Why are newbs obsessed with 1095

Well I'm a knife maker noob so I'll give my $0.02. My noob friend was making knives before me and he lives near Texas Knife Supply in Houston. He went down there when he first bought some steel and they sold him some O-1 and 1095 as "good steels to start with". So later when I got into it I asked him and he told me he had used some O-1 and 1095 but 1095 was much cheaper. So before doing any research I just bought some 1095 and I also bought a damascus billet cause it was cool. Then I found NJSB and order some 1084, 1095, 52100, and 15N20. I stumbled upon this forum about the same time and then researched more on the steels I had bought. I didn't seem to have a problem with the second knife I made from 1095 and getting a hamon on it was cool to me also. I also tryed forging down some drill line into a knife and I also wanted to try my hand at laminating some steel. That being said I have 6 of the same knives cut out of the 1084 that I'm working on and saving the 1095/15N20 to try laminating and saving the 52100 for the last piece I work on. I figure I'll get a little better as time goes on. I don't really have great temp control yet, but I can get a little bit of a soak and been quenching in mcmaster carr 11 second oil. It gets the 1095 hard enough to were I can easily break off 1" piece in half with a 6" cresent wrench in a vise. Not sure that really means anything but after tempering at 400 it is extremely hard to break off.

End of story.
 
I am also a newb, I started with O1 because...I didn't know about blade forums and didn't know better! I think I got a bit lucky on my first few attempts but then started having trouble heat treating O1 with my rickety HT setup. The fine folks here directed me towards the baron and 1084 and I haven't looked back yet. Since I'm still in the learning stages this is all I need. of course prices will vary but I just looked up the price for 1084 and 1095 of the same dimensions and the 1095 was just a hair MORE expensive than 1084.
 
Willie71 said:
I think it's as simple as name recognition and a lot of bad advice out there. I'm sure there are thousands of 1095 blades out there below Rc50 from backyard heat treat into used motor oil.
Click to expand...

Ive sharpened some 1095 blades like that, they would just gum all over my sharpening stones..Not only that but you use to see a lot of pocket knives made with 1095 that were in the high 40's rc..
great steel if you do it right. Soak at aust temp and a good fast quench like parks 50 and it will surprise a lot of people
 
jdm61 said:
Here is a question that I have. If W2 is a pretty tough steel at 60Rc or higher, why does 1095 have to be left at hardness levels as low as 55 Rc? Same with 5160. We know that it is quite tough at 58-59, yet we see it sold by these "big knife companies" as soft was 54Rc. Why is my 1084 tough at 60-61Rc using the old reliable 1500/400 recipe and Parks #50 when it has less carbon than 1095? Sorry, but this sounds like folks chasing cost, not performance.
Click to expand...

Ive used 1095 at 60rc plenty of times. Its just as tough as 1084 at 60rc, Id say its cost just like you said..1095 aint my favorite steel by any means but its a good steel when done right..A couple seasons ago I gutted,skinned and deboned a large 10 point with a little 1095 knife..It would still coarsely shave arm hair afterwords..After just a few strops on my britches belt it would clean shave arm hair and slice paper very well..id say that's pretty good for lowly 1095..
 
  • Like
Reactions: vba
Natlek said:
So , you recommended to everybody to sell knife from 1095 because there a better steel ? May I ask which steels is better ? Because I also know that there is even better steel from that =better= from 1095 .................. :)
Click to expand...

your oil hardening tool steels, O1, 1.2519, and 1.2842 are all capable of being 'better steels' if for no other reason than the buyer knows what he is getting. numerous posts on this and other forums of folks buying '1095' and getting something different, or not annealed or not descaled.
 
What do you mean by that Scott? I mean how is an O1 blade more know what you get than a 1095?
 
It's a pretty darn nice steel- forges easily, hamons, good choppers, you can make an ABS cut test knife with it, it's not as good as it can be with a basic HT, but not at all bad, and best of all it comes in the sheet thicknesses I want for kitchen knives, unlike everything else.
That said, I rarely use it anymore :)
 
kuraki said:
What do you mean by that Scott? I mean how is an O1 blade more know what you get than a 1095?
Click to expand...

there have been numerous posts here and on other forums where folks have ordered 1095 and did not get what they ordered. also complaints about quality and condition of the steel received. When I get a piece of Starrett O1, I don't have to worry about composition or condition. From posts here, AKS goes the extra mile and makes sure the steel they sell is ready to make knives with.
 
Gotcha. That's what I thought I just wanted to clarify.
 
I really think there is a mystical aspect to 1095 and it's cheap and you can get it pretty much everywhere. I also do think its complexity and specificity in heat treat actually attracts new guys to it. When you tell someone "Heat the 1084 and dunk in canola oil" it sounds kinda boring, "too simple" where as 1095 is super complex so it must be better.

What i find the most intriguing is how almost all suppliers who carry it recommend it treated by pro's or experienced folks - and that nearly ever newbie who posts contains "First knife....1095....backyard heat treat....10" chopper...etc" get's told that is a bad idea. So you'd think after years of this people would have ditched it for something simpler.

JT i think you touched on something with your thread on 15n20 and it makes me think that if there are more threads like that from experienced makers that show newbies that even the Big Boys use the simple steel it will attract newbies to using those steels - please understand i'm not asking the pro's and experienced guys to use "cheaper" simple carbon steels for the sake of us newbies - i'm saying that giving it props would go along way, as JT has done with 15n20. Honestly it made me remember that 15n20 is out there and it makes a dang good knife!

I would guess the first thing most of us do when we feel like we are doing well is up our steel game, which for me meant stainless and more complex high carbons/tool steels. Lately i've been using AEB-L and 80crv2, really almost extensively the last year and neither is all that complicated to heat treat. Which is good because to me heat treating is far more stressful than anything else in the knife making process.
 
Kentucky said:
Ive sharpened some 1095 blades like that, they would just gum all over my sharpening stones..Not only that but you use to see a lot of pocket knives made with 1095 that were in the high 40's rc..
great steel if you do it right. Soak at aust temp and a good fast quench like parks 50 and it will surprise a lot of people
Click to expand...


I've had that experience too. I refuse to sharpen some friend's and relatives knives.

I've been using 1095 for some kitchen knives in 3/32" for those who want a hamon but don't want to pay for the time and effort it takes to use W2. I don't have to thin it, and I feel less compelled to bring out the details in 1095, as I do with W2 or hitachi white. It's just a bit less responsive, and I don't feel like I'm leaving performance (visual) on the table.
 
rybobales said:
I really think there is a mystical aspect to 1095 and it's cheap and you can get it pretty much everywhere. I also do think its complexity and specificity in heat treat actually attracts new guys to it. When you tell someone "Heat the 1084 and dunk in canola oil" it sounds kinda boring, "too simple" where as 1095 is super complex so it must be better.

What i find the most intriguing is how almost all suppliers who carry it recommend it treated by pro's or experienced folks - and that nearly ever newbie who posts contains "First knife....1095....backyard heat treat....10" chopper...etc" get's told that is a bad idea. So you'd think after years of this people would have ditched it for something simpler.

JT i think you touched on something with your thread on 15n20 and it makes me think that if there are more threads like that from experienced makers that show newbies that even the Big Boys use the simple steel it will attract newbies to using those steels - please understand i'm not asking the pro's and experienced guys to use "cheaper" simple carbon steels for the sake of us newbies - i'm saying that giving it props would go along way, as JT has done with 15n20. Honestly it made me remember that 15n20 is out there and it makes a dang good knife!

I would guess the first thing most of us do when we feel like we are doing well is up our steel game, which for me meant stainless and more complex high carbons/tool steels. Lately i've been using AEB-L and 80crv2, really almost extensively the last year and neither is all that complicated to heat treat. Which is good because to me heat treating is far more stressful than anything else in the knife making process.
Click to expand...

I think there's something to this. I don't use 1084, just because it's perceived as a beginner steel. It's a great steel, but W2 will hamon better, and 52100 will wear better. Both require monetary and time investment to heat treat properly though. 1084 wrongfully seems generic.
 
Warren I also had to step away from 5160. Not because it's a bad steel but because it's perceived as a beginner steel for back yard heat treat. It's actually a really nice steel as long as you get the good stuff. But I'm moving to 15N20 for its replacement and welding up tripple stacks. But what's weird is more newbs use 1095 then 5160 and 1095 is still looked apon as if it was given to us by God. While 5160 gets left behind and passed over because it's a "beginner" steel.
 
Willie71 said:
I think there's something to this. I don't use 1084, just because it's perceived as a beginner steel.
Click to expand...

That's the real crux of this. The material chosen is irrelevant. 1095 happens to tick a lot of boxes but it could just as easily be something else and in five years time will be,

The issue is that the new makers want to leap right to making "good" knives that can be put up on Instagram and sold. There's very little interest in progressing through the way it was done in the past making some mistakes and learning from that.
 
you hit the nail on the head I think. A lot of newbs come here and might not say it out loud but there goal is to sell knives as fast as possible. There must be some myth out there that all us knife makers are rich :jerkit:. I don't do it because it makes me money, I do it because I love it.
 
There must be some myth out there that all us knife makers are rich
Click to expand...
???? You mean that's not true? :wink: Much like shrimping here in Gulf Coast - A buddy used to say if he won the lottery could could afford to shrimp for a few more years :chuncky:

Ken H>
 
Danke42 said:
That's the real crux of this. The material chosen is irrelevant. 1095 happens to tick a lot of boxes but it could just as easily be something else and in five years time will be,

The issue is that the new makers want to leap right to making "good" knives that can be put up on Instagram and sold. There's very little interest in progressing through the way it was done in the past making some mistakes and learning from that.
Click to expand...

It's funny. I never wanted to do this full time, but part time is great for me. I have a great career. Knifemaking isn't profitable. It can be if you grew up on a farm with a machine who, that is well equipped, and you don't have to buy all of the tools to make the processes efficient enough that it's not a time sink. Starting from scratch, you would be lucky to break even in the first five years with the equipment setup costs. You don't need the equipment to make a knife, but you need the equipment to make enough knives to support yourself and your family. One has to overcome the name recognition hurdle as well.

Locally, people seek me out. They know I make a good knife at a good price point. They know I love the metallurgy and customers who want that know where to come. To be on topic, no one has ever asked me to use a specific steel, except one 3v knife. New makers think it's the steel type, not the selection of appropriate steel, and proper heat treat that is important. People tell me what their priorities are, and I tell them I think a certain steel would be a good choice. All say they trust my suggestions. Except the 3c guy. I suggested 80CRV2 to save money because 3v was overkill with his geometry spec, but he wanted 3v.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top