Why baton or chop with a knife?

Karda said:
You don't tug on supermans cape... you don't spit into the wind.... you don't baton, or chop with a folding knife....and you don't mess around with Jim...
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Wow, talk about a flash from the Jim Croche (sp) past! However I don't remember the words exactly like that. :confused: Any way I got a good chuckle out of that. We all need a chuckle to lighten up sometimes. Thanks for that.

Blessings,

Omar
 
Karda said:
You don't tug on supermans cape... you don't spit into the wind.... you don't baton, or chop with a folding knife....and you don't mess around with Jim...
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The real test is, can you say that without humming it to the song?!? Not me! :D
 
Since I can't get multi-quote to work properly (probably a browser thing), I will do this sloppily in a cut-and-paste manner. and resulted in an extremely long post...

First, I am NOT trolling. It was an honest question in an effort to learn.

Next - in response to superdave1:

Quoting superdave1 -

"Your question has sort of a troll-like nuance, and I'm not a chopper or battoner, but
Battoning could be theoretically used to get to the dry wood inside when the outside is wet...
Some like to test their skills in case the need ever arises.
I see you are new here, how you present your questions will have a big effect on the tone of the answers.... "

My response:

I'm new here -correct observation. However, I circled like a vulture for 3 months before I joined. I joined when I finally had a question to ask. I could also raise my post count by posting inane comments like "nice picture","wish I had one", etc as I have OBSERVED in MANY threads . I have spent literally HOURS crawling through old posts trying learn from the past, not just dumping a Q out there because it popped into my head. These activities do not reflect in the length of time I have been posting on the forum. As an example, over in the Axes/Hatchet forum I saw lots of references to BLO. I spent 4 hours searching threads to learn that it meant "boiled linseed oil". But I LOOKED and didn't just blurt out a Q.

To quote you (incompletely but with NUANCES)

"How you present.... yada yada..."

Well, my response to that is - HOW YOU ANSWER WILL DETERMINE HOW I WILL VIEW YOU, that is, as either "someone trying to help" or "the south end of a north bound mule". Take your pick as to how you meant it.

Sulaco posted (in part)::

"He's troling. He didn't cite examples, just a biased opinion."


Response::
Go back to my original post - at no time did I cite an opinion, biased or otherwise. I made an observation and asked a question as to why people did something. I saw no obvious need to specifically cite the various threads that contained bitches, lamentations, and crying rivers about screwing up knives. Refer back to superdave1's observation about me being relatively new here. See my response.

Kniferbro gave the best reason for batoning in a non-aw-#$%^ situation::

"Because if I really was in that for-real, no-@#$%, "I'm lost in the woods with just a knife" survival situation, it sure would suck to take one wack on your
knife and have it fall into pieces. I would rather have gotten that little shindig over with at my house then when I really need a knife."

As a 10+ yr Navy/10+ yr Naval reserve veteran, and 23+ year survivor as a VOLUNTEER (which in Texas means unpaid) fireman/EMT with over 7000 responses, I can honestly say that I have practiced for worst case scenarios lots of times. His answer, to me, is the best response.

Purpledc said ::

"IMHO batoning seems like a safer and more controlled way of breaking down tinder into kindling. Im not super coordinated. And therefore if I can prevent myself from swinging a 5 pound edged object at any time I will. Batoning allows you to place a blade on the wood and hit that from behind. Id rather take the swinging object to a knuckle than a hatchet in the foot. But that is what I would do. Many others might not. Is it wrong? Not at all. Its a different way of cooking the same meal. And one way or another might be safer and more controlled for someone given their experience. Like they always say there is more than one way to skin a cat."

My response::

This makes sense. I have practiced with axes, hatchets, machetes, and knives. I have thrown literally tons of lead and steel down-range "practicing". I will use whatever I have that is best for the situation. If you look back, I said "CAMPING" not "HIKING". Camping implies, to me, that I am taking way more "stuff" than I need because I have a pickup with trailer for all that other stuff. Hiking is more of a minimalist undertaking. I carry a 2 lb hatchet rather than a 2 lb SYCO. The hatchet can double as a hammer.:) Nuff said.

Now for the other reasons listed in various posts - I will simply refer to them in general rather than cut and paste them in - paraphrasing here and there --

"fun", "not good with an ax/hatchet", "ax is too heavy to hike with", and on and on and on...

These are all appropriate reasons for the poster who posted whatever. They answered why they did it. I learned. Now, I will probably spend more money on more knives and learn how to baton properly, so that I CAN do it right if I ever need to. Which is what I asked - to learn.

One last thing - William M. - If I am ever heading to Abilene (7+ hr drive), I'll let you know.:) Now down here, THIS is my knife of choice for mesquite trees:

ms260.JPG :D:D
 
I never baton with a knife. I use a HI khukuri, parang, or a Gansfors small hatchet when camping for all my chopping needs. Funny about the chain saw, I and my friends often keep one in the pick up truck. We all do things different I guess.
 
No offense intended here, but why not? I have an Ontario Spec Plus Tanto 8" knife that I've had for over 10 years and I have used it to baton, pry, chop, slice, and anything else, and she just keeps coming back for more. Granted, it didn't cost hundreds of dollars (my cousin got it for me as a birthday gift and I think he said they were around $30 bucks at a gun show) but the point here is that it gets used. If at some point it breaks, then I've got an SP50 that I'm breaking-in for replacement duty. I enjoy using it for what it is... a tool. Just my two cents.:)
 
I use a knife/baton *just about every* time I make a fire. For over 30 years (since 1977 anyway) this has been my practice and I've *never* broken a knife. However, like a lot of things in life, there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Sometimes there a lot of right ways to do things, but there are usually a definite wrong way to them also. Using a tool like a knife is one of these.

I grew up in northern Michigan and we heated our house with wood so I made/used a whole lot of kindling. I used whatever was around at the moment - usually a hatchet, but not always. I used to whittle slivers of wood with a knife (usually my old smaller Ka-Bar hunting knife) so my knife was usually near the stove. Sometimes I had to whack the hatchet with another chunk of wood (a "baton") to split whatever twisty/knotty log I got into and then this practice evolved to use with my knife - it was just faster to use whatever I had in my hand at the time. Speed was important when the house was cold in the morning! This didn't mean I rushed and wasn't careful, just that whatever was most convenient was "faster".

I'm not an advocate of splitting larger logs (say larger than a 5-6" round) with my knife so I don't know if that's what you mean by "batoning" or not. To me, using a knife and baton together - batonning - is for making kindling. I have split larger rounds than I generally prefer (the 5-6"-ish size), but by splitting off slabs from the outside of the log. I go about it slowly and without haste (or breakage).

Aside from kindling or a small fire, I don't personally don't have a need to baton unless the wood is saturated. Then it would only be to split off the mushy outer. Otherwise, I just scoot the larger rounds/logs into the fire as they're burned - no need to split anything.

Incidentally, you don't have to have perfect, sawed-ends to baton split a log - a common misconception. Just jamb one end of the log to be split into the ground and begin the split at the other end - broken/jagged or whatever. Once the log starts to split, I slide a twig or something in between the halves above my knife and then remove my knife and pull the halves apart. Once I have a good sized split piece of wood, I use it as a "platform" base to rest the next log to be split onto and baton right on through until I have enough kindling.
 
sams said:
I never baton with a knife. I use a HI khukuri, parang, or a Gansfors small hatchet when camping for all my chopping needs. Funny about the chain saw, I and my friends often keep one in the pick up truck. We all do things different I guess.
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Hi, Sams. Can we agree that "batoning" is not "chiopping"?
 
Sure, I never thought about it that way. I guess there is a BIG difference. :-)

I had a Puma Sea Hunter I snapped off at the hilt when I tried "batoning" through a fish out in Sebastian, Fl. Definitely not chopping because I did not want to cut into the boat with my kukuhri. It was the rust from the salt water. I thought the SS would have held up better.
 
Superdave1 said:
Your question has sort of a troll-like nuance, and I'm not a chopper or battoner, but
Battoning could be theoretically used to get to the dry wood inside when the outside is wet...
Some like to test their skills in case the need ever arises.
I see you are new here, how you present your questions will have a big effect on the tone of the answers....
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Seriously? Im new here as well and I have often wondered the same thing about batoning and chopping mainly because that is often shown on youtube when I search for a knife review. I personally dont see a reason for it being the ultimate way to see if a knife is going to be usefull or not.

Great forum here and I have enjoyed reading it but the ignorant and condescending replies like yours are completely unnecessary.
 
I have hiked in several states over the last 15 years, and have made many fires.
Never once had a need for battoning anything, and we've had some doozy fires big enough to light up the mountain top.
I carry a $20 Schrade fixed blade that has served me well From Maine to Montana.ImageUploadedByTapatalk1367807012.368511.jpg


Edit: I have found that the best way to avoid mod intervention is to ignore folks who try to push or insult you, and just stay on topic.
 
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TwinStick said:
You will get many pro/con responses, i am sure.

I am pro batoning. Why, you ask. because i am simply not that good with an axe or hatchet or tomahawk. My mind works like this: swinging sharpened steel at an object that can move, have knotts, etc.., is asking for trouble. You can miss, be distracted for a split second, log can fall. Almost every year without fail, while camping, someone chops themselves with an axe or hatchet because of a miss, glancing blow, knott, etc... . Alcohol does NOT help. When batoning, I place the sharp edge exactly where i want it & then hit it. In my mind---much safer. Also fun, to see what your knives can take. :D




I have never broke one of my knives batoning. If you cant baton with it, it is not worth having IMHO.

This is just my .02 cents. YMMV :D
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Good Lord, that's your reason for batonning? 'cause I can't use me an ax' Instead of practicing batonning, learn to use an ax like a real man.I can hit a crack in the face of a 30" round log with a large splitting maul every time. It takes practice. I've been doing it since I was 9. I'd love to see anyone split a log that big into 10 perfectly sized pieces with a knife.

Superdave1 said:
Your question has sort of a troll-like nuance, and I'm not a chopper or battoner, but
Battoning could be theoretically used to get to the dry wood inside when the outside is wet...
Some like to test their skills in case the need ever arises.
I see you are new here, how you present your questions will have a big effect on the tone of the answers....
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Ahh, original. When one can't find a good answer, bring out the trolls!
Sulaco said:
We do it to drive trolls, err, I mean, posters like you crazy. :)
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Again with the trolls!
Karda said:
Believe it or not, there are knives made that will chop (or baton) as well or better than any axe/hatchet and are made just for the purpose of chopping wood.
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And you can prove that? Why have millions of trees been felled, and processed with axes? I mean, they had knives too. Yeah, they did it wrong for centuries.
 
OP, post this in the hatchet and ax subforum and they'll give you logical and sensible answers. You nailed it, though. Some folks are proud of beating a knife into a twig to make kindling. The rest of us use a hatchet and have time left to enjoy the fire.
 
I'd say the pro cutting/chopping competitions would be proof. Youtube it, They are all over.

If it can move around like a branch. I think a good knife would have an advantage over an ax.
 
I understand that opinions may differ and that life experience differs.

I do not understand why some, including some in this thread, cannot discuss an issue without adopting a tone of superiority, as if their opinion amounts to Received Wisdom
 
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jimh0220 said:
And you can prove that? Why have millions of trees been felled, and processed with axes? I mean, they had knives too. Yeah, they did it wrong for centuries.
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Probably because if you asked most lumberjacks they couldn't tell the difference between a Ghurka and a Pineapple?
Probably because until a certain manufacturer started making them specifically for the purposes outlined here, most khukuri were tourist khukuri and considered junk. I invite you to bring your axe and hatchet and I will match you with my khukuri. We will see who finishes first and who is the most tired. Yes, I can prove what I say.

As to your posting? you need to tone it down a little it is borderline trolling.

TwinStick said:
Sup Karda, long time it seems. The one that instantly comes to my mind is the one you let me chop with 3 yrs ago at the Knife Gathering. The BirGorkha Bowie ?

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-7333098713883_2212_1353729
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Ang Khola Bowie to be exact, my friend. I still remember the look on your face when you brought her back to me. :D I was seriously bummed that I couldnt attend last year. I really enjoyed meeting all you fine folks....well... except for the extreme hayfever, hangover and sunburn....
But actually I was referring mostly to my 18" ang khola. I will still prefer to use it for chopping over a hatchet, but I will agree that an axe is still necessary for splitting in the quantities necessary. The khukuri just doesn't have mass enough to split wood in one blow that I need and if i'm going to put something thru that abuse, it's going to be my axe/maul. For camping and trekking my 18" will always be at my side. It'll chop, It'll baton. Makes a heckuva draw knife too. Couple it with it's accessory knives and a fixed blade or folder and I have all the tools I need to survive.
 
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If batoning is done properly, there is no risk to the knife.
Problems arise when people use poor technique or are too ambitious.
I use batoning to split wood for kindling I find as a rule of thumb that the maximum diameter of the wood to be split should be no more that 1/3 the length of the blade.
It's just another skill for a competent woodsman to learn.
 
Good Lord, that's your reason for batonning? 'cause I can't use me an ax' Instead of practicing batonning, learn to use an ax like a real man.I can hit a crack in the face of a 30" round log with a large splitting maul every time. It takes practice. I've been doing it since I was 9. I'd love to see anyone split a log that big into 10 perfectly sized pieces with a knife.
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The, ah . . ., "real man" who taught me in 1962 how to "split wood with a knife," was a Marine Master Gunnery Sargent. I no longer recall what ribbons he wore but he was a WW II and Korean War vet who had served since 1941 with the First Marine Division. (He also showed the class how easy it was to break a Mk II with poor technique.)

I remain unconvinced that 'real manhood" is relevant to this discussion of tool usage, unless it is proposed that we gnaw wood into lengths. It would take a "real man" to endure the resulting splinters in the gums.

I rarely carry a splitting maul when backpacking, but I will take it under advisement.
 
zzyzzogeton, why would anyone drive over 60 mph in a small sedan or a pick up truck, when a Porche 911 handles that speed so much better?
 
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