Why are Koenig,Grimsmo,Holt.etc considered a higher tier of knife than Chris reeve,Hinderer,Les George.etc

K.O.D. said:
11 years on the forums, and I still don't get the appeal of full titanium handles, milled or plain. But for years Ti knives are what most of these higher end makers (especially American) offer. This is why I buy some of the lesser known brands and outright customs for less money.
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scorpnsnake said:
Strong and substantial with enough heft. No surface maintenance required. Corrosion, sun, salt, heat, cold fortified. Handsome while taking a wide variety of anodizing, heat ano, coatings, stonewashes, blasts, paint, etc.

What's not to love? :)
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And frankly some of us just like it. Why does anyone like anything??
 
If you could ever figure out why people prefer one nearly identical thing over other nearly identical things and will pay any amount to get the favourite thing you'd be set for life.
 
scorpnsnake said:
Strong and substantial with enough heft. No surface maintenance required. Corrosion, sun, salt, heat, cold fortified. Handsome while taking a wide variety of anodizing, heat ano, coatings, stonewashes, blasts, paint, etc.

What's not to love? :)
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I guess I should amend my statement to be metal handles in general. Too temperature sensitive unless they have a coating like autos.

Personally, I like lightweight knives. Large inlays (iMamba for example) help.

I just always hear stuff about a new knife that has great action, and at least 80% of the time it's a full Ti knife. Gets old.

As cool as some of the finishes are, they (or at least the one ano Ti folder I own) don't wear well and fade with use, so as cool as something like Olamic's entropic finish is, it definitely seems geared more towards an art knife and not for actual use.

I may just to try a milled and anod folder again, maybe the finish will last longer on a higher end knife.
 
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I don’t really like the “tier” approach because at the end a lot of our appreciation of the quality of a knife depends on us…

However if I have to rank some of the higher brands I have based on facts (as much as I can), it would be as follow:

S tier: Koenig, Herman, Shirogorov
The quality of the millings, the attention to the details and the precision of the assembly are the best I have seen.
The heat treat and the blade geometry make their knife good cutters.

A tier: CRK
CRK is in a league of its own. There is no extra millings or unnecessary details. Here the refinement is about simplicity. However you can spot some very nice chamfers and an excellent ergonomic. The heat treat and the blade geometry are excellent too. They are not luxury items, they are luxury tools.

B tier: Hinderer, Spartan, Medford
Excellent knives but there are some shortcuts with the details and refinements and IMO some aspects are more caricatural than really functional: extra thickness, “meeeh” blade grinds, average heat treat, jumpings everywhere, poor chamfers, etc.
I like them a lot for their quality and IMO they have all the capability to match CRK (Sparrtan engraved edition, the textured titanium scales from RHK, the engraved/textured medfords are some example) but they didn’t put as much effort in the design of their knife as the others.

nevertheless I like Spartan and Hinderer a lot so I don’t mind my own “tier list” too much 😂
 
K.O.D. said:
I guess I should amend my statement to be metal handles in general. Too temperature sensitive unless they have a coating like autos.

Personally, I like lightweight knives. Large inlays (iMamba for example) help.

I just always hear stuff about a new knife that has great action, and at least 80% of the time it's a full Ti knife. Gets old.

As cool as some of the finishes are, they (or at least the one ano Ti folder I own) don't wear well and fade with use, so as cool as something like Olamic's entropic finish is, it definitely seems geared more towards an art knife and not for actual use.

I may just to try a milled and anod folder again, maybe the finish will last longer on a higher end knife.
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Have you tried a Koenig Mini Arius?

Koenigs really are in a world of their own for full-ti folders. They are so milled out that it's like picking up a fixed-blade knife you didn't realize was all titanium when you picked it up. It's way lighter than you would think to look at it.
 
scorpnsnake said:
Told me I'd stay out of this, but I lied. Feels rather trollish, hope I'm wrong.

I think Hinderer offers a broader offering at their production numbers and capabilities. As a more production centric business model. So they have everything from stripped affordable models to silly priced offerings. Add a Ti horsehead scale to a Henderer and boom, you're not far from Grimsmo/Holt/Koenig price territory.

These smaller shops focus on a higher level of attention to aesthetics and don't offer G10, micarta or bare bones PJ. Even the base models are tricked out.

CRk's get up there quick as well with some inlays or etching.

LG is an anomoly. This wont be popular, but frankly I feel that his offerings are 20%-30% less than they could be, all things considered. He is a peoples champ of a King. :)

So not so much a different tier or major qaulity differences, just different marketing and offering approaches.
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Fully agree that LG is the anomaly here. He is probably the smallest maker in this discussion. He has one employee and that’s only for the last two years. Every single one of his knives is made with his hands. And while he’s considered mid tech I would guess he makes and sells less than 200 knives a year. And if it’s more than that it’s not much.

I think as mentioned above, his knives could absolutely sell for more but his prices have been the same since I’ve been paying attention. I’ve met Les a few times and have talked with him via ig quite often. I get the feeling he’s happy where he’s at and isn’t looking to sell a 1000 units or make millions. Cause we all know more money more problems. And Les seems to be a good ole boy, happy to hunt, fish and make a few incredible knives.

I have to disagree with madcap_magician madcap_magician about his consistency. I’ve had over 20 at one point and have probably had 30 pass through my hands and his consistency throughout has been astounding and that’s one of the things that has amazed me about him. I think alot of that has to do with the quality control of him actually assembling every knife that leaves his shop. Out of those 30 I’ve only had a problem with one knife that I had to send to him. Turns out someone put aftermarket standoffs that was throwing off the action on the pivot. He fixed it for free and had it back to me in a couple of days. I can honestly say I haven’t found a better guy to support in not just knives but anything.

As for the rest mentioned, I also love crks and the hinderer eklipse and Maximus but not the xm18 primarily because of the flipper tab. However I still don’t feel they have the consistency, incredible action, and just smooth operation overall of a LG. And certainly not the personal touch.

And the ig trinity mentioned, I’m not into spending that much nor am I really impressed with bearing knives in general. But just my opinion.

And for you tldr guys, BUY A LG!
It’s all ya need!!

All Hail King George!!!
 
mitchnola said:
Fully agree that LG is the anomaly here. He is probably the smallest maker in this discussion. He has one employee and that’s only for the last two years. Every single one of his knives is made with his hands. And while he’s considered mid tech I would guess he makes and sells less than 200 knives a year. And if it’s more than that it’s not much.

I think as mentioned above, his knives could absolutely sell for more but his prices have been the same since I’ve been paying attention. I’ve met Les a few times and have talked with him via ig quite often. I get the feeling he’s happy where he’s at and isn’t looking to sell a 1000 units or make millions. Cause we all know more money more problems. And Les seems to be a good ole boy, happy to hunt, fish and make a few incredible knives.

I have to disagree with madcap_magician madcap_magician about his consistency. I’ve had over 20 at one point and have probably had 30 pass through my hands and his consistency throughout has been astounding and that’s one of the things that has amazed me about him. I think alot of that has to do with the quality control of him actually assembling every knife that leaves his shop. Out of those 30 I’ve only had a problem with one knife that I had to send to him. Turns out someone put aftermarket standoffs that was throwing off the action on the pivot. He fixed it for free and had it back to me in a couple of days. I can honestly say I haven’t found a better guy to support in not just knives but anything.

As for the rest mentioned, I also love crks and the hinderer eklipse and Maximus but not the xm18 primarily because of the flipper tab. However I still don’t feel they have the consistency, incredible action, and just smooth operation overall of a LG. And certainly not the personal touch.

And the ig trinity mentioned, I’m not into spending that much nor am I really impressed with bearing knives in general. But just my opinion.

And for you tldr guys, BUY A LG!
It’s all ya need!!

All Hail King George!!!
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mitchnola said:
Fully agree that LG is the anomaly here. He is probably the smallest maker in this discussion. He has one employee and that’s only for the last two years. Every single one of his knives is made with his hands. And while he’s considered mid tech I would guess he makes and sells less than 200 knives a year. And if it’s more than that it’s not much.

I think as mentioned above, his knives could absolutely sell for more but his prices have been the same since I’ve been paying attention. I’ve met Les a few times and have talked with him via ig quite often. I get the feeling he’s happy where he’s at and isn’t looking to sell a 1000 units or make millions. Cause we all know more money more problems. And Les seems to be a good ole boy, happy to hunt, fish and make a few incredible knives.

I have to disagree with madcap_magician madcap_magician about his consistency. I’ve had over 20 at one point and have probably had 30 pass through my hands and his consistency throughout has been astounding and that’s one of the things that has amazed me about him. I think alot of that has to do with the quality control of him actually assembling every knife that leaves his shop. Out of those 30 I’ve only had a problem with one knife that I had to send to him. Turns out someone put aftermarket standoffs that was throwing off the action on the pivot. He fixed it for free and had it back to me in a couple of days. I can honestly say I haven’t found a better guy to support in not just knives but anything.

As for the rest mentioned, I also love crks and the hinderer eklipse and Maximus but not the xm18 primarily because of the flipper tab. However I still don’t feel they have the consistency, incredible action, and just smooth operation overall of a LG. And certainly not the personal touch.

And the ig trinity mentioned, I’m not into spending that much nor am I really impressed with bearing knives in general. But just my opinion.

And for you tldr guys, BUY A LG!
It’s all ya need!!

All Hail King George!!!
Click to expand...
Well, the thing is, I have had five MK3s and still have four. Two were perfect. Two are a bit stiff and gritty. One came with a loose pivot screw. My Talos has excessive lockbar pressure on the blade that pushes it off center.

All of these things are fairly easy to fix and don't hugely impact the function. I think if I sent them to Les, I'd have the same experience you did, and they'd be fixed and back in my hands really fast.

I still think Les is underpriced compared to what he could ask, and I am still loyal to King George. He's offering CRK quality at the price point CRK was at like four years ago.
 
K.O.D. said:
11 years on the forums, and I still don't get the appeal of full titanium handles, milled or plain. But for years Ti knives are what most of these higher end makers (especially American) offer. This is why I buy some of the lesser known brands and outright customs for less money.
Click to expand...

While I like and have plenty of full Ti knives, I do agree that when it comes to actual use, plypeel g10 is the absolute best as far as providing a grip and I also like that it’s lighter. I’ve gone as far as to converting quite a few of my LG’s to some really nice grippy g10.

2 of them are actually stock from Les. Both were very hard to find. I’ve been giving him shit about hopefully getting the new Talos in ag10 scale!

IMG_2647.jpeg
 
madcap_magician said:
Well, the thing is, I have had five MK3s and still have four. Two were perfect. Two are a bit stiff and gritty. One came with a loose pivot screw. My Talos has excessive lockbar pressure on the blade that pushes it off center.

All of these things are fairly easy to fix and don't hugely impact the function. I think if I sent them to Les, I'd have the same experience you did, and they'd be fixed and back in my hands really fast.

I still think Les is underpriced compared to what he could ask, and I am still loyal to King George. He's offering CRK quality at the price point CRK was at like four years ago.
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Ahh, I must admit that I have noticed the newer mk3’s don’t quite match that amazing action on those that came out the first few yrs. However the newer one I had broke in very nicely. I’ve also noticed the actions are stiffer on coated scales.

Really surprised to hear that about the Talos. I have two of the prototypes and they’re flawless. Especially the lockbar, so easy to disengage. Maybe he’s feeling some pressure on getting them out and he’s rushing. I know people are all over him about getting one on fb.

As far as the pivot screws, I’ve had to use loctite or is teflon tape to lock them in place once tuned but those were all secondhand and years old. The new ones I’ve bought directly from him were locked in place.
 
mitchnola said:
Fully agree that LG is the anomaly here. He is probably the smallest maker in this discussion. He has one employee and that’s only for the last two years. Every single one of his knives is made with his hands. And while he’s considered mid tech I would guess he makes and sells less than 200 knives a year. And if it’s more than that it’s not much.

I think as mentioned above, his knives could absolutely sell for more but his prices have been the same since I’ve been paying attention. I’ve met Les a few times and have talked with him via ig quite often. I get the feeling he’s happy where he’s at and isn’t looking to sell a 1000 units or make millions. Cause we all know more money more problems. And Les seems to be a good ole boy, happy to hunt, fish and make a few incredible knives.

I have to disagree with madcap_magician madcap_magician about his consistency. I’ve had over 20 at one point and have probably had 30 pass through my hands and his consistency throughout has been astounding and that’s one of the things that has amazed me about him. I think alot of that has to do with the quality control of him actually assembling every knife that leaves his shop. Out of those 30 I’ve only had a problem with one knife that I had to send to him. Turns out someone put aftermarket standoffs that was throwing off the action on the pivot. He fixed it for free and had it back to me in a couple of days. I can honestly say I haven’t found a better guy to support in not just knives but anything.

As for the rest mentioned, I also love crks and the hinderer eklipse and Maximus but not the xm18 primarily because of the flipper tab. However I still don’t feel they have the consistency, incredible action, and just smooth operation overall of a LG. And certainly not the personal touch.

And the ig trinity mentioned, I’m not into spending that much nor am I really impressed with bearing knives in general. But just my opinion.

And for you tldr guys, BUY A LG!
It’s all ya need!!

All Hail King George!!!
Click to expand...
Pretty sure you just sold me on a Les George in the future.

Edit: typo
 
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