sharpen (I am not unskilled in sharpening), takes an edge as readily, and can cut just as well with a beat up, nicked edge. Sure I could buy a premium scandi knife but I dont have any reason and wouldn't really be able to tell the difference except for handle differences and sheath quality. I surely wouldn't buy a premium scandi then a mora to replace it though. On opinels, thwy really do outperform a LOT of folders in the 10-60 dollar range, and offer a customization with the handle that is much more accessible to people. All you need is a rasp, sandpaper, and some finish to make a grip that suits you, while modern knives are a bit more complex with metal and synthetic handles. Sure it takes more time to open an opi with one hand, but if speed of deployment is an issue nobody should look to a folder if fixed blades are legal to carry.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but like me, a lot of people are just so impressed by the Opi and Mora, and because they are cheap are willing to use it always, that's why they are a cut above a lot of knives.

Connor

 

[pinnah]

Pinnah,

What do you mean when you say the lock is not meant to keep the blade from closing?

Put an Opinel in a padded vice with the blade open and the lock ring engaged and then slowly force the blade shut while watching the lock ring.

What you will see is that the lock ring will first distort and then will pop off (and fly across the room).


Let me put it this way... If you put a strong lock back at a 10 and a normal slip joint at a 1, in terms of resistance to closing forces, the Opinel will be a 2. Yes, it will keep the blade from closing if you bump it. But it won't protect your fingers from closing forces.

On the other hand, where the Opinel shines is it's ability to stay functional after repeated hard cutting (opening) forces. Most modern locks rely either on a stop pin or lock bar and stable pivot and many of them open up and get looser over time. An Opinel will eventually wear down too but IME is much more durable under repeated hard cutting than other lock designs I've used.

 

[pinnah]

Most of the end results of the geometry and the materials have much more to do with keeping the cost very low than developing a high performance knife as they are not high performance knives.

A Lamborghini may be a high performance sports car but it won't make it up a logging road.

You can't get agreement on what is or is not a high performance knife until you define what the performance criteria area and how they match the intended use.

Can you suggest an alternative to the Opinel that
- Has a better cutting geometry and
- Has a more durable joint and
- Has a more dirt/sand resistant joint and
- Weighs less?

All at the same time?

 

[Ankerson]

A Lamborghini may be a high performance sports car but it won't make it up a logging road.

You can't get agreement on what is or is not a high performance knife until you define what the performance criteria area and how they match the intended use.

Can you suggest an alternative to the Opinel that
- Has a better cutting geometry and
- Has a more durable joint and
- Has a more dirt/sand resistant joint and
- Weighs less?

They make Lamborghini ATV's.

You aren't talking about performance, you are talking about basic function, not exactly the same thing.

There are a lot of things that function.

I can cut stuff with a tin can lid so it functions, but that's not saying much....

Even gas station knives function...

 

[pinnah]

They make Lamborghini ATV's.

You aren't talking about performance, you are talking about basic function, not exactly the same thing.

There are a lot of things that function.

I can cut stuff with a tin can lid so it functions, but that's not saying much....

I'll take that as meaning, "No, I can't name another folding knife that combines all of those features at the same time."

Me neither.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The peasant knife is what it is called.

It's an inexpensive knife in general, for the most part just about anyone can afford one or 10.

Most of the end results of the geometry and the materials have much more to do with keeping the cost very low than developing a high performance knife as they are not high performance knives.

Thin stock, made from strip steel that is stamped out keeps the cost down, way down compared to other methods of manufacture.

Yes they do happen to cut well due to the thin blade stock, but then so do those $1 kitchen knives for the very same reason, that is a result of keeping cost low as possible, less material used equals lower cost to manufacture.

Yes the low cost steels they use also help keep the cost down as do the other materials used in manufacture.

People tend to like them for various reasons.

Different strokes.

I tend to agree with you on a lot of things, but this post seems very off-target compared to your usual. Opinels have exceptional cutting geometry regardless of steel selection or cost factors. This comes less from their thin stock (although that does play some role, of course) and much much more to do with the fact that their full convex (yet near-flat) primary grind is brought just shy of zero. It's a very penetrating grind, while most of the $1 kitchen knives exploit thin stock with a hollow grind to minimize materials and grinding time...not even in the same ballpark when it comes to geometry, and you know that well, I'm certain of it. Yes, they're an economy knife with "good" (rather than premium) steel and a simplistic, minimalist design to their construction and locking mechanism, but the heat treatment is good, and the geometry is fantastic. How you establish them as "high performance" or not entirely depends on how you choose to define performance, and on the basis of cutting performance, there aren't many production knives on the market at any price point that seriously compete with Opinels in that particular department, and most of those that do are culinary knives of some shape and form.

 

[Ankerson]

I tend to agree with you on a lot of things, but this post seems very off-target compared to your usual. Opinels have exceptional cutting geometry regardless of steel selection or cost factors. This comes less from their thin stock (although that does play some role, of course) and much much more to do with the fact that their full convex (yet near-flat) primary grind is brought just shy of zero. It's a very penetrating grind, while most of the $1 kitchen knives exploit thin stock with a hollow grind to minimize materials and grinding time...not even in the same ballpark when it comes to geometry, and you know that well, I'm certain of it. Yes, they're an economy knife with "good" (rather than premium) steel and a simplistic, minimalist design to their construction and locking mechanism, but the heat treatment is good, and the geometry is fantastic. How you establish them as "high performance" or not entirely depends on how you choose to define performance, and on the basis of cutting performance, there aren't many production knives on the market at any price point that seriously compete with Opinels in that particular department, and most of those that do are culinary knives of some shape and form.

The HT is not really all that great from what I personally have seen, I have a couple here, but for the price point I wasn't expecting much either.

I will say this again..... The geometry is a result of keeping the cost low as possible, not the other way around, you have cause and effect here.

That design is very old and was designed as what it is, a peasant knife (very low cost), that is something you can't get around.

Don't make the knives into more than they really are.

 

[sodak]

A Lamborghini may be a high performance sports car but it won't make it up a logging road.

You can't get agreement on what is or is not a high performance knife until you define what the performance criteria area and how they match the intended use.

Can you suggest an alternative to the Opinel that
- Has a better cutting geometry and
- Has a more durable joint and
- Has a more dirt/sand resistant joint and
- Weighs less?

All at the same time?

I can think of several SAK's that fill that bill. A nice sodbuster would work as well. The durable joint and dirt/sand resistance are somewhat subjective though.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The HT is not really all that great from what I personally have seen, I have a couple here, but for the price point I wasn't expecting much either.

They're on the softer/tougher side, but harder than a lot of more premium knives out there, by the same token. They're just a fine-grain, low-carbide simple steel--regardless of if you go with their carbon or stainless offering.

I will say this again..... The geometry is a result of keeping the cost low as possible, not the other way around, you have cause and effect here.

And you'll be absolutely incorrect, again. Please describe in what manner the geometry is a cost-cutting measure. They bring their grinds thin and almost to a zero grind. While convex, it is a very shallow convex. The only thing that saves expense in their grinding is their thin stock, but that's a byproduct of their net geometry--if they increased the stock thickness then the total geometry of the grind would also thicken. Cost savings are a part of other aspects of the knife, but the grind is not one of them.

That design is very old and was designed as what it is, a peasant knife (very low cost), that is something you can't get around.

And yet effective design need not be expensive. What Opinel has done is build their design around simplicity. Extraneous features are, for the most part, stripped away. They use a simple slotted wood handle that's turned on an automated copy lathe, a pin for a pivot, and a press-formed collar and locking ring. All of this yields a knife of very minimalistic construction, and that simplifies the manufacturing and assembly process and eases automation, as well as reducing tooling costs due to the interchangeable nature of many of their components and their volume of production. That doesn't mean that they don't cut well. You can easily make a more expensive knife that is lower performance in most respects.

Don't make the knives into more than they really are.

I'm not. Don't make them into less than they really are, either. I'd be keen to know exactly what makes you consider them to not be "high performance" in their geometry. What is it about their geometry that causes them, in your opinion, not to perform highly? What production knives do you consider to have a higher performance geometry, and in what respects? In what context of use? Because I'm really quite confused as to how you came to this conclusion.