Why de-assist?

[Stays Sharp]

Why de-assist?

For me the question is... why do I need assisting? I'm not disabled. Full control at all times FTW.

 

[Lycosa]

I was just going to post this.^

 

[Comeuppance]

Paradoxically indeed. Would I be safe in assuming that anyone who dislikes AO knives would never carry an auto (assuming it would be legal for them to do so)? In I'm wrong about that, why would you carry an auto and not an AO?

I see them as two separate kinds of knives - assisted knives are just that: assisted. They could easily just be manual knives, since the motion you make to open them is the same.

Automatic knives feel more like gadgets and tickle the engineer part of my brain. The mechanisms aren't typically so complex or intriguing, but a well-made auto has a great feel to it. I hated the AO on the 581s that I've held, but I love the snappy action of my protech godfather.

Even more significantly different from AO knives are double-action OTFs. I've had to realize, though, that the humid climate I live in would turn the internals of any OTF into brown fuzzy rusty caterpillars in a relatively short amount of time, so I stick to side-openers.

The difference is that an automatic knife isn't typically just a manual knife with a spring - the knife is designed around the automatic mechanism, so it's not like it's robbing you of any control. It also allows for slightly different design choices. Going back to the Protech Godfather, the ONLY way to open it is with the button. There is no thumb stud, there is no flipper, and the blade is entirely contained within the handle in a fashion that even a nail-nick couldn't be feasibly implemented.

I will say, though, that my experience with autos is making me reconsider some AO offerings I had eschewed in the past. The blackwashed aluminum Kershaw Link tanto is quickly climbing up my short list.

 

[22-rimfire]

Haven't de-assisted any as I have quite a few nice (to me) manual folders, including Axis locks.
The only one I've considered de-assisting is the 581, because I do see a spring as kind of neutering the Axis locks very reason for being.
But I do like the solid thwack, and I have no problem closing it one handed by holding back the lock and swiping the spine of the blade on my leg. Simple effective and safe.

Simple and effective, yes. I frequently close a knife by holding back the lock and closing it on my leg. That is probably the standard way I close my SAK with the side lock or a slip joint. I really don't consider that one handed closing. (one hand and one leg closing ) This is one of the reasons I don't care for liner locks as it takes two hands and effort to close for me.

 

[hatchettjack]

My volli works excellent one handed!
https://vimeo.com/138444816

 

[bld522]

I see them as two separate kinds of knives - assisted knives are just that: assisted. They could easily just be manual knives, since the motion you make to open them is the same.

Automatic knives feel more like gadgets and tickle the engineer part of my brain. The mechanisms aren't typically so complex or intriguing, but a well-made auto has a great feel to it. I hated the AO on the 581s that I've held, but I love the snappy action of my protech godfather.

Even more significantly different from AO knives are double-action OTFs. I've had to realize, though, that the humid climate I live in would turn the internals of any OTF into brown fuzzy rusty caterpillars in a relatively short amount of time, so I stick to side-openers.

The difference is that an automatic knife isn't typically just a manual knife with a spring - the knife is designed around the automatic mechanism, so it's not like it's robbing you of any control. It also allows for slightly different design choices. Going back to the Protech Godfather, the ONLY way to open it is with the button. There is no thumb stud, there is no flipper, and the blade is entirely contained within the handle in a fashion that even a nail-nick couldn't be feasibly implemented.

I will say, though, that my experience with autos is making me reconsider some AO offerings I had eschewed in the past. The blackwashed aluminum Kershaw Link tanto is quickly climbing up my short list.

I'll admit that thumbstud-activated AOs are not my favorites. OTF autos have never done anything for me either. But I find very little difference between an AO flipper like my 0770CF and a side-opening auto like my Protech Brend. The big difference is button placement. One's on the side of the handle (button) and the other's on top (flipper tab). That, by the way, pretty much explains why manufacturers decided to make AOs in the first place. It was a way for them to sell legal autos. And yes, there's a HUGE market for spring-loaded knives. That's why manufacturers keep producing them.

That also raises the question of whether non-AO bearing flippers are better than AO flippers. Once the flipper tab is depressed, I couldn't care less about "controlling" the blade opening. I just want it to open as quickly and reliably as possible. For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would consider a non-AO bearing flipper to be better at performing that function than a spring-loaded flipper. And the argument that parts will wear out faster with AOs than with non-AOs is specious as far as I'm concerned. If I buy well-made AO knives and use them as they're intended instead of prematurely wearing out their internals by compulsively opening and closing them as if they're some kind of substitute for worry beads, odds are I'll break before they do.

We could argue over the question of which opening method is most comfortable . . . buttons or flippers. But for me it's six of one, half a dozen of the other. And the idea that an AO could be legal in jurisdictions that outlaw autos is absolutely ridiculous IMO. But that's a topic for another conversation.

 

[palonej]

Personal preference I think.
I only have 2 assisted, BM 581 and a 477-1 and love them!! They fire fast and look too cool doing it!
I wouldn't de assist them just for the cool factor.
Benchmade is the only assisted I've tried tho.

 

[danthaman1980]

So why a 566 instead of a 562?

Because the 0566 is closer to my preferred EDC blade size of 3".

 

[bld522]

Please feel free to join my little 3.0" 0562CF prayer group if you like. Now that ZT has expressed a willingness to make lightweights as evidenced in the 0770CF and 0450, a 3.0" lightweight variant of the 0562CF seems like a no-brainer to us.

 

[Hotshot10]

I think I need to compare the opening of something like a 0562 to my 0566 more to see if there's much of a difference. I don't remember there being much of one, from the three or four times that I flipped a 0562 at the store before buying a 0566.

 

[Hotshot10]

Please feel free to join my little 3.0" 0562CF prayer group if you like. Now that ZT has expressed a willingness to make lightweights as evidenced in the 0770CF and 0450, a 3.0" lightweight variant of the 0562CF seems like a no-brainer to us.

Interesting. I am thinking of adding another ZT, but one that is a little lighter than the 0566. A lightweight 0562 would be intriguing.

 

[155440]

I see them as two separate kinds of knives - assisted knives are just that: assisted. They could easily just be manual knives, since the motion you make to open them is the same.

Automatic knives feel more like gadgets and tickle the engineer part of my brain. The mechanisms aren't typically so complex or intriguing, but a well-made auto has a great feel to it. I hated the AO on the 581s that I've held, but I love the snappy action of my protech godfather.

Even more significantly different from AO knives are double-action OTFs. I've had to realize, though, that the humid climate I live in would turn the internals of any OTF into brown fuzzy rusty caterpillars in a relatively short amount of time, so I stick to side-openers.

The difference is that an automatic knife isn't typically just a manual knife with a spring - the knife is designed around the automatic mechanism, so it's not like it's robbing you of any control. It also allows for slightly different design choices. Going back to the Protech Godfather, the ONLY way to open it is with the button. There is no thumb stud, there is no flipper, and the blade is entirely contained within the handle in a fashion that even a nail-nick couldn't be feasibly implemented.

I will say, though, that my experience with autos is making me reconsider some AO offerings I had eschewed in the past. The blackwashed aluminum Kershaw Link tanto is quickly climbing up my short list.

I'm in the same boat where I don't like AO but If I could legally own a protech, I would.

 

[bld522]

So if you don't mind me picking your brain a little, why do you like one kind of spring-assisted opening method and not another? The reason I ask is because I can't figure out why AO knives don't get a lot of respect around here while autos maintain if not increase their cachet. Is there really that much difference between them?

 

[Comeuppance]

So if you don't mind me picking your brain a little, why do you like one kind of spring-assisted opening method and not another? The reason I ask is because I can't figure out why AO knives don't get a lot of respect around here while autos maintain if not increase their cachet. Is there really that much difference between them?

I feel I clearly stated my position in my post at the top of this page, which addressed both the dislike for AO and my personal reasons for liking autos, which I will quote and condense to strictly the relevant points:

I see them as two separate kinds of knives - assisted knives are just that: assisted. They could easily just be manual knives, since the motion you make to open them is the same.

Automatic knives feel more like gadgets and tickle the engineer part of my brain.

Even more significantly different from AO knives are double-action OTFs.

The difference is that an automatic knife isn't typically just a manual knife with a spring - the knife is designed around the automatic mechanism, so it's not like it's robbing you of any control. It also allows for slightly different design choices. Going back to the Protech Godfather, the ONLY way to open it is with the button. There is no thumb stud, there is no flipper, and the blade is entirely contained within the handle in a fashion that even a nail-nick couldn't be feasibly implemented.

Additionally, some people don't like the idea of a spring-loaded knife in their pocket. A manual knife that jostles open in one's pocket might close again without interaction as it rides against the seam of the pocket and gets knocked back into the closed-position detent, but an assisted knife's spring, once the detent is overcome, will continue to apply force to the blade in an opening motion until forcibly closed. I recall seeing a picture of a guy's SOG Trident that, after he had landed from a jump, shot open through the seam of the pocket it was in. I'm not saying it's a common problem or one that is difficult to avoid (he had not nested the knife up against the seam of his back pocket, but, even if he had, the force from the spring could have pushed the knife out to such an angle where it either fell out or fully opened), but it is something that people have noted in the past.

I just don't like AO because it reminds me of cheap and crappy knives. I relish a smooth pivot that glides open to a perfect lockup; a movement born of craftsmanship and precision. Springs are for people like my girlfriend who can't flip open a knife (even with bearings). I can't tell you how many times I've handed a glassy-smooth flipper to my roommate or a co-worker, and stun me with their ability to not make it flip open.

Automatics, again, have the mechanism integral to the design of the knife. Button locks, hidden scale releases, completely concealed blades, and many other features make them seem fundamentally different. I understand the flipper = button notion, but there are certain things that you can't do with a flipper or a thumbstud.

Blades fully contained in the handle:

Blades that shoot closed:

Et cetera. Automatic knives allow for strikingly different design choices and functional differences from manual or AO knives.

 

[DeadOnTarget]

Seems to me is that someone may deassist a knife if that was the ONLY thing keeping it from meeting all their requirements for task at hand. Personally I would simply buy a different knife. There are too knives to need modifying one to your liking IMHO.

I was taught to close knives from a young age with the spine against my leg. Its a safe closing method that is not affected by any resistance. Secondly, in my mind there only two positions knives should be in, open or closed. So the speed at which in gets from one position to the other does not matter so long as safety is not an concern.

With that being said, In recently acquired my first so flipper knife from Kershaw and see it, thus far being perfect for my needs. Opens easy with one hand while keeping my hand away from cutting edge of the blade, closes easily with my method of closing and spring held closed ensure it won't open in the pocket, and lastly besides for meeting my basic needs there is a cool factor that most knife enthusiasts can appericate.

 

[Misanthropia]

Never been a huge fan of assisted knives for the various reasons people have listed here, but the Cold Steel Swift has caught my interest. I don't love back locks because of the bias towards the closed position, especially the Triad lock. The assist in the Swift seems like a nice way to make them open more reliably. It may just be me, but I've had a few scary incidents with my old Recon 1 where my thumb slipped off the thumbstud because of the resistance to opening, and the knife snapped shut. Luckily I never caught myself with it.

Does anyone know how the assist in the Swift works? I wonder if it's a coil spring or torsion bar.

 

[bld522]

I just don't like AO because it reminds me of cheap and crappy knives.

That's what I thought. The real reason some people don't like AO knives is because AO knives have an image problem . . . not because they're inherently inferior or more dangerous to carry than autos. Whether that image problem is warranted or not is arguable. But if there's one thing knives like the Benchmade Torrent and the ZT 0770CF prove, it's that AO knives can be both extremely attractive and very well made. Couple that with the fact that they're legal in many jurisdictions that prohibit autos and they're the ONLY alternative for those who, like myself, want to carry spring-loaded knives without running the risk of a felony conviction.

 

[bdmicarta]

I have several different models of AO- Benchmade Stryker and Benchmade 581. I consider them to be interesting and unique, kind of a novelty. I carry them and use them, and don't want to deassist them, but the assist can be as much of a hassle as it is a unique feature.

Sometimes I am in a group and I don't want a big knife opening with a loud noise. Most of them are liner locks and when I open them slowly they don't lock open as well. And even though I can close them one-handed, it is more difficult and you have to be careful not to slip.

 

[sticktodrum]

I prefer smooth, complete control during the opening travel of my knife. More often than not, I use the knife at somewhere between 58-72% open, and having the control to get there is important. Knives that are merely open/close just feel like flea market junk.

Except for autos.

 

[bld522]

Using a folder somewhere between 58-72% open doesn't sound like something I'd be comfortable doing, but if I were going to do that, it seems to me an AO knife would be able to accommodate it. The springs in my AOs don't open the blades completely like they do in my autos. They only extend the blades about half-way open, or approximately 50%. At that point, the springs complete their travel, release the blades, and inertia opens them up the rest of the way. If you stop the opening action of an AO before the blade extends fully, the range from 50-100% is beyond the point where it's in contact with the spring. So in that range (which encompasses 58-72% of course), my AOs behave exactly the same way my manual openers do.

Stopping the AO's blade from opening fully is also a great way to keep it quiet when you're in a group. All you have to do is block the blade spine with the palm of your free hand after you release it and then finish deploying the blade manually once the spring reaches the end of its travel. You have to use two hands to do that, of course. But opening your AO knife that way shouldn't be an issue if stealthy deployment is your primary concern.

Having to overcome resistance when closing an AO's blade is annoying. But it's no more annoying than closing the blades on my side-opening autos. The only difference between them is that the resistance begins the moment I start to close my autos and at about the half-way point (i.e., the point where the blade re-engages the spring and starts compressing it) when I close my AOs.

Again, I suspect the bum rap AO knives get around here is largely due to a prevailing but not completely justified sentiment against them. I can understand why people think junk AO knives are junk. They're junk by definition. But well-made AO knives are well-made by definition, too. And it seems to me our community should embrace well-made AOs for what they are . . . legal autos. Whether we do that or not, however, doesn't really matter. The great unwashed masses of knife buyers already have.