"Why are you carrying this weapon?"....

If a cop wants to be a jerk, best thing to do is get out of his way and let him, and keep your mouth shut. You can always respond in kind with letters to superiors, councilmen, newspapers, Judges, etc. You can file real/frivolous law suits, just any number of ways to let anyone know you are not to be trifled with, and that it aint worth their efforts to hassle you. If you have committed a crime by carrying that knife, this whole thread is moot. Never be intimidated, never shirk justice, and never give up your rights that so many brave men and women have given up their lives and limbs in defense of.
 
DrJones:
The obvious answer is -- the difference is you are carrying this knife in public, I don't carry my kitchen knives thusly.

Thats a start as to differences. There could be others but any difference is what you were looking for.

Other items in the home aren't illegal but are if carried public.
That dirk, ice pick, etc would be good examples.

Not familiar with Cali laws but if only dirks, daggers are considered knives there, that leaves stilettos, and such as legal to carry?
Me thinks further research is necessary before I'll accept that.

Brownie
 
To an LEO: It's a tool.

To someone I don't know who is bothering me about it: It's perfectly legal for me to carry this, I'm doing anything to you and why the phuck are you talking to me?

To someone I don't know but likes the knife or is interested (in a good way): Do you have an EDC... (knife conversation starts)

To someone who I know: YOU KNOW I CARRY A KNIFE AS A TOOL!
 
Here's what I found under Cali law.

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any
of the following is punishable by imprisonment in
a county jail not exceeding one year or in the
state prison:
(a)(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any
dirk or dagger.
(c)(24) As used in this section, a
"dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other
instrument with or without a handguard that is
capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that
may inflict great bodily injury or death.
A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that
is not prohibited by Section 653k [switchblade], or
a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing
weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or
death only if the blade of the knife is exposed
and locked into position.
(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly
suspended from the waist of the wearer are not
concealed within the meaning of this section

As we can see below as in excerpt from above, a pocket knife is considered capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon but only when it has been exposed [ open ] and locked. So, lets see, it clearly states the pocketknife is a "stabbing weapon" and NOT a stabbing tool. MY MY MY, what a surprise hey?


"or
a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing
weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or
death only if the blade of the knife is exposed
and locked into position.

Some of you folks really need to pay attention and research the laws as they are written and not attempt to twist the wording to fit your wants. As written, a pocket knife is considered a stabbing weapon. It's there in black and white [ as I knew it would be ]. They aren't considered tools, they are weapons. Play all the semantics you guys want but the law is there for you to read and understand.

There are no dangerous "tool" laws folks, knives fall under dangerous weapons laws. Read anyway you want but the courts will act on the letter of the law not semantics.

Brownie
 
I'd show the curious party my Mini AFCK and tell them that it's for cutting string and opening boxes. Then I'd pull out my Cold Steel Bush Ranger (AUS8A) and say, "This is for eliminating bad guys!"
(Just kidding!):D
 
"As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. "

I'll play smart-mouth (err...typist)--

stabbing weapon...so it's OK to carry a concealed meat cleaver or hatchet?
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
There are no dangerous "tool" laws folks, knives fall under dangerous weapons laws. Read anyway you want but the courts will act on the letter of the law not semantics.
Click to expand...

It sounds like that according to CA Law:

An open folder, when confronting an officer, gives probable cause to assume that the tool is meant to harm the officer. As compared to a UTILITARIAN user who would likely have the tool secured (unless they are using it for utilitarian purposes at that moment when confronted by the LEO) as well as have a tool that conforms to local law.

A LEO will sooner go after an obvious crack fiend with a knife as compared to a citizen who acts respectable and has a RIGHT to carry said tool. There is such a thing as common sense (not that LEOs are perfect by any means either).

Just my $0.02
 
I would say "No" if asked if I was carrying any weapons and I had a legal pocket knife. If asked specifically about the knife as weapon I would assert it's use as a tool.

Buried somewhere in the CO state law regarding weapons is the inclusion of (Paraphrased, I don't have access to Westlaw ATM) "Any object not herein defined carried with the intent or purpose of being used to cause bodily harm"

By telling a LEO that you have a WEAPON in reference to a legally carried knife, you have then defined the object as falling into the catch-all category above, and having demonstrated it as an object whose intended use is causing bodily harm you are then guilty of carrying a concealed weapon even if the device itself is otherwise legal. (The same would apply to a coke bottle, or a utility knife or... you get the idea.)

The answer is also completely honest.... while I may be aware that a knife COULD be used as a weapon, I have no intent to do so. Being that I have no intent to use it as such, and it is not defined by the law as being such there is no reason I would identify it to a LEO as such.

Just my 2 bits. I might actually go further to appease the LEO by responding "No, I don't have any weapons BUT I do have a pocket knife in my front right pants pocket."
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
...Not familiar with Cali laws but if only dirks, daggers are considered knives there, that leaves stilettos, and such as legal to carry?
Me thinks further research is necessary before I'll accept that...
Click to expand...

Actually the term "dirk or dagger" means "any instrument...capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury..."

But as I said, folding knives are exempted from the definition as long as they are not carried in the open position.

By all means, educuate yourself. :)

CA Penal Code Section 12020

Subsection 24:

(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.

But all that is rather beside the issue of how certain persons view all knives as scary weapons and what a knife owner may say to such a person to enlighten them about the fact that their notions are both mistaken and silly.

Automobiles are actually the most dangerous and frightening tool that we use, but you don't see people trembling with horror when you get into one, unless perhaps they know what a horrible driver you are. :)

Cheers.
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
Here's what I found under Cali law...

...As we can see below as in excerpt from above, a pocket knife is considered capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon but only when it has been exposed [ open ] and locked. So, lets see, it clearly states the pocketknife is a "stabbing weapon" and NOT a stabbing tool. MY MY MY, what a surprise hey?
Click to expand...

Brownie,

You have to learn to read more carefully with less of an eye to what you want to see. Where in 12020 does it say that all knives are dangerous weapons?

If you read it, you will see that 12020 only prohibits carrying "dirks or daggers" concealed. It goes on to define what a dirk or dagger is...and is not. It explicitly defines several specific types of illegal "instruments". It makes no effort to define what a weapon is, or to make any weapons, other than those explicitly named, illegal.

It explicitly excludes all knives carried openly, yes including dirks and daggers, and folding knives carried concealed and folded, from the prohibition.

In essense, California law says that all knives must be worn openly unless they are folding knives. It places no other social burden upon them.
 
Originally posted by firkin
...I'll play smart-mouth (err...typist)--

stabbing weapon...so it's OK to carry a concealed meat cleaver or hatchet?
Click to expand...

Actually, yes. Technically...

There have been efforts on the part of some knife makers to create "California" models with blunt tips. The law is very poorly written, but it does what the LEO community wanted it to do, enable them to arrest gang-bangers for carrying hideouts and shivs.
 
Firstly, because I can. However, as has been mentioned, my knife is a tool, not a weapon...unless it absolutely has to be.

I ALWAYS have a copy of the Texas state law in regards to legal blade length. I've never had to answer that question to a LEO, but I like to consider myself prepared for that time should it arrive. ;)
 
I'll give you my answer, "This is a knife, it's a tool not a weapon. Let me explain the difference, if I use it to open the Mail it's a tool, if I use it to open A MALE it's a weapon...ya got it?"
Click to expand...

PhilL - that is too damned funny!

I usually carry one knife for general utility use and another for just in case. The "just in case" knife is never seen by anyone - unless I intend to defend myself from them or they are a friend who likes knives. So, if somebody I don't know from Adam (and don't give 2 sh!ts about) asks me why I'm carrying the weapon, they are looking at the "utility" knife... So I tell 'em "This knife is not a weapon. It's for opening stuff", then sometimes just for fun (only with people I feel comfortable with, like family or friends) I whip out the Sifu, Rinaldi L.E.O., Greco Companion, etc. and say "This one's for opening people"!

If it's an officer, I would politely explain that I do not use it as a weapon and that it is only used to open reams of paper at work, while politely keeping both hands in the air.
 
i get a ton of flak in chicago for both my SPyderco police necklace knife on my keychain with a photon microlight as well as my CRK Umfaan. the umfaan is for when i am not working, but the spydie necklace is really nice to have on the keychain, and i would put a smaller knife on there if i could find one as nice. i am an attorney and i get hasseled with the spydie when i go to court. yeah yeah, i should know better, but the sign only refers to weapons ... i mean really, the spydie necklace knife is a weapon?? hell, i can do more damage with my Bic pen ... and no, the law in ilinois is a 3 inch limit and in chicago a 2.5 inch limit, so i know BOTH my knives that i carry are WELL under the limit. still kinda stinks when they ask all kinds of dumb questions or tell me to leave it in the car. oh well,
 
I carry this weapon because it's cool! I would not feel nearly as nifty without this gigantic blade at my side!

Besides, it looks good on my gun belt.
 
I got pulled over last week for exceeding the speed limit. The officer asked me if I had any weapons on my person or in the car....I told him I had a "folder' in my pocket and asked him if he wanted to see it. He said no and let me go with just a warning.
 
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