"Why are you carrying this weapon?"....

pyton357ru

pyton357ru

Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
362
Have you got any answer for this? The one which jumps to your mind first? I've noticed that my first phrase is ALWAYS "This is NOT a weapon, just a utility knife." Said about 50/50 FRN Endura.
 
depends on who is asking.
if it's a cop i would say it's for my job:)
anyone else-i say because i can.i'm a grown ass man,i have my own home and i don't answer to anyone....unless they have a badge ;)
 
"That is a tool, Sir." Honestly, I get out of my truck with hat in hand and say "Yes Sir, No Sir, three bags full, Sir". They get respect up front, civil behavior first and last, and permission to do nothing. By the way, I think the real sheeple are those who alter their behavior because the lambs are mewing (or might mew!), or because the wolves are prowling. I carry every new knife and gun I buy for a time, concealed and/or openly, and let my friends fondle them. No one I know ever suspects me of being unprepared. They also know I'd never carry a gun into their home. Don't be a sheeple, folks. They don't like spiders and snakes, let 'em stay in the closet with a can of raid.
 
As long as you don;t use the phrase you hear on these boards---

"This isn'st a weapon, I'm the weapon."

That probably doesn't do much good with the LEO doing the questioning. Okay, at the water cooler maybe...
 
I'll give you my answer, "This is a knife, it's a tool not a weapon. Let me explain the difference, if I use it to open the Mail it's a tool, if I use it to open A MALE it's a weapon...ya got it?" ;)
 
I've been a victim -- been there, done that, I didn't get any T-shirt. I quit playing that game a long time ago.
 
It is a semantic issue, but it is very important to assert that it is not a weapon. Don't let that word be used. Explain that you have used this tool for utilitarian tasks tens of thousands of times, practically every day, but rarely if ever have used it as a weapon. Practical experience shows that it is a tool.
 
The question of whether a knife is a weapon or tool is irrelevant as the courts, lawmakers, and subsequently the police who enforce the laws on the books consider it a weapon.

States do not have "tool laws" that restrict in one form or another the carrying of a knife. States do have "dangerous weapons" laws which cover many restricted items, KNIVES included.

You can call it a tool, deny it is a weapon to the officer on the street, and he'll realize right away the semantics you attempting to use in your answer.

HE knows it is considered a weapon by law. You should also. If you play merry go round with an officer of the law who has for any reason detained you [ threshold inquiry ], he will likely see through the semantics and not appreciate your response. Is that the way to start off with the officer? Feining ignorance that the knife is a tool and not a weapon.

You may use it as a tool, but it is by law, considered a weapon. If you are carrying a knife which meets the guidelines of the jurisdiction you are in at the time of the stop and question, you are not breaking any statutes and have nothing to worry about.

I know from experience that most cops won't know the law and many have been given false information from their peers upon entering the field of police work about what is and isn't illegal.

Carry the law governing knives in that locale, be ready to prove you are not in violation of any laws by carrying the knife he has asked about. Be educated, be polite, be honest when questioned. Anything less than that and the cop will be prone to detain you further or confiscate the knife for GP.

If the cop has asked about your knife, don't think it is the first time he has dealt with the knife issues. They don't allways know the law but they know knives are considered weapons and not tools.

Try not to insult their intelligence with the namby pamby answers to direct questions. You'll be better off in the end most of the time. When you are in court before the judge you may claim it was a tool only at the top of your lungs over and over, the judge will smile and cite the dangerous weapons statutes proving you wrong. The powers that be decide what is a weapon and what isn't a weapon.

To continue to deny what is written in black and white doesn't do you any good on the streets or in the courts. Your lawyer will probably tell you the same thing, after he read the rulings also.

Brownie
 
say anything about the knife I was carrying. My old EZ-Out never raised an eyebrow. Neither did my M-16-03Z. What did was my kubotan, and I don't carry it anymore. As of late, my knives don't look too "tactical". SAK, 2 blade trapper, Spydie Rescue, maybe a 110. And I don't look as much like a punk as I did when I was 19. And every time I've been stopped it was for fix-it tickets, not fighting, and I was respectful. No problems. YMMV

Frank
 
It is nice to know what the legal terms are in your state. When talking about concealed weapons the Colorado law states: " "Knife" means any dagger, dirk, knife, or stiletto with a blade over 3-1/2 inches in length, or any other dangerous instrument capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds, but does not include a hunting or fishing knife carried for sports use. The issue that a knife is a hunting or fishing knife must be raised as an affirmative defense."

If the blade is under 3.5" I am carrying a "pocket knife" for work and utility purposes. If the blade is over 3.5" I am carrying a "hunting knife" for "sporting purposes". If I am not hunting or fishing (you need to have your license on you for that) I am on my way to do some camping and hiking. The knife is for camp use and as basic survival gear. It might also be something I carry when hiking in the mountains at lunch or after work.

I have had keychain tools referred to as weapons at the local courthouse. As long as they return them to me I don't get into an argument about it.
 
If you're really feeling frisky you could feign ignorance.

"what weapon?, Oh you mean the pencil? No? My belt then? What, not that either? Hmm the tire iron in my car? No? Oh what this knife? Oh hell just incase I ever need to open my mail"

Likely not a good idea when facing a badge but it'd be funny as hell.
Please don't take this seriously it would very likely get you in deep trouble. However I could see it being used for Sheeple.
 
Brwonie - Not to have an arguement over this, but I would disagree about claiming it is a tool or a weapon. If a LEO asks you if it is a weapon and you freely admit it, you have given more substance to the charge. If you maintain it is a tool, (depending on why the LEO is talking to you) there is a good chance he/she might not take you in. I've spoken to several LEO's in my area and have a few as freinds, almost all of them would let the issue drop if you claim your knife is a tool as oppossed to a weapon. In fact, from what they have told me, most LEO's in my area aren't concerned with knives unless your activity is of such a nature that a knife might truly be a weapon.

I have had freinds who were stopped and questioned by a LEO, they were asked if they had any weapons, they said no, the LEO asked if they had any knives, they said yes. The LEO asked for the knife while he spoke to them. Once they were finished, he gave the knife back. They were questioned, because they were in an area of town they didn't fit in. They had a legitimate reason for being there and had no record. No problem. I dare say, if they had admitted that their knives were weapons, they would have been arrested.

How you present yourself and how you articulate your activities and intentions will have an impact on the LEO and on the courts.

The other thing to be mentioned, if a LEO wants to bring you in for something, there is usually some type of catch all law that permits the LEO to view darn near anything on your person as a weapon or criminal tool.
 
Dirk's reply makes sense. If you are caught with a knife that is legally considered a weapon, about all you can do is claim you were carrying it for utility purposes. People do this every day, and if there is no additional evidence that you were carrying the knife as a weapon, at least this is a credible excuse. If you are arrested anyway it could result in the judge or the jury being more lenient.
 
Brownie makes some excellent points: You absolutely should know the law wherever you are and, if possible, should be able to quote the appropriate statute and, best yet, carry a copy. Assuming that what you carry is legal, the question about whether or not it is a weapon is irrelevant. If a certain class of tool (say a 3.5 folding knife) is legal to carry, then there should be a presumption on everyone’s part that it is in fact a tool and not a weapon.

However, I have to strongly disagree that you should acknowledge carrying a weapon, and I believe that Gollnick has explained why. I am a law-abiding citizen, and I am friendly, helpful and respectful towards cops. But as soon as an on-duty cop starts to question me about anything, including my knife, it’s time to say as little as possible and to not say anything potentially incriminating (you may think you know the law and believe that you are in the right, but you may have unwittingly committed some kind of technical violation – weapons laws are often convoluted and complex). A cop that is questioning me is not my friend or ally. I don’t care if they respect me or appreciate my candor. I always carry a knife, I usually carry an impact tool, but “no officer, those are not weapons”. If the cop thinks I’m insulting their intelligence, that’s too damn bad. They need to stop wasting my time and tax money and go find a real criminal.

miguel
 
Dirk,
Your actions would be why you were being questioned to begin with, of course.

If your actions are suspicious and you are questioned, the cop make take the knife from you or he may not depending on the circumstances.

Admitting a knife is a weapon won't get you arrested unles there are other extenuating circumsances which brought the stop to begin with.

I can readily admit it is a weapon, and then show him the dangerous "weapons" statute that covers knives. If the knife isn't illegal by law and I'm not breaking the law they have no reasonable suspicion to arrest. I was LE for 9 years and had to deal with these issues as well over that short timeframe.

The law states that I can carry a knife not restricted. It's a weapon but an accepted weapon under my states laws.

Pretty hard to explain away as a tool something like the "sifu" or "hobitt" even if they are not restricted in that particular jurisdiction.

I carry nothing "illegal" by law in my state. I have no fear of an LE arresting me for abiding by the law. Cops need probable cause to arrest. That probable cause could mean being in the wrong area of town at the wrong time of day/night [ depending on your answers ], violating a dangerous weapons statute by object description, your actions reported by others witnessing your breaking a law he can charge you with [ in my state it has to be a felony though if relied upon from witnesses statements and not actually observed by the cop ].

I have given no substance to any pending charges unless my actions were such that he could reasonably believe I was about to use the knife in the furtherance in commision of a crime.

Have had them taken away and returned later after the chief was educated the particular knife was not "contraband/illegal" by law as the officer presumed at the time of the confiscation.

Keep in mind that if a cop takes your weapon which is not restricted by law he has stolen your personal property. He has no rights to take property not legally contraband or being used in the furtherance of a crime and his ignorance of the law is no more an excuse for his actions than others ignorance they were in violation of a restricted dangerous weapon.

I instruct LE's from across the country and most have no idea what the restrictions on knives are, and as well, they usually are wrong when asked to cite the law in their states [ usually I just use the blade length as the question and no other criteria ].

I'll hold a Bowie knife with a 12" blade up and ask them if this is illegal to posses in public. All but a few answer yes. Then I pass out the "dangerous weapons" statutes, give them time to read the few paragraphs and reask the question. They are in shock that they have confiscated [ for mere possesion with no other extenuating circumstances ] hundreds of knives illegally.

In my state, there is no blade length restriction, and in fact 1994 case law expressly exempts " kitchen knives, swiss army knives, and folding type knives" with exceptions for autos being illegal.

If you are not breaking the law, know the laws as to what is restricted and not restricted in your area, can cite the code or better yet show them the law in writing at the time of questioning they have no grounds to confiscate.

Educating LE's relative the dangerous weapons laws and bringing them up to speed on relavant issues is always rewarding. I hope in some way that I further the cause of knife owners everywhere by doing so.

We, as a collective body with similair interests, have a responsibility to make sure we are on "terra firma" when we carry objects on our person which may be questioned as the their legality.

Sure some officers are easy going and will react as you have described. I'm more apt to point out I have numerous weapons on me and look forward to educating an officer on the street who happens to get aggressive at my response.

Having the experience of working in the profession and working within the court systems in my jurisdictions over the years I enjoy educating the officers less knowledgable than I on these issues. I'm not a kid at 52, do not look like a troubled wanderer, am capable of articulating my reasoning and actions and he should be prepared to do the same.

I think many here are afraid to "deal" with LE's on the street. These types give off indications they are unsure of their actions and the officers certainly pick up on these types and if they want to can then choose to further theor views and confiscate without much fear of hearing anything further about it.

Brownie
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
The question of whether a knife is a weapon or tool is irrelevant as the courts, lawmakers, and subsequently the police who enforce the laws on the books consider it a weapon.../B]
Click to expand...


This is not factual, the perception of individual LEOs notwithstanding.

Non-auto folding knives that are not open and locked are specifically excluded from California's definition of a dirk or dagger, the designation CA gives to dangerous weapons.

When somebody implies that the knife in my hand is a weapon, I say that a weapon is something that gets used to hurt another person. It could be a telephone, a pair of scissors, a chair, a rock. I tell them that my knife has never been used to hurt anyone. Therefore it is a tool. Just like the knives used every day in all the kitchens in all the world.
 
Originally posted by Steve Harvey
Therefore it is a tool. Just like the knives used every day in all the kitchens in all the world.
Click to expand...
That made me think of this response:

What is the difference between this knife here and all the ones I'm sure you have in your kitchen?


Watch them stammer and stutter their way out of that one...:rolleyes:
 
What weapon??...Man, you've been watching too damn much Rambo-TV.:D.
 
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