Why baton or chop with a knife?

[KuRUpTD]

Why does this topic always get the blood boiling ??? different strokes and all that.

There is no RIGHT or WRONG, but one thing is certain, I don't need to justify to anyone what I do with MY knives.

MY money, my knife, like it or not

 

[Revolverrodger]

Now that I actualy learned to use an axe properly I use my knives much less to chop. But I still use them to baton through smaller pieces of wood.
I think it's the ideal combo:
Small forest axe (chop / split)
Full tang 4-5'' blade knife (slice rope food etc... / batton smaller wood)

 

[unit]

Why does this topic always get the blood boiling ??? different strokes and all that.

Good question, but it always does.

It's like one of those train wreck 'reality' shows. Everyone knows its going to be hard to watch, but they tune in anyway.

I have a hard time thinking I ought to get upset about how someone else uses their toys...

 

[zzyzzogeton]

zzyzzogeton, why would anyone drive over 60 mph in a small sedan or a pick up truck, when a Porche 911 handles that speed so much better?

Because I have yet to see the Porsche capable of hauling 30+ bales of hay at any speed.

Now, granted, that many bales had better be strapped down REAL TIGHT, even on a truck.

Why, our much "maligned/over-adored/pick your adjective" governor of Texas, Rick Perry, in one of his moments of glory in thanking Toyota for building their pick-up factory in San Antonio, said "....because you can't haul a bale of hay in a Prius." (visualize big ole s#$%-eating grin on his face). And then a local newspaper columnist proceeded to prove him wrong by putting SEVEN bales in a Prius and still being able to drive it (not comfortably, admittedly).

So, different people do things different ways. Oh, Well... that's life.

Way off-topic, but hey, it's my thread.

We now take you back to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[suedeface]

Seems like a lot of people have a lot of time on their hands, and a lot of disposable income. I can't see myself beating the hell out of a good knife unless it was an actual survival situation. However, if someone wants to abuse and possibly break their own knife, just be sure to put it on youtube so I can laugh at their dumb asses!

 

[KuRUpTD]

I can't see myself beating the hell out of a good knife unless it was an actual survival situation. However, if someone wants to abuse and possibly break their own knife, just be sure to put it on youtube so I can laugh at their dumb asses!

Some companies, such as ESEE, stand by their product, have an ironclad guaranty and will replace the knife if said breakage were to occur.

 

[blame it on god]

Seems like a lot of people have a lot of time on their hands, and a lot of disposable income. I can't see myself beating the hell out of a good knife unless it was an actual survival situation. However, if someone wants to abuse and possibly break their own knife, just be sure to put it on youtube so I can laugh at their dumb asses!

Why so angry?

Some companies, such as ESEE, stand by their product, have an ironclad guaranty and will replace the knife if said breakage were to occur.

ESEE, Busse and Kin plus many other companies don't even consider it abuse to baton a knife. They encourage it!

 

[Shotgun]

OP, post this in the hatchet and ax subforum and they'll give you logical and sensible answers. You nailed it, though. Some folks are proud of beating a knife into a twig to make kindling. The rest of us use a hatchet and have time left to enjoy the fire.

I gave up on hatchets for car camping because they're SLOWER than using my knife. I can fiddle with a hatchet for 10 minutes or I can spend 5 minutes with a knife. I'm a pretty lazy guy so if a hatchet was faster I'd still be using it.

To the OP: My simple anwer is that my knife combined with a saw is faster, safer, and requires less energy to get a fire going than a hatchet while being LIGHTER to carry. So I really don't understand the whole "right tool for the job" response.

 

[Thomas Linton]

zzyzzogeton, why would anyone drive over 60 mph in a small sedan or a pick up truck, when a Porche 911 handles that speed so much better?

I dunno; because you need to go over 60 mph and do not have a Porche 911?

 

[Thomas Linton]

Seems like a lot of people have a lot of time on their hands, and a lot of disposable income. I can't see myself beating the hell out of a good knife unless it was an actual survival situation. However, if someone wants to abuse and possibly break their own knife, just be sure to put it on youtube so I can laugh at their dumb asses!

Here's an alternative. Don't beat the hell of of the knife or abuse it. I am fairly sure that if you absolutely had to baton, you would do so with due regard for the tool. At least you sound like such a person.

 

[upnorth]

I have basicly every type of cutting, sawing, chopping tool that I will ever need for the outdoors. But I do not always want to lug a lot of steel around. Sometimes simply having a belt knife like a Becker BK-2 or ESEE-6 will meet all of my needs for a day hike\evening camp fire.

 

[jimh0220]

Probably because if you asked most lumberjacks they couldn't tell the difference between a Ghurka and a Pineapple?
Probably because until a certain manufacturer started making them specifically for the purposes outlined here, most khukuri were tourist khukuri and considered junk. I invite you to bring your axe and hatchet and I will match you with my khukuri. We will see who finishes first and who is the most tired. Yes, I can prove what I say.

As to your posting? you need to tone it down a little it is borderline trolling.

So claiming all lumberjack would not know what type of knives are what, therefore questioning their intelligence, and bragging as to your chopping superiority is different from my tone? Hello pot, my name is kettle, I guess. I would gladly take your challenge, were it possible, all other things being equal. But I guess we'll just have to wonder, eh? Explain why 'lumberjacks' don't baton when doing their profession. I grew up in a logging town, and could tell you why: wrong tool for the job.

I know there are chopping contests out there. A very cool competition with highly specialized tools for sure. I'm sure if you put the people that excel at that against those who excel at using an axe, you would have a great contest. But the average joe would not be that proficient with either, therefore giving the advantage to the best tool, which history has proven is an axe over a knife. BTW, those bladesport competitors are not batoning.

 

[Kuttrs]

For one thing, I find chopping with a knife much easier. Splitting wood with an axe or hatchet takes a bit more precision. Knives are more maneuverable in my mind. As far as people cutting other things like chains and such, I think there's no need to complain when the knife breaks, since they aren't intended to cut things like that... but then again, you could argue that knives are meant to "cut stuff", and they could apply those materials to the "stuff" the knife should be able to cut...

 

[jimh0220]

Why does this topic always get the blood boiling ??? different strokes and all that.

There is no RIGHT or WRONG, but one thing is certain, I don't need to justify to anyone what I do with MY knives.

MY money, my knife, like it or not

Because some folks seem to think that the only way to cut wood is with a knife. Knives have limitations. They will do the job on smaller wood for sure. But folks generalize that it then applies to all wood chopping. So it then becomes an ego thing (I can do it and you can't). It also starts up the argument of whose tool is better, a common argument for men. To some, a large blade is more of the one tool option, therefore making it better. To others, not brining a large or small ax is unthinkable, because they find it so useful. Same with saws. I really is up to the user what they prefer. And a time for each to be the better tool. Just like the knife as SD option, everyone wants to be right, and usually most everyone is because the right answer is more than one answer.

 

[jimh0220]

.

The, ah . . ., "real man" who taught me in 1962 how to "split wood with a knife," was a Marine Master Gunnery Sargent. I no longer recall what ribbons he wore but he was a WW II and Korean War vet who had served since 1941 with the First Marine Division. (He also showed the class how easy it was to break a Mk II with poor technique.)

I remain unconvinced that 'real manhood" is relevant to this discussion of tool usage, unless it is proposed that we gnaw wood into lengths. It would take a "real man" to endure the resulting splinters in the gums.

I rarely carry a splitting maul when backpacking, but I will take it under advisement.

Because your gunny was teaching you to make due with the tool you carried. Had an ax been a choice, I can't imagine they would use knife. Any ax of hatchet, which can also do the job as well, will outchop a knife as well. And many folks carry one of those. Although, considering you can't stand a log on its end or hit it with an axe, you should stick with a knife. Why bother perfecting another skill that is more versatile?

 

[scwareuroi]

I don't think anyone who batons or chops is advocating or suggesting that they use their knife to take down large trees and split huge logs like an axe. (Not that some knives cant handle that, and certainly a khuk could handle most of it no problem). And everyone knows that one swing of an axe can split a large log in half with ease and can take down LARGE trees a lot easier than a knife. No one said it couldnt.

People baton or chop limbs, small to medium pieces of wood or trees, and sometimes larger stuff with a knife or khuk, that an axe would be too much for or wouldnt necessarily perform any better at, sometimes even worse. They are or can be heavy, less accurate, unwieldy, more dangerous, and are overkill for anything but the largest trees.

I'm relatively young so i dont know using knives to chop back in the day. But i know for a fact that a lot of knives are made today with the intention or at least the understanding that they will be used to baton and chop. Some are marketed as such. There is no arguing that. So if you want to hold on to your axe, and use it, that's fine. I can appreciate the fact that people like and use hatchets or axes. But knives and khuks can be used for most of the same tasks.

In my opinion, unless your trying to take down a tree that is just massive, or simply split very large logs in half i feel like an axe is unnecessary. But then, an argument could be made for the chainsaw..

Also, i never see a thread about OMG WHY DO PEOPLE STILL USE AXES AND HATCHETS. KNIVES AND KHUKS CAN DO ALL THE SAME THINGS JUST AS WELL OR BETTER. Its always the other way around.. like we are threatening your way of life or something.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Because your gunny was teaching you to make due with the tool you carried. Had an ax been a choice, I can't imagine they would use knife. Any ax of hatchet, which can also do the job as well, will outchop a knife as well. And many folks carry one of those. Although, considering you can't stand a log on its end or hit it with an axe, you should stick with a knife. Why bother perfecting another skill that is more versatile?

Making do is the point.

An axe will often outchop a knife, except when the knife is better. Hence traditional chopping knives all over the world. And if you have an axe.

Not sure about the next sentences. You seem to by trying for an insult. Try perfecting that. You need more work.

 

[Shotgun]

To some, a large blade is more of the one tool option, therefore making it better.

I actually think the axe is the most versatile option and would choose it if I could only have one tool. The problem is two fold.
1) Axes are heavy and for what little kindling I need it doesn't make sense to lug around an axe when my mora can handle the job just fine. In a decade of using this technique I have yet to break any knife. Even the thin blade sitck tang mora.

2) I don't have to stick to a one tool option so I carry a saw. Chopping cross grain is a fools errand in both camps. The only chopping that makes sense to me in a camping scenario is limbing small branches so they don't stick out of the fire to trip people. YMMV

 

[dragonsprayer]

Your question has sort of a troll-like nuance, and I'm not a chopper or battoner, but
Battoning could be theoretically used to get to the dry wood inside when the outside is wet...
Some like to test their skills in case the need ever arises.
I see you are new here, how you present your questions will have a big effect on the tone of the answers....

i thought it was good question - i own a lot of knives and baton very little

1) too learn the skill and test your knife incase that is all you have
2) too tell which knife is the best in an emergency
3) too remind you that an axe is better so use an axe!

bottoning was not taught in scouts so i use an axe! but if you with your survival bag, bug out pack - i have one. Then you need to learn the skill and test the tools.

If your stuck in snow storm you can make fire with small kit and your survival knife

 

[dragonsprayer]

I actually think the axe is the most versatile option and would choose it if I could only have one tool. The problem is two fold.
1) Axes are heavy and for what little kindling I need it doesn't make sense to lug around an axe when my mora can handle the job just fine. In a decade of using this technique I have yet to break any knife. Even the thin blade sitck tang mora.

2) I don't have to stick to a one tool option so I carry a saw. Chopping cross grain is a fools errand in both camps. The only chopping that makes sense to me in a camping scenario is limbing small branches so they don't stick out of the fire to trip people. YMMV

the new hawk axe from CRKT is on my short list! read the review
google:
survival crkt axe pat

my pack has a cheap gerber saw and pruner set, extra blade came with it, and i added a small folder. again this is for fast shelter you can prune branches fast too make a fast sheater and saw the large supports of lean too or tee-pee type.

my pack is folding saw - you should have a few of these. i have one in my shed box, one in my hunting stuff and in my pack i have a set with a pruner (for shelter fast), folding saw and a skelly folder - it is gerber set i added the knife

axe plus a small knife

best option is always more then one knife, small pocket, cheap survival that just few bucks and wrapped with para cord. i think a knife would be a better opition but this is very difficult subject since it depends where you are. if florida i take a knife in alaska an axe