Why are esee knives so expensive?

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I think you are missing the point.

The owner of ESEE berated a customer here in public. If he truly were not a jerk, he could have tried to explain to that customer in a rational way, such as you have tried to do, about his "no questions asked" warranty not quite being no questions asked.

While I appreciate that Rowen makes great knives, it will never change my personal opinion of the man behind the ESEE brand, that ship sailed a long time ago along with my ESEE knives (which I gave away).

You can get as good a product, if not better, from Becker and I have never heard Mr. Becker berate a customer, or for that matter I have never known him to be anything but a perfect gentelman.

best

mqqn
 
Buy a single microtech. These will seem cheap.
Their warrAnty seems second to none also.
I'd buy one In heartbeAt if looking for a fixed blade.
 
I'm shocked, shocked I say, that there are jerks in the knife industry. :eek:

On the other hand, it wouldn't be half as fun without Strider, RIP, Jeff, Mike Stewart, Cliff, Les, and many more. ;)
 
mqqn said:
I think you are missing the point.

The owner of ESEE berated a customer here in public. If he truly were not a jerk, he could have tried to explain to that customer in a rational way, such as you have tried to do, about his "no questions asked" warranty not quite being no questions asked.

While I appreciate that Rowen makes great knives, it will never change my personal opinion of the man behind the ESEE brand, that ship sailed a long time ago along with my ESEE knives (which I gave away).
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Did you even bother to read the linked thread? Look at Jeff's post #6:

We hardly ever respond harshly to an end user /customer, but this is plain foolish. I don't want this guy on my team under any circumstances, whether it's camping in a state park or traveling through remote jungles. Anyone that intentionally abuses a life saving tool because they simply don't care and know they will get a replacement for free is not someone I hold in high regards on any level. We have a NO QUESTIONS ASKED warranty against abuse for the times that our knives may be called upon to get someone out of a pinch, save a life, etc. Example: you lock yourself out of your house and need to pry your door open. You break the knife. We replace it because it was being used as a last ditch tool and it broke under "honorable" use. There is NOTHING honorable about throwing our knives into trees because you know if it breaks you will get another. We don't want these type of people as customers. Period. Wished we could weed the idiots out but it's impossible.
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Why should he need to presume that his customers do not have honorable intentions, such that he would need to explain how not to use a knife? I like the fact that he treats people as adults, assuming that they buy a knife to use them as knives. He gave as complete an explanation the intentions behind his warranty as he could. No more needs to be said. Those who don't agree with that can exercise their free market prerogative and don't buy his product.

And please don't talk to me about "berating in public" when you participate in a forum that has a specific sub-forum where people can do exactly that. I'm not criticizing berating, or Bladeforums; I'm saying that that is a perfectly reasonable step in the process when done in its proper place. The person in the email that Jeff posted was gleefully expounding on his willingness to throw his knife and the fact that he gets it replaced free when he breaks it. Whether the guy was malicious, or just an idiot, the result is the same: other owners of ESEE knives are negatively affected by his behavior, in that it would ultimately affect the company should the behavior continue unchecked. Just because Jeff Randall is a businessman and not a "customer" does not mean that he is prohibited from the same "calling out" that anyone here on Bladeforums, or anywhere else, would exercise if they felt the need to do so.

mqqn said:
You can get as good a product, if not better, from Becker and I have never heard Mr. Becker berate a customer, or for that matter I have never known him to be anything but a perfect gentelman.

best

mqqn
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The difference between Beckers and ESEE has already been addressed. If you "upgrade" the Becker's handle and sheath, you are approaching the cost of a comparable ESEE. Your comparison of quality, when properly normalized, is negligible.

And Ethan Becker is a different person than Jeff Randall. It's a question of style. Do you know if Ethan Becker would or would not think the same thing? If not, then stop pretending that it's something substantive; because it's only substantive to those for whom style is an important factor.
 
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Jamie D said:
Buy a single microtech. These will seem cheap.
Their warrAnty seems second to none also.
I'd buy one In heartbeAt if looking for a fixed blade.
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I disagree on both counts. My Microtechs have some of the best fit and finish of any of my knives, and their warranty only covers defects in materials and workmanship.
 
The owner of ESEE berated a customer here in public. If he truly were not a jerk, he could have tried to explain to that customer in a rational way, such as you have tried to do, about his "no questions asked" warranty not quite being no questions asked.
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I don't have a problem with the way it was handled. I don't think it's necessary to be so "polite" all the dang time. Everyone nowadays expects to be treated with kit gloves, it's ridiculous. Plus, the point of posting on a forum is to reach the wider audience, maybe encourage others to think about what's use, and what's abuse. As far as any of us know, he's still sending that guy a new knife every few months, honoring said stated warranty.
 
Mannlicher said:
Boy this thread went South.
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The owner of a knife company (and a member here, by the way) can be called a "jerk" and have his motives and honesty questioned; yet calling out someone doing that is heading "south"?

I guess now I'm missing something....
 
Most of us older guys have seen a huge shift in our lifetimes in knife knowledge and usage, and that of tools in general. Our parents and grandparents taught us about knives and tools, and most often guns as well. At least by the seventh grade, we had classes in school on tool use. We learned how to properly use a tool after selecting the right tool for the job at hand. This seems to have changed in these past two generations.

I remember that Schrade, before they closed, was shifting away from 1095 HC steel in many of their knives because new buyers were aghast that the blades stained the first time they cut an apple. They thought it was a defect in the material. So they took it back to WalMart who had a "no matter what" policy. And Walmart sent them back to Schrade who was bound by contract to honor Walmart's policy. That was one of the many straws that broke the camel's back. A manufacturer only get's 1/3rd of MSRP as profit to begin with. That does not leave much leeway to replace a knife multiple times because a retail customer does not know how to use a tool.
 
Why they cost what they cost. In manufacturing in America, a good rule of thumb is for a company to have a gross margin (GM) of 60-65 percent. There is a little room to lower those numbers, but at 50 percent you’re getting in trouble.

What is GM and why is it important? GM = Revenue – COGS / Revenue, where revenue is the amount of money you take in and COGS or (cost of goods sold) is the cost that can be directly related to building the product.

COGS Examples:
Material Cost
Direct Labor (payroll for the people working in the shop)
Employment taxes paid on labor
Incoming Freight on materials.

Non-COGS Expense Examples:
Indirect Labor ( office staff, sales staff, maintenance staff)
Employee Benefits
And every other bill you pay.

The importance of the GM number is that it is a direct reflection of how well you do what you do. You are putting people and material together and producing a product. It is your efficiency number.

A $100.00 knife should have $35.00 in COGS and $65.00 in GM. The $65.00 is what is used to pay all of the other expenses and hopefully provide a net profit of 10%.

While the formulas have been proven over 100+ years of manufacturing, it is also flexible to allow for individualization, if ESSE offers a no questions asked guarantee, they may roll the cost of this guarantee into COGS.

The point of this is that cost and price are a calculation, while value to an individual is just that, individual.
 
BlackKnight86 said:
The owner of a knife company (and a member here, by the way) can be called a "jerk" and have his motives and honesty questioned; yet calling out someone doing that is heading "south"?

I guess now I'm missing something....
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No, he's right about it going south. But then you would expect it to. Like I said in another thread, we excel at pissing contests around here.

Frankly I agree with the Cajin, I have no problem with someone who speaks their mind. Jeff could have couched his meaning in flowery business terms but he chose the direct approach, and in my opinion was actually quite polite about it. But anyone with thin skin is going to be offended and run home to mama. That's their problem, not his.

Cajin is right. People get offended too easily these days.
 
mqqn said:
I think you are missing the point.

The owner of ESEE berated a customer here in public. If he truly were not a jerk, he could have tried to explain to that customer in a rational way, such as you have tried to do, about his "no questions asked" warranty not quite being no questions asked.

While I appreciate that Rowen makes great knives, it will never change my personal opinion of the man behind the ESEE brand, that ship sailed a long time ago along with my ESEE knives (which I gave away).

You can get as good a product, if not better, from Becker and I have never heard Mr. Becker berate a customer, or for that matter I have never known him to be anything but a perfect gentelman.

best

mqqn
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For what it's worth, I respect your convictions and you standing behind 'em. Can't do any better than that.
 
BlackKnight86 said:
Why should he need to presume ... that he would need to explain how not to use a knife?
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Is no one else bothered by the fact that his assertion regarding throwing knives is WRONG? He asserts that ALL hardened knives will break when thrown, and the Rowen knives for ESEE are 1095 spring-steel at only 55-57 HRC - that is SOFT. HARDER knives of similar design do NOT break when thrown. Why would Rowens? Is it that the other knives are higher quality? I have yet to see him prove his assertion through physics. He can certainly say, "Do not throw our knives, they are prone to failure." That is different from asserting that ALL such knives are so prone to failure. Nor do I think that ESEE knives are so prone.
 
Like I said, some people thought the way Jeff handled the situation was great, others didn't. I have read many of Jeff's posts on this board as well as jungletraining where he came off as immature and childish, IMO. But that is just my opinion. I PERSONALLY do not wish to do business with a company that publicly berates a customer for throwing a knife, but gives the thumbs up to torture testing. Put it in a vice and snap it and we will replace it with a smile...but throw it at a tree and we berate you in public but still market our no questions asked warranty. Your opinions on whether a knife should be thrown are irrelevant, it is the way he dealt with it in a public manor calling the guy an idiot. But like I said, that is just my personal opinion. Esee has a loyal following so obviously some folks like the way he conducts himself.
 
BlackKnight86 said:
And Ethan Becker is a different person than Jeff Randall. It's a question of style. Do you know if Ethan Becker would or would not think the same thing? If not, then stop pretending that it's something substantive; because it's only substantive to those for whom style is an important factor.
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It does not matter what Ethan Becker would "think"....I can guarantee he would not copy the guys email to the forums and proceed to call him an idiot and encourage others to join in. The Becker brand has been around MUCH longer than ESEE, I challenge you to search the forums and the numerous warranty issues that have come up and see if Ethan handled it in such a way.
 
Some of you guys need to take your panties off and grow some thicker skin. Sheesh. Somebody called me a jerk one time in front of all my friends and all I could think about was suicide afterwards....:rolleyes:
 
BlackKnight86 said:
Did you even bother to read the linked thread? Look at Jeff's post #6:...<snip>
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Yes sir, I sure did, when it happened real time.

I see that you are a devout Randall/ESEE fan. You are entitled to your opinion of what happened based on what you read, as am I.

My opinion is that not only did the owner of the company berate a buyer of his product in a public forum (not W&C, it was the now defunct ESEE forum in which I was an enthusiastic participant at the time), but he did so with seeming glee. If he had a problem with the customer, it could have been handled in a professional way, which was diametrically opposed to the way it WAS handled. Mr. Randall lost his mantle of innocence when he began referring to a paying customer as an idiot in public.

If the term jerk is distasteful, he should not have put on the shoe. Mr. Randall called a paying customer an idiot -

Websters definition of idiot
Code: 
: a very stupid or foolish person

I inferred that Mr. Randall acted as a jerk in his doing so:

Websters definition of jerk
Code: 
: a stupid person or a person who is not well-liked or [B]who treats other people badly[/B]

Since you are a obviously a big fan of Mr. Randall, it will be difficult if not impossible for you to understand my point of view, and again, no problem with that. It is what it is.

Shotgun said:
I like that they'll take idiocy to task. Whoever said "the customer is always right" is a moron.
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The customer is indeed "not always right". When the customer is misinformed, there are professional ways to deal with issues, and then there is the way Mr. Randall chose to deal with the problem.

For the OP, and I apologize for contributing to the crapping up of this thread; ESEE knives are expensive because of the warranty and made in USA, both excellent reasons for a knife to cost more than a competitor.

best

mqqn
 
We've gone from talking about the knives to talking about "history." Closed.
 
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