Why Baton?

[Hammer67]

Why do you hate on the Dutch So?

 

[y53p]

It’s nice to baton if the wood is damp on the outside (for which, peeling off the bark isn’t always a solution depending on how wet/moist it is), and even if it’s not, it allows you to get a nice, angled wedge of wood from which you can carve feathers much more comfortably and with finer curls. It’s also nice to baton a thinner log if it’s not too big but you still want to get curlier/drier curls, as a hatchet tends to be unwieldy for smaller logs, at least in my personal, unprofessional, experience. I do carry a hatchet anyways though, even if I’m carrying a large(r) knife, as it’s just overall better for chopping larger logs, and I’m just not gonna baton a knife through some crazy thick and knotty piece of wood, no matter how big, thick or whether or not it has an exposed full tang. And even in a ““survival”” situation, you wouldn’t baton anything too crazy, regardless of what knife you were you using, as you wouldn’t wanna risk breaking your only tool, and no, a full tang doesn’t mean unbreakable, guys broke bk9’s and Trailmasters through batoning, while some put their Mora’s and Buck’s through the same process and such knives came back unscathed; removing HT, blade geometry, steel used and build type, batoning is really just pushing your luck, however way you put it, but it has its advantages, as previously stated.

 

[Smaug]

As @Knives&Lint mentioned, I found-out about batoning many-many moons, before I even knew what it was called...and I was almost an instant convert.

For me and my particular "adventures", it was precise and efficient, and just a helluva' lot safer in my humble opinion.

Safer than what? Using twigs, like I suggested?

Dry sticks, eh?

Major storm, surrounding county flooded.
Whittling some wet bark wouldn't have cut it.

Instead, I used the knife in the pic to cut poles, and we set up a tarp structure (dollar store tarps, two of them).
My brother and I grabbed a bunch of wood, standing deadwood preferred.
Split the wood under the tarp structure, mainly with his RD-9.
When all wood was prepared, set up the firewood structure and got it going.

Ah, good point there. When it's a real soaker, you're saying none of the sticks were dry enough to burn, even after whittling the outer layer down?

Where'd you get the cinder blocks out in the wilds like that?

I buy wood generally for camping. Because there is no firewood at the camp site. Now I could buy logs and then buy kindling or I could baton logs and save some bucks.

A very good point. Applies more to camping than simulating a "stranded in the wild" situation.

Otherwise trying to make a little portable wood stove work. Almost always needs batoned wood.

Just yesterday, I got a portable wood stove going after it raining half the day without any split dry wood. Just twigs I found in the vicinity, with the bark whittled off. The smallest twigs, maybe 1/8 to 1/4" were soaked through; useless. Anything larger, with thicker bark and it was no problem. Full disclosure: I was using a Tumbleweed to start them, not dry shavings with ferro rod. Many would call that "cheating", just like buying wood is "cheating". :-D

Yes it is a way to get dry wood when everything is wet. But you don't stop there, the next step is to featherstick that dry wood which is suitable for use with a ferro rod.
But i always check the weather and if it will rain i just stay at home. So i always use a foldable twig stove, no knife needed.

I don't think a ferro rod will light feather stick shavings. You need something finer, like the wood dust scraped off with the sharp 90° spine of a knife, dryer lint, etc.

I baton for kindling only. Safer than an axe when the pieces are small.
I use an axe on the bigger stuff.

...but my question was why split wood at all? Just use twigs. It seems like the only REAL reason to baton is to get to dry wood in very wet conditions or when only the thicker wood is available. (ex. camping and have to bring purchased wood) The rest of the time, just use the right size branch or log for the fire.

I guess it all comes down to: "What are we trying to simulate when we're starting a fire outside of "civilization?"" There are many different levels:

1) Planned; bring a lighter and tinder from home and maybe even dry wood from home
2) Planned, but traveling light: bring a lighter and tinder from home, but plan on finding and processing the rest in the field. (this is what I've been doing with my collapsible wood stove)
3) Unplanned, but with the assumption that a knife and fire steel are on one's person
4) Unplanned, but with the assumption that a knife only is on one's person (got to make a bow & drill)
5) Unplanned with nothing (yikes)

Maybe there are some in-between levels too?

 

[BlindMouse2of3]

I put whittling twigs down in the same category as battoning for kindling.

Ferro rods start feather sticks all the time. It's the reason to make a feather sticks. If your pieces are to large then it won't work. If it doesn't work you need to adjust the size of your feathers. It's another skill to practice. And they are all perishable.

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

Safer than what? Using twigs, like I suggested?


Ah, good point there. When it's a real soaker, you're saying none of the sticks were dry enough to burn, even after whittling the outer layer down?

Where'd you get the cinder blocks out in the wilds like that?



A very good point. Applies more to camping than simulating a "stranded in the wild" situation.


Just yesterday, I got a portable wood stove going after it raining half the day without and split dry wood. Just twigs I found in the vicinity, with the bark whittled off. The smallest twigs, maybe 1/8 to 1/4" were soaked through; useless. Anything larger, with thicker bark and it was no problem. Full disclosure: I was using a Tumbleweed to start them, not dry shavings with ferro rod. Many would call that "cheating", just like buying wood is "cheating". :-D



I don't think a ferro rod will light feather stick shavings. You need something finer, like the wood dust scraped off with the sharp 90° spine of a knife, dryer lint, etc.


...but my question was why split wood at all? Just use twigs. It seems like the only REAL reason to baton is to get to dry wood in very wet conditions or when only the thicker wood is available. (ex. camping and have to bring purchased wood) The rest of the time, just use the right size branch or log for the fire.

Doesn't even have to be "very" wet, moisture in general.. humidity. A lot of perfectly valid reason to baton and also plenty of occasions when it can be avoided.

 

[stabman]

Safer than what? Using twigs, like I suggested?


Ah, good point there. When it's a real soaker, you're saying none of the sticks were dry enough to burn, even after whittling the outer layer down?

Where'd you get the cinder blocks out in the wilds like that?

No, the sticks were too wet.
Perhaps if we had spent hours sitting under the tarp structure--soaking wet, because we were--whittling away at sticks, we could have got a small fire going. Sounds awful.

Most of the cinderblocks were carried in about a kilometer on previous trips. There were 2 cinderblocks in the woods at an abandoned camp I found while doing the 2010 ESEE Knives survival challenge. 6 of us entered...I won nothing.

There were some piles of cinderblocks, bricks, and clay things near the trailhead. We carried some out on previous trips as in 13 years of going there, we have found TWO sizeable rocks. Two.
We have begun bringing rocks with us out there in recent years. Partially because the cinderblocks and bricks have largely returned to the Earth from which they came...and partially so people on Bladeforums will stop asking me about the cinderblocks in the woods...

Around here there are no large tracts of pristine wilderness. Centuries of agriculture and industry have seen to that.
In the Provincial Park and nature preserve on the outskirts of town, you can certainly find various building supplies while walking through what at first looks very natural.

 

[snuffle]

Wait a minute...

All this time I thought we were talking about

 

[ferider]

On a serious note, I find it‘s useful for making kindling for home stove or when camping. I know how to use an axe, but have more control and feel safer with a large knife.

It has nothing to do with survival/bushcraft skills (whatever those are). If you check out online batoning pictures or videos, almost all will use wood that was sawed before. Yet nobody ever shows you the saw they used because a chainsaw doesn’t fit the story.

Most knives work as long as they are large enough. Some better than others.

 

[stabman]

On a serious note, I find it‘s useful for making kindling for home stove or when camping. I know how to use an axe, but have more control and feel safer with a large knife.

It has nothing to do with survival/bushcraft skills (whatever those are). If you check out online batoning pictures or videos, almost all will use wood that was sawed before. Yet nobody ever shows you the saw they used because a chainsaw doesn’t fit the story.

!3 inch pull saw is what we have always used.

Picture:

Making that club was the project of the day. Didn't use it to baton anything. Used ugly stick for that purpose.

We have batonned plenty of not sawn wood as well. Find it on the ground and split it. As long as it isn't too long, works great!
Guess next time out to the woods I'll have to get pictures of not sawn wood being batonned, since it is an internet rarity.

 

[stabman]

Saw from other time:

And blurry, smoky picture of batonning a non-sawn log/chunk of wood that was laying around on the ground:

 

[BlindMouse2of3]

Large knife doesn't throw the kindling either. A bk9 and a rubber mallet. And I can comfortably baton kindling at counter height. I used a hatchet for awhile but the bit will sometimes drift forward or back and then you have to pull and readjust.

I have a small solo stove and 1 the size of a #10 can. I like to prep a 5 gallon bucket of tiny pieces for a spur of the moment fire. Great for when playing outside in the winter with the daughter who doesn't want to go inside to warm up for fear of loosing the outside because her gear warmed up and got soaked.

 

[Smaug]

Wait a minute...

All this time I thought we were talking about

View attachment 2354002

Suddenly, I'm a much bigger fan of batoning!

That is one ENORMOUS woman, though!

 

[Byrom Hermo]

Didn’t read this whole thread. Just stopped in to say that my favorite Baton videos are the ones where the guy has an axe on his belt while he’s beating the crap out of his folder.

 

[stabman]

Suddenly, I'm a much bigger fan of batoning!

That is one ENORMOUS woman, though!

She just pulls entire dead trees apart for you.
No need for splitting tools...she can use her fingernails.

 

[oldmanwilly]

Where does this fit into the discussion?

https://imgur.com/6uwKOTb

I guess it's not relevant since there's no baton involved.

 

[ShaiHulud]

It seems to be a "standard test" to a lot of reviewers.

When I go out to build a fire, I would rather just pick up smaller sticks than split larger wood with my knife. If it's wet, I whittle off the bark. I haven't had any problems yet.

What am I missing?

Time for an unpopular opinion,
"batoning" is a rather new phenomenon, people will justify it by saying "what if your ax broke/got lost/unionized and refused to work without pay" and so therefore knife-into-wood. I guess it's possible to overswing and break the handle, but the instances of that happening isn't common at all, my bruks handle took all kinds of mishits right under the axe head without any signs of splitting and if you get a fiberglass handle or something similar then the instance of breaking your handle is even less so
What about the axe head, they can break!
I've had a 10 dollar Orchard hatchet that had lots of edge damage, knicks, rolling, etc from striking knots in wood, river rocks and the like, never broke. So to stop talking ill end with: I don't really believe in batoning as a necessity, more like --- "look what I can do!" -Stuart

 

[bikerector]

The 1st time I heard of batoning, someone batoned with a hatchet. That was either before youtube or very early on in it's life. I heard it from a group canoe touring with a family, that included young kids, and didn't want to swing a hatchet around camp.

 

[stabman]

Time for an unpopular opinion,
"batoning" is a rather new phenomenon,

Isn't new at all.
People just used to call it "splitting wood with a knife", and didn't really talk about it at all, because people lived life rather than being on the internet (since, you know, the internet did not exist ).

And what about the Froe, a "knife" built specifically for splitting wood to form shingles?

What is new is YouTube, and trying to find a way to get views.
If you aren't an attractive woman, or have interesting opinions people care about, why not try bashing a knife through wood that is extra large on video? Bonus points if you manage to break it, because then people might even think your opinion is worth caring about!

 

[beeinak]

Saw from other time:

And blurry, smoky picture of batonning a non-sawn log/chunk of wood that was laying around on the ground:

Just a question- why are you holding the brake on the saw? I run saws a lot, and have been fortunate to not need the kick-back brake feature except for a couple of times, but it is a nice safety feature.

 

[stabman]

Just a question- why are you holding the brake on the saw? I run saws a lot, and have been fortunate to not need the kick-back brake feature except for a couple of times, but it is a nice safety feature.

Not my saw.
I don't have a chainsaw, so once I figured out what to squeeze to make it go, I just grabbed the saw and started cutting wood. First and only time I used one was that day.
Still have my limbs, so it worked out, okay.