Why de-assist?

Personally, I associate assisted opening as a bandaid for poor pivot action. If the knife is made properly, it will open smoothly as a manual knife and AO is just unnecessary. I like knives that are made so well that they glide open and glide closed. Realistically, I am never in a situation where I need to open the knife SUPER FAST BOOM SNAP OPEN - and if I were often in that situation, I would just carry my Kershaw-Emerson 4KXL more often and use the wave feature.

Assisted knives just remind me of crap flea market knives. I started paying more for knives for better materials and quality control, and I feel like AO doesn't have much place in a quality knife. It just makes it a more involved process to close.

Paradoxically, though, I have a blossoming love for automatic knives. /shrug
 
brancron said:
Has anyone else here had the chance to handle a Ken Onion custom? The way he does his torsion bars (they have a gentle assist on an already super-smooth knife) is so different from what you get with production assisted openers, it's quite amazing.
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Yes. When I flipped it open, I thought it was just a really well sorted bearing flipper. It wasn't until I closed it that I realized it was assisted.
 
To comply with laws.

Bought a certain Chinese knife online without knowing it was an AO because there was no mention of it (yes yes, should have done my homework first). Since spring-opening knives are totally illegal here, and being very lucky that it passed Customs, first order of business was to disassemble it and remove the spring.
 
I'm of the opinion that most knives are designed for how they are marketed, some to open fast, others slow, with or without spring assist.

Take ZT's for example. The 566's & 350's open with authority assisted, but many that have de assisted them have issues without some real smithing. However the newer release manuals with super smooth kvt pivots like the 562cf, 452cf, 450, & 808, open with just as much authority and speed, and with that assisted "whack" sound to go with it, with no springs involved.

I will say that some manuals like 561, 562 and such, can be opened slowly by using both the flipper and studs. But others like the 452, 450, & 808 are designed to fire just as hard and fast as many auto/assisted's. And without thumb studs or such, they will never be easy to open slow. Fast fire or nothing. [emoji2]

I tinker occasionally, but for the most part, I just like the engineered specs out of the box, or I probably won't buy it.
 
bflying said:
I'm of the opinion that most knives are designed for how they are marketed, some to open fast, others slow, with or without spring assist.

Take ZT's for example. The 566's & 350's open with authority assisted, but many that have de assisted them have issues without some real smithing. However the newer release manuals with super smooth kvt pivots like the 562cf, 452cf, 450, & 808, open with just as much authority and speed, and with that assisted "whack" sound to go with it, with no springs involved.

I will say that some manuals like 561, 562 and such, can be opened slowly by using both the flipper and studs. But others like the 452, 450, & 808 are designed to fire just as hard and fast as many auto/assisted's. And without thumb studs or such, they will never be easy to open slow. Fast fire or nothing. [emoji2]

I tinker occasionally, but for the most part, I just like the engineered specs out of the box, or I probably won't buy it.
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I generally agree - I don't typically buy assisted knives and then de-assist them. The only knife I've de-assisted and then absolutely loved was the Kershaw Echelon. It was a terrible assisted knife, but a wonderful manual knife. The pivot action and feel were so much better without the spring.

There are enough options these days, though, it hardly seems necessary to de-assist a knife.
 
I like my 0566cf de-assisted, thank you very much. I think it is a better knife de-assisted (it would be better still if it were made of Ti instead of steel).

On the other hand, I carried a Leek for YEARS and cannot imagine any version of a de-assisted Leek that would be any good. The quick snap open and ultra thin blade is what makes that knife so good.
 
I de assisted my Zt 350 with no problem. My BM 581 didn't t do as well, but I still keep it de assisted.
 
danthaman1980 said:
I like my 0566cf de-assisted, thank you very much. I think it is a better knife de-assisted (it would be better still if it were made of Ti instead of steel).

On the other hand, I carried a Leek for YEARS and cannot imagine any version of a de-assisted Leek that would be any good. The quick snap open and ultra thin blade is what makes that knife so good.
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So why a 566 instead of a 562?
 
bld522 said:
Good question. Having to overcome the spring when closing an AO knife one-handed is a complaint I hear from time to time. But like you said, I think it's mostly a matter of personal preference. For my part, I figure if the manufacturer makes a knife with a spring in it, they designed it to be that way and if I like the knife well enough to buy it, I'll leave the spring alone.
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Pretty much the way I see it. Since I almost never close a knife with one hand, the issue you mentioned never comes up for me. If I don't want an assisted opener, I don't buy one. Simple.
 
I wasn't trashing on anyone who's done it and/or enjoys it that way. Just stating that results may vary. And usually works out better by those who have experience tweaking or moding knifes.

A non-bladehead may be better off if they don't want (or legally can't carry) an assisted knife, to just pick out a model without in the first place.

I'm all for anyone so inclined to mod a knife any way they want if they have the skill set. Personally I also find it fun and enjoyable in limited cases.
 
Mostly personal preference. Personally, the only of my a/o knives I like better de-assisted are my Barrage and Mini-Barrage.
 
I own one assisted knife and if I could de-assist it, I would in a heart beat. Between the M4 and the CF scales it is essentially a wolf in sheeps clothing and the assist directly combats any thinly veiled attempt at refinement.

Nice CF pattern, check.
DLC sanded to blackwash and polished ridges to make it easier on the eyes, check
Deep carry clip, check

Loud and obnoxious thwack that reverberates throughout said CF scales, Check...
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That being said, this Still is one of my Favorite carry knives and it fights for Pocket realty with my Large 21.
I want to take a look at the detent under magnification and see if it can be drilled/filed to allow it to seat a little deeper. It has a smooth action, but not enough detent to cause it to open completely without input from the wrist...

If you have any input, please PM me so as not to derail this thread.

Thanks.
 
Comeuppance said:
Paradoxically, though, I have a blossoming love for automatic knives. /shrug
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Paradoxically indeed. ;) Would I be safe in assuming that anyone who dislikes AO knives would never carry an auto (assuming it would be legal for them to do so)? If I'm wrong about that, why would you carry an auto and not an AO? :confused:
 
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I've had both types of flippers, and both work just fine for me. There are some knives that just don't work well at all once you de-assist them. Also, I've owned some fancy manual flippers that really seemed like they needed a spring to help.
One nice folder that I really enjoy is the Southard AVO that I've carried all year. It's a manual flipper and deploys just great. Wonderful knife, IMO.
 
Quick question: I know people often say that they are worried that a torsion bar or spring might break but it has been my experience that an omega spring in a BM is more likely to break,
and people Love those (myself included, I loved every BM I have owned: 940, 943, 710, 710-1401, 556)
 
I had the chance to play with a Kershaw Leek which is a assisted knife. I did not understand why a knife that small and light (thing blade) should need any assisting at all. Negative effect was that the knife was not particularly easy to close with one hand. For "normal" use knives I have to admit that I do not understand the need for assisted opening. I rather prefer manual flipper to be made well, rather than one that needs a spring to open easily. Just my personal view based on limited experience.
 
Comeuppance said:
I generally agree - I don't typically buy assisted knives and then de-assist them. The only knife I've de-assisted and then absolutely loved was the Kershaw Echelon. It was a terrible assisted knife, but a wonderful manual knife. The pivot action and feel were so much better without the spring.
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I have to agree about the Echelon. A nice little knife once you take the bar out of it.

At this point I own two AO knives. A SOG Flash 2 that I picked up on my honeymoon and the Kershaw Echelon listed above. It is rare that they see any pocket time because I am tired of having people jump to the conclusion that I carry a switchblade. So no more assisted knives for me unless they can be de-assisted without any problems. The AO feature is what has kept me from picking up a Benchmade Volli but everyone states that they work great de-assisted.
 
I've de-assisted a Blur, 0350 and 0566. Not crazy about the results. I finally just resolved myself to thinking about them as autos with a different (non-button) opening mechanism. It made me happier.
 
Haven't de-assisted any as I have quite a few nice (to me) manual folders, including Axis locks.
The only one I've considered de-assisting is the 581, because I do see a spring as kind of neutering the Axis locks very reason for being.
But I do like the solid thwack, and I have no problem closing it one handed by holding back the lock and swiping the spine of the blade on my leg. Simple effective and safe.
 
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