Why are esee knives so expensive?

[BigBert]

But if they produce a quality product that one likes, and at a reasonable price, where's the beef? Do we base our purchase solely on the prospect that something is likely to go wrong? I still buy Schrade and Camillus knives knowing full well they aren't warranted. It is the quality that earned my respect, not the warranty.

Then when someone asks why ESEE knives are so expensive, why does everyone chime in about the great warranty? I remember reading an old ESEE vs Becker thread where someone said "Becker sells great knives, ESEE sells a great warranty". ESEE makes a quality product, no argument there, but I think a lot of the price you pay is for that warranty. I personally do not like their handles, and I have also been turned off by reading some of Jeff Randalls posts on BF as well as the jungletraining forum.

 

[BigBert]

Well then, it's not really a "No Questions Asked" policy, is it? More of a gimmick that means "we'll brag about it to get your attention, but only actually warranty what we feel like". (I'm only half-joking here)

FWIW, I completely agree that throwing knives is idiotic and should not be covered by warranty unless the knife is specifically built for throwing... nor can a company warranty against "normal wear and tear" or even rust because, guess what, that's exactly what happens when you use a knife.

Dillon Precision is the only company I have come across that offers a true "No BS Lifetime Warranty" and also warrants against normal wear and tear. If you think ESEE has a great warranty and great customer service, buy a Dillon.

 

[The Mastiff]

I personally split through two or three cords of doug fir and maple with my Junglas, plus dozens of bushcraft weekends before it needed to be sharpened... When I finally sharpened it, it took all of 15 minutes on my edge pro to take out every roll and imperfection. 1095, especially with ESEE's excellent heat treat, is amazing.

I believe the 15 minutes to sharpen as it's 1095 and not that hard but I have to call bull on splitting two or three cords of douglas fir and maple with your junglas.

Having had to heat a house in Michigan with wood, as well as splitting for others and even selling wood I know how long it took me to cut a cord of wood under the best conditions with a splitting maul. Heck, with a hydraulic splitter and a crew of three, three cords of wood is a big job. To cut a full two or three cords of wood with a knife by batoning would take you years. From woodburning.org a cord is:

A full cord of cordwood, split or unsplit and stacked should measure 4 feet deep by 4 feet high by 8 feet long.

That is two 4X8 stacks. ( 4 foot logs won't fit in most fireplaces so logs are usually cut down from 4 foot naturally, making that 4 foot of wood into 2 stacks, not one.) 2 cords= 4 - 4X8 stacks of wood 3 cords = 6 - 4X8 stacks of wood. That's a lot of wood even with powered equipment, dry wood and best conditions= dry and frozen. The wood splits easiest in those conditions. Two years seasoning before splitting is best, but you make do with what you have. Frozen, wet and knotty can be like splitting iron. There will be some like that in 3 cords of wood. Not the job for any knife certainly.

 

[james terrio]

Dillon Precision is the only company I have come across that offers a true "No BS Lifetime Warranty" and also warrants against normal wear and tear. If you think ESEE has a great warranty and great customer service, buy a Dillon.

I see your point. I doubt many people are field-dressing dirty animals, digging holes and chopping/splitting knotty kindling with a reloading rig or super-precise powder scale

 

[shqxk]

What's your point? Many more custom makers use extremely complex tool and stainless steels.

What I want to say is 1095 ain't cheap junk steel, even the finest maker prefer 1095 for some of their thousands dollars piece.

Obviously there are also many custom makers who prefer stainless, I never say stainless is not good or anything.

I would like to know what is your 'extremely complex tool' though...

 

[james terrio]

What I want to say is 1095 ain't cheap junk steel, even the finest maker prefer 1095 for some of their thousands dollars piece.

Sure, and they have very good reasons for that. Also, I don't think anyone called 1095 "junk". But it is cheap (inexpensive).

I would like to know what is your 'extremely complex tool' though...

I'm speaking of high-alloy 2nd and 3rd generation powder tool steels like Elmax, CPM-110V, CTS-XHP, etc. The alloying and heat-treatment of such steels alone is far more complex (and costly) than 1095 and the like, never mind the manufacturing and machining processes.

 

[BigBert]

I see your point. I doubt many people are field-dressing dirty animals, digging holes and chopping/splitting knotty kindling with a reloading rig or super-precise powder scale

No, but I bet over a 20 year period the handle of that 550 gets pulled a whole lot more than someones ESEE 4 gets used....
And things with many moving parts will require more maintenance/replacement of parts than a simple (albeit well made) chunk of steel will. Personally, I am more impressed with a company the warrants a complex machine that WILL break than I am one that warrants a product with zero moving parts that will most likely never break.

 

[james terrio]

...a product with zero moving parts that will most likely never break.

Again, I see your point, but I think you're missing mine. I've never broken a knife except on purpose or doing something really dumb. It fact, it's virtually impossible to break any decent knife when using it to cut and slice stuff... but people do all sorts of "extreme" and sometimes downright stupid things with knives all the time. Like it or not, that has become the norm.

 

[skyhorse]

No, but I bet over a 20 year period the handle of that 550 gets pulled a whole lot more than someones ESEE 4 gets used....
And things with many moving parts will require more maintenance/replacement of parts than a simple (albeit well made) chunk of steel will. Personally, I am more impressed with a company the warrants a complex machine that WILL break than I am one that warrants a product with zero moving parts that will most likely never break.

Lol,you need to spend more time here on the forums. It's pretty amazing how many ways people here can break a knife.
[URL=http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/blackhorse71/media/_DSC0040.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[BigBert]

Completely agree. My original point was that you are paying for a warranty so that someone can abuse their blade and get a free one out of it. Yes, it's nice knowing that if somehow you do break a blade it will be covered by the company. I will say that ESEE has great customer service. I had an issue with the sheath of my Izula and sent them an email, within 5 days I had a new one at my doorstep no questions asked. Full disclosure- I don't think ESEE is "overpriced" considering you get micarta scales and a quality sheath along with everything else. With regard to 1095 being "cheap"- regardless of how much the materials cost, $100 give or take is the market value for a 1095 blade made in the USA.

 

[BigBert]

Lol,you need to spend more time here on the forums. It's pretty amazing how many ways people here can break a knife.
[URL=http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/blackhorse71/media/_DSC0040.jpg.html][/URL]

Exactly! You pay for the "great warranty" to cover the cost of someone intentionally abusing and destroying a knife. They won't cover normal wear and tear, but they will cover someone putting a blade into a vice and batoning through another blade? To me that just says "when your blade starts to get worn out or rust, just cut it with a torch and get a shiny new one"

 

[lobo9er]

op gone missing trolling maybe?

 

[skyhorse]

Exactly! You pay for the "great warranty" to cover the cost of someone intentionally abusing and destroying a knife. They won't cover normal wear and tear, but they will cover someone putting a blade into a vice and batoning through another blade? To me that just says "when your blade starts to get worn out or rust, just cut it with a torch and get a shiny new one"

Well if you took a cutting torch to your Dillon would they replace it ? LOL

 

[Alnamvet68]

I dodn't feel ESEE's are expensive, especially given the carte blanche warranty, but when you get to the smaller models, such as the Candiru and the Izula II, they are a bit expensive for what you get when compared to the ESEE 3. That said, if you know how to shop, the price of an ESEE is pretty low and affordable.

 

[Karda]

Exactly! You pay for the "great warranty" to cover the cost of someone intentionally abusing and destroying a knife. They won't cover normal wear and tear, but they will cover someone putting a blade into a vice and batoning through another blade? To me that just says "when your blade starts to get worn out or rust, just cut it with a torch and get a shiny new one"

Believe it or not, too many people think this way.
This type of thinking is what makes nice "unconditional" warranties go bye-bye.

 

[skyhorse]

Believe it or not, too many people think this way.
This type of thinking is what makes nice "unconditional" warranties go bye-bye.

Yeah I believe it was Uncle Henry knives were guaranteed against loss. If you lost your knife they would send you a new one.

 

[james terrio]

Completely agree. My original point was that you are paying for a warranty so that someone can abuse their blade and get a free one out of it.

I'm glad we understand each other I'm also with you (and almost everyone else) on the ESEE's being pretty much right where they need to be as far as market value goes.

As an aside, there are quite a number people who've paid $100 more, ahead of time for basically the same knives (same methods of construction, same basic designs, albeit with more costly steel - a raw material cost difference of about $30/knife) with very much the same level of fit/finish from a different company, who have been waiting months and still don't know for sure when they'll get them... so there's that.

As for the blocky scales... like I said before, some people love 'em, some don't. *shrug*

 

[BigBert]

Believe it or not, too many people think this way.
This type of thinking is what makes nice "unconditional" warranties go bye-bye.

Yep. It's only a matter of time. I personally wouldn't do that though. Replacing an intentionally destroyed blade is the only difference between an ESEE warranty and a Becker warranty; ESEE markets their warranty and basically asks for people to destroy their knives. The unconditional warranty is typically sited as ONE of the main reasons to buy an ESEE over other brands, but unless you plan on doing a destruction test its really a moot point. If you break a blade due to manufacturer error such as a bad heat treat, every major knife maker out there will replace it.

 

[skyhorse]

Jeff Randall asked me to destroy my knife and when I refused,he never spoke to me again.
[URL=http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/blackhorse71/media/IMG_1242.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[BigBert]

Hahaha, he seems like that kind of guy. Well, I am beginning to think this was a troll thread so I will bow out of the discussion. I enjoyed talking with you all about this, glad we were able to keep it mature and civil. I think we can all agree that ESEE's are well constructed knives made my a company that stands behind their product, and they are appropriately priced for what you get. Cheers!