Why brick and mortar shops are failing....

Just remember--don't be afraid to haggle! Just because an item is priced the way it is doesn't mean you can't get it for internet pricing. Just ask! They can always get another one. As long as they're still making something they'd be foolish not to accept. Some money is better than none.
 
I agree I've seen Spydercos like the Scorpius go for 200+ at a downtown Toronto MA store!! Thats friggin rediculous, along with SS Enduras and Delicas for 150 Dollars...Of course you can haggle but c'mon...Additionally the selection sucks, no new Spyderco models. I've also seen a Buck Strider made in Taiwan priced at 200 dollars at a downtown Army Surplus store. Can you imagine that?!? I ll stick to the BF Exchange, Ebay and Warriors and Wonders in BC...
 
Many of you have come up with answers that are partially correct but unless you have owned a B&M store you don't really understand everything that goes into it. I am sure there are some that fail because of some of the reasons stated but even those who try to compete with internet prices fail as well because in order to compete they normally lose money. Biggest reason is overhead, rent, insurance on the building, insurance for product liability, payroll...you can't make a living on 10% over cost...I know because my father and I had a B&M store. When Wal-Mart built 300 yard away directly across the road from us we knew we where screwed and rather than go broke trying to meet their prices we closed. Collectors and knowledgeable knife people only make up about 7-8% of the market. The rest of the people will go where ever the prices are cheapest not caring they are not getting the same quality items at the mart-marts. They are what kill B&M specialty stores, not the internet sales.
 
Artfully Martial said:
What's really bizarre about this is that I know of quite competitive B&Ms. The local one here, which is a combination gun shop, has a moderately good selection (lots of BM + Kershaw, nothing else) and the prices are about 15% more than a good online store. So it's a bit curious that other places want to charge 120% more...
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From my experiences, knives in a gun shop tend to be less expensive than knives in a knife shop. The reason is the number of knives they sell and the inventory they keep is both relatively low. Guns are their business and where their profit comes from. They can afford to sell knives below MSRP when they're making 30%+ profit on a fire arm.

That said, I still won't buy from them. The last time I was in an actual knife shop was at least three years ago. I was looking at a Spyderco Manix with a price tag of nearly $300, nice knife but not a $300 knife. This was when I was in the market for a new EDC and had decided on the BM710. The store had one and I handled it, looked at the price tag and decided I'd purchase online. They wanted $225 for a $170 MSRP knife. I paid less than $110.

The only way I'd consider buying in a store is if I could get the knife + tax for equal to or less than the cost of the knife + shipping online. I'm all for supporting the local economy, but only to a point.
 
Ozy said:
All the time, and this is why I only buy from O/S (Well when i come across someone who's willing to deal with me), EBAY, or this forum.

King of Knives over here wanted $226.00 AUD for a BYRD CARA CARA, to give a current example.
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X2 about King of knives, they have a leatherman charge for like $300AUD lol.
 
We have a rare Brick and mortar shop in Vancouver that has online prices instore. Warriors and Wonders. Say hi to Jay (BladesCanada on the forum) if your ever there.
 
My local shop, which has a website, is very competitive with web shops. They also carry a huge inventory of custom knives. I think that brick and mortar shops can stay in business if they provide a value add. My local shop also does top notch sharpening including convex slack belt etc. Some of their knives may be more than online shops but the shipping differential and the benefit of trying before buying and coverage for defects make brick and mortar very appealing. Also some of you might try supporting your local businesses.
 
jill jackson said:
I've seen 2 shops in my area that sold knives in any quantity.
One carried a lot of cheap stuff and some higher end that they almost always charged full retail for, they are out of business.
The other has firearms and sells name brand knives at a discount and they are still going strong, but it's the firearms that carry them I rarely ever see anyone looking at the knives there.
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You need to go to Cecil Clark's in Newport :)

You can thank me later. :D
 
I was in a ma-pa B&M gun store recently. They had a 'Needs Work' for $35 - not a bad price. I stopped my purchase when I noticed how much their guns and ammo had gone up. They are part of the problem in this 'profiteering' over the mad dash to buy guns and ammo before legislation makes many such purchases a thing of the past. I don't begrudge anyone their livelihood - but profiteering is wrong. A great indicator is when even very old stock goes up to current prices. I won't support that - I still want a 'Needs Work', but I'll order it!

Stainz
 
Why? Because they have to charge more to pay for their brick and mortar location. We saw them same thing with guns back before the ATF tightened up the licensing requirements. How many of you guys know somebody who had an FFL and sold guns for the old "cost + 10%" deal just to support his firearms habit? How many of these online cutlery retailers are actually run out of someone's garage or out of a commercial establishment whose primary business has nothing to do with cutlery? Places like the Cav Store and BQ seem to have shifted over to online sales. Warehouse space costs a lot less than retail space. There is a nice little knife store on Pier 39 in San Francisco called We Be Knives and a BIG shop in Ft. Worth called House Of Blades. We Be Knives charges MSRP because they have to in order to afford that space (and they probably have to keep an attorney in retainer at all times) and House of Blades, while not charging full retail, is a fair bit more pricey than the online guys because they have a huge shop on the north side of Ft. Worth and a small one down in the Stockyards. A number of shops that used to be pretty well known are gone. It appears that The Acorn in Gatlinburg is no longer open and Cumberland Knife And Gun Works in Fayetteville has apparently been gone for a while. Stoddards in Boston still has a web site up, but all it says tis that they are moving. Places like Ranger Joes, Cav Store and BQ don't carry anything like the inventory that they used to. What I wonder is where people who are not already knife knuts get to check out new stuff unless they have a number of friends who collect?
 
The best example I have is I paid $170 for my Skirmish online and the local Sportsman's Warehouse, which is typically the cheapest gun store in town by FAR (I know we're talking knives here but that point is still pertinant) has it in their case for $220. A $50 difference. Without shipping, minus tax, it's still about $46 bucks cheaper online than at Sportsman's even. $46 buys me lunch for 3-5 days.
 
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The biggest thing I see is that it's next to impossible to run a b&m store that only has knives. The market (while large) is not large enough to cover costs. However, when you already carry other items, knives are an excellent way to boost sales by adding more useful things for your customer to buy--and it's not hard to convince the average person they should be carrying a knife on a frequent basis.
 
I'm not sure I've ever had the option of buying from a true cutlery store. I think the only one in my entire state is in Louisville and they mostly sell high-end kitchen knives.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Just remember--don't be afraid to haggle! Just because an item is priced the way it is doesn't mean you can't get it for internet pricing. Just ask! They can always get another one. As long as they're still making something they'd be foolish not to accept. Some money is better than none.
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I agree. A little something is a whole lot better than alot of nothing. It took me years to haggle because I hated when someone would do that to me day after day.

What I do is pick ten places to buy. Average the price and go to the place I prefer to spend my money. I ask if they will sell for that calculated price and 99% of the time they do. Works best if you pick 5 dealers that are just dirt cheap. The rest average to high. The dealer needs to make some $$$,
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
As knife geek said, though, most folks seem perfectly content to pay the extra premium for the chance to handle hundreds of top-quality knives and have our experienced staff guide them to the right knife for their purchases.
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Yeah, well, the 800-lb. gorilla in the room is the sad fact that many people avail themselves of shopping in a B&M store and then ordering online. It makes me angry when my wife goes to Barnes & Noble and reads various books and drinks coffee, then wants to buy them from Amazon.com. Fortunately, she needs me for that, and I make her buy her books at Barnes & Noble when she browses there.
 
Actually have a knife store in the town where I work. I have been there three times, the last was to have some knives sharpened, still learning how to do that for myself. While there I looked thru the assortment offered and had some nice conversation with the sales clerk. When mentioning Benchmade I said that most offerings from the company were higher priced than what I am comfortable carrying in my pocket. (Lets face it, I loose things.) The clerk showed me a Monochrome model, stating it is the best of the imported Benchmade line, priced at $60. When I checked online I found suggested retail was listed at $50 and most online stores had them priced at about $35. If it had been priced at $45, 10% off from suggested retail instead of 20% over suggested retail, I would have bought from the store. Instead I buy my knives at gunshows/knifeshows and online, primarily thru the auction sites. I would love to be able to support a local store but I am not paying a premium to do it.
 
Just to jump in here after reading around, I'd like to toss in my .02

When I had my bright idea to start my own small business run out of my apartment, I figured it would be a piece of cake and as long as I had some capital to keep it all going I'd be in knife knut heaven.......but I was wrong :(

I learned quickly that internet prices have all of us spoiled rotten. A lot of those magical prices that are seen on evilbay and other places are selling almost right at dealer cost minus the shipping. It's almost like having a store front right outside wally world and trying to hold your ground. To actually make a sale I have to price things so low that I only come out with MAYBE $5 on top of all the shipping, small order fees if I don't have it next to me, etc.....

Even though I can order just about anything I want and just tax myself for keeping it, I still go to a local Mom and Pops store in Corpus Christi (my hometown) called Smith's Guns. I've been going there since I was a kid and the owner(s) are quiet but knowledgeable. Their prices aren't too shabby and I still buy from them once in a while just to show my support. I recently bought a pouch with a sharpening rod attached to it for my Vic Farmer. I knew I could get it for a few dollars less, but for supporting a local store and saving myself the shipping and wait hassle I bought it right then and there and stuck it on my belt. Remember, these shops have all of this stuff pre-paid and in house for your convenience. The moment the stuff is in their shop, they own it and have money invested in it. Until they sell it, they are in the negatives.

In my area that I'm at now, I'd still love to open up a store front. I think it would boom in my area (mostly farmers, hunters, and fisherman as the local population). It's all of the costs of rent, electricity, running it, etc....that would have me a little worried. If I had a storefront I'd probably charge near MSRP too just to stay afloat. Remember, those mom and pop shops don't only have the rent of the location, but they have homes, cars, and lives outside of that shop to pay for as well.

Now, I can understand not wanting to pay a whole lot over what something is worth. A place selling for over MSRP is just trying to get rich a little too fast. As stated earlier, most of these shops customer base has little to no knowledge of what they are buying. A shop can charge MSRP to a customer who doesn't know any better.

Okay, my rant is over :D
 
There is a reasonably well stocked knife store in my city, but the sales people working there seem to know less about their merchandise than I, even though I am no expert. But shopping there does give me the opportunity to handle stuff that otherwise I would have no access to, which is a big plus. In return for the hands-on experience, I will occasionally buy something there, even though it would cost less from an on-line retailer. Back when I was mulling over Delica vs. Native, having the ability to handle both settled the matter (Delica). Even at a higher price than the same from the internet, it was well worth it to me. Otherwise, I would have bought blind, always wondering if I had made the right choice (I made the right choice :)). So I buy from them often as possible, avoiding the really outrageously marked up items, and hope they stay in business.
 
The only knife store near me is Nordic Knives
They seem to be doing ok
I don't think the rent in Solvang is necessarily cheap either

I think part of the problem is the "freerider problem":
Guy goes into a knife store
Has the salesman show him all the features and pluses of some knives
"Ok..Thanks for your help...I might come back on pay day.."
Guy goes home and hops on The Net to find the LOWEST price for the knife he wants (that the salesman showed him)
 
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