Why did you choose an ESEE?

bghorn said:
I got an ESEE (6) because I needed a medium sized knife and all the hyped up internet reviews. It's an OK knife with decent fit and finish. I'd say overpriced for what you get. Sheath needed insert made of clam shell plastic packaging. Without it would rattle like crazy. Sheath molded plastic is also too soft. Belt clip sucks.

Blade on the cutting edge side is way too thick for knife to be a good slicer. On the other hand, knife is too small for tasks beyond cutting. It also came with dull edge.
Edge retention is not good at ESEE recommended 20 degrees per side.

Knife is advertised as 3/16 thick, but only tang and ricasso are that thick, blade is thinner, about 0.165" or so. I don't think it needs finger choil at this blade length. Some like it though.
Handle is good. Micarta scales do absorb lots of bodily fluids and dirt though and after some usage it will feel tacky. It cleans easily though.
Coating looks like freshly paved asphalt, but is easily removed. Steel under the coating looks like it already has some sort of patina.

It comes with good warranty, but if knife is as good as some say, you won't need it.
It would be a solid product at about $80-90 price range.

It's an OK knife but definitely over-hyped.
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ESEE's are so much better than Beckers in every way. Better heat treat(my opinion), better sheath(fact), better handles(fact). All that for not much more money. So which one is overpriced?
 
Because they are produced and owned by stand up guys(Jeff, Mike, Shon), have great warranty, are North America made, and just make nice knives with a great heat treat and reputation. I don't regret my decision at all. In fact I ordered another Esee(Izula 2)shortly after receiving the 4. Keep up the good work guys.
 
craytab said:
That would be your opinion of Esee, not the opinion of Esee owners. And for all your big long posts filled with lots of info and big words I figured you would understand the physics behind why throwing a knife can be so devastating to said knife.
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Oh I do understand the physics, which is why I know their position is silly. Geometry, strength and toughness, and application of force. In order to break one of these knives, you need an inclusion either present in the steel from manufacturing or created via fracture and then propagate that fracture through sufficient application of force. At this geometry and these materials, that application of force is significant if a flaw isn't already present. Batonning is far more stressful on the knife, hammering it into steel and concrete more so. Throwing? What do you think is so stressful about throwing? Just what level of forces do you think you are generating? I'd love to see a break-down of your calculations because every attempt I've made has resulted in the same conclusion - it's a non-issue... unless there's a flaw in the material. That's happened to Becker and Ethan has been very up-front about it, stating that he wishes he could guarantee every blade to be free from such defects that result in broken blades, but the price-increase would not be worth it to consumers, and the percentage of blades that fail is so low. Are Beckers fragile? I don't think so, but maybe 1 in 10,000 breaks? The other 9999 are sound.


It is not my opinion that ESEE knives are fragile, it is literally the opinion espoused by the owners, read: http://eseeknives.com/warranty.htm

They are hardened to a higher Rockwell than throwing knives and will most likely break if thrown...
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Their opinion is that every time a knife that is 3/16" or thicker at the spine and 0.030" at the edge and hardened as high as 55Rc is thrown, it "will most likely break". Every time it doesn't break, well that's a fluke, it'll break the next time! No? Well, it's coming, just you wait and see! 100X and nothing, not even a flake off the edge on a bad ricochet? Well it's coming, and you're an idiot and don't buy our knives! :confused: OK.

Further:

Note: We do not warranty our 440C Stainless Steel knives from abuse. It should be noted that 440C is not as flexible as our carbon steels. Any excessive flexing will cause the knife to break.
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ESEE knives are relatively soft (55-56Rc) spring steel. INFI, SR101, CPM-3V, 420HC are all hardened to >58Rc and at such thick geometries as these knives come in, none suffer ill affects from throwing that I've ever seen, further Rowen's 1095 seems to be just fine as well... yet the statement of the owners (quoted above) declaring their knives (and ALL knives not softer than theirs) to be fragile.

They go on to denigrate 440C steel and won't warranty knives made from it. Y'all realize that "excessive flexing" will cause ANY knife to break, right? That's usually what breaks knives - somebody gets part of the blade or edge stuck in something and it flexes until exceeding the UTS, that's how fractures propagate. What does Ray Ennis say about using 440C HT'd to 58Rc in Entrek knives?: http://ennis-entrekusa.com/About Entrek USA.htm

If this Entrek USA knife fails for any reason it will be repaired or replaced at the option of Entrek USA at no cost to the original owner.
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I'm not down on Rowen's manufacturing, I think they're plenty tough, and I love those Junglas-throwing vids :thumbup: (most of which had comments disabled due to flaming by ESEE fanboys). I just don't get why the ESEE-owners - per their official warranty declarations and statements they've made on forums - are so concerned about the fragility of the knives. Like Cobalt said, if there was really a problem with the steel, we'd know by now, right? If it turns out that 1 in 10000 ESEE knives contain a flaw in the steel that results in a broken knife when it is thrown, does that make the other 9999 fragile? Does that make EVERY knife made by EVERY manufacturer fragile? To assert such is irrational, that's all.
 
chiral.grolim said:
It is not my opinion that ESEE knives are fragile, it is literally the opinion espoused by the owners, read: http://eseeknives.com/warranty.htm
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Actually, it "literally" isn't. They explain how their knives differ from throwing knives, and state their view of people throwing their knives (which aren't designed to be thrown).


P.S. I see Cray beat me to it.

In any case, I fail to see how it should be a slam on ESEE that they've asked folks not to throw their knives. It's not what they were designed for, pretty simple. It's an entirely arbitrary criticism. It's like me saying that I don't like that ESEEs aren't designed to chop cinder blocks in half. ESEE makes great knives, and frankly, I've never seen much criticism of them at all from owners. So, what's going on here?
 
Quiet said:
Actually, it "literally" isn't. They explain how their knives differ from throwing knives, and state their view of people throwing their knives (which aren't designed to be thrown).

P.S. I see Cray beat me to it.

In any case, I fail to see how it should be a slam on ESEE that they've asked folks not to throw their knives. It's not what they were designed for, pretty simple. It's an entirely arbitrary criticism. It's like me saying that I don't like that ESEEs aren't designed to chop cinder blocks in half. ESEE makes great knives, and frankly, I've never seen much criticism of them at all from owners. So, what's going on here?
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Y'all reading a different text? The words declare that knives hardened above 55Rc will "most likely break if thrown". That is a statement of fragility. Their reasoning is categorical, not specific to their own knives. And their opinion is of people throwing ANY knife not specifically designed for such, not just theirs. Their explanation is lacking in reasoning and support, but they follow it up with insults. Why? The reason it's a valid criticism is the oft repeated claim of how solid their warranty is. Well, they'll replace your knife but they'll blame you for it breaking under conditions that shouldn't result in a failure in the first place...? Ditch the insulting language and unsupported nonsense about the fragility of the tools, and I'll :thumbup: Heck, just limit the reasoning to their own knives rather than leaving it categorical.
 
Quick question. Why does everyone keep saying great heat treat? It's 1095 at 57 HRC. That's mediocre. It's nowhere near hard and borderline soft for heavy use. I have a hand made (not by me) 1095 with a differential heat treat that is 59HRC at the edge. I've watched it flex through logs when splitting them and come out as straight as they went in with no edge damage and still very sharp. Now that's a great heat treat.

To all the fans, that have been through this conversation before. This is the time you sit there and ponder how more than one person here says the same thing. It's like cockroaches, for every one you see there is 100 more you don't, so there is a whole lot of people who think their verbiage is a bit odd considering they will warranty for any reason. Their warranty page should not be several paragraphs long. It should just read, if it breaks for any reason send it to us for a new one. No need to tell us what other knives will do or tell you you're an idiot if one breaks while you use it.

Not knocking the actual product itself, I'm positive it's as good as any 1095 blade at 57 HRC. If you want to pay extra for the plastic sheath and name, go for it. Should be fine, even if someone were to use it.
 
Boris74 said:
Quick question. Why does everyone keep saying great heat treat? It's 1095 at 57 HRC. That's mediocre. It's nowhere near hard and borderline soft for heavy use. I have a hand made (not by me) 1095 with a differential heat treat that is 59HRC at the edge. I've watched it flex through logs when splitting them and come out as straight as they went in with no edge damage and still very sharp. Now that's a great heat treat.

To all the fans, that have been through this conversation before. This is the time you sit there and ponder how more than one person here says the same thing. It's like cockroaches, for every one you see there is 100 more you don't, so there is a whole lot of people who think their verbiage is a bit odd considering they will warranty for any reason. Their warranty page should not be several paragraphs long. It should just read, if it breaks for any reason send it to us for a new one. No need to tell us what other knives will do or tell you you're an idiot if one breaks while you use it.

Not knocking the actual product itself, I'm positive it's as good as any 1095 blade at 57 HRC. If you want to pay extra for the plastic sheath and name, go for it. Should be fine, even if someone were to use it.
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The same steel is not created equal. Your schrade 1095 is not equal to a 1095 HT'd by newt livesay. Plain fact of life. Just because 5 companies use the same steel, doesn't mean that the steel will perform exactly the same. The HT process consistency and shortcuts or not make the difference.

Yes, I can bet that the ESEE will be better finished and HT'd than your Schrade. Fact of life.
 
Cobalt said:
The same steel is not created equal. Your schrade 1095 is not equal to a 1095 HT'd by newt livesay. Plain fact of life. Just because 5 companies use the same steel, doesn't mean that the steel will perform exactly the same. The HT process consistency and shortcuts or not make the difference.

Yes, I can bet that the ESEE will be better finished and HT'd than your Schrade. Fact of life.
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You keep saying this, but there's never anything offered to back it up. Your claims are just empty calories. You are going to have to offer up something with substance. You may bedazzle a noob or novice repeating an advertisement, but what you just posted, it hasn't worked out that way for me in the real world.

Do you have anything more substantial to offer?
 
Boris74 said:
You keep saying this, but there's never anything offered to back it up. Your claims are just empty calories. You are going to have to offer up something with substance. You may bedazzle a noob or novice repeating an advertisement, but what you just posted, it hasn't worked out that way for me in the real world.

Do you have anything more substantial to offer?
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Actually there is plenty of proof on youtube of ESEE doing 10 times more than your schrade. The only proof schrade has is words from you which, frankly is no different than the empty calories you continually accuse everyone else on this forum of giving. Your calories are no different. Do you have anything substantial to offer except the hot air you continue to espouse? I can drop 5 video tests of ESEE here no problem, what can you do? Put up one picture of a knife that looks to have been mildly used?
 
Cobalt said:
ESEE's are so much better than Beckers in every way. Better heat treat(my opinion), better sheath(fact), better handles(fact). All that for not much more money. So which one is overpriced?
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I have to disagree on better handles, particularly with it being a fact. ESEE makes very nice knives, but I find their handles profoundly uncomfortable. I'll give you better stock handle materials, but I think Becker has a more than significant edge in terms of handle design.
 
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Cobalt said:
Actually there is plenty of proof on youtube of ESEE doing 10 times more than your schrade. The only proof schrade has is words from you which, frankly is no different than the empty calories you continually accuse everyone else on this forum of giving. Your calories are no different. Do you have anything substantial to offer except the hot air you continue to espouse? I can drop 5 video tests of ESEE here no problem, what can you do? Put up one picture of a knife that looks to have been mildly used?
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I'm not the one saying one is better than the other. You are. I don't care what's on YouTube, I want to hear from you what you've done with both yourself to draw such a conclusion. dont just repeat what you've read or what you've watched, on YouTube lmao, seriously? YouTube, ok.

You need way more than that to be able to make a claim that 1095 at 57 HRC is a superior heat treat to everything else made ever in that steel.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
ESEE has some of the most torturous handles it has ever been my misfortune to hold. I realize ergos are fairly personal, but claiming for a fact that they have better handles is laughable. Better stock handle material? Yes. But a far cry from better handles.
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They are certainly better in feeling and in material, but you are right, that is a personal thing as far as feel. But Beckers have some of the worst handles I have ever held in my hand and I have had 4 beckers, Brute, Campanion, BK9 and 7. All of them were the same and were way to smooth to ever even consider doing a hard stab with unless you want to slice your hand open as it slips off the handle and on to the blade.
 
Cobalt said:
They are certainly better in feeling and in material, but you are right, that is a personal thing as far as feel. But Beckers have some of the worst handles I have ever held in my hand and I have had 4 beckers, Brute, Campanion, BK9 and 7. All of them were the same and were way to smooth to ever even consider doing a hard stab with unless you want to slice your hand open as it slips off the handle and on to the blade.
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I agree with the way too smooth, but I've never actually had any retention issues in use. I do MUCH prefer the aftermarket micarta scales that are available for the Beckers, though.

Note: I also edited the post you quoted because I felt like I was being a jerk. Sorry about that, sometimes I type before I think.
 
Boris74 said:
I'm not the one saying one is better than the other. You are. I don't care what's on YouTube, I want to hear from you what you've done with both yourself to draw such a conclusion. dont just repeat what you've read or what you've watched, on YouTube lmao, seriously? YouTube, ok.

You need way more than that to be able to make a claim that 1095 at 57 HRC is a superior heat treat to everything else made ever in that steel.
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Putting words in peoples mouths? I never stated that 1095 is the best, not by a long shot. 3V, S7, 52100 are all better steels, properly heat treated. But I would trust a 1095 steel with a proper heat treat over a blade from China with unknown HT. As for youtube, yup, those videos that you don't care much about show so much more than your empty calories.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I agree with the way too smooth, but I've never actually had any retention issues in use. I do MUCH prefer the aftermarket micarta scales that are available for the Beckers, though.

Note: I also edited the post you quoted because I felt like I was being a jerk. Sorry about that, sometimes I type before I think.
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No problem, we all get that way me included.
Look, I like Beckers, my only complaint has always been the handles. I honestly wish I had kept them when the aftermarket handles were being made for them. The designs are awesome and I especially loved my brute. But at the time there was no micarta aftermarket stuff and I was to lazy to make my own. Other than the handles, I do like the Beckers. I still that ESEE goes a step further at least in the Junglas with the sheath.
 
Cobalt said:
No problem, we all get that way me included.
Look, I like Beckers, my only complaint has always been the handles. I honestly wish I had kept them when the aftermarket handles were being made for them. The designs are awesome and I especially loved my brute. But at the time there was no micarta aftermarket stuff and I was to lazy to make my own. Other than the handles, I do like the Beckers. I still that ESEE goes a step further at least in the Junglas with the sheath.
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Oh, no question that ESEE has better sheaths! I'm right there with you on that being a fact. Honestly, I'd like to see more collaboration between the two companies as I respect both. I just prefer Becker because almost all the ESEE handles give me wicked hot spots. I'd love to see an ESEE 4 with a Becker handle but in micarta.
 
Cobalt said:
Putting words in peoples mouths? I never stated that 1095 is the best, not by a long shot. 3V, S7, 52100 are all better steels, properly heat treated. But I would trust a 1095 steel with a proper heat treat over a blade from China with unknown HT. As for youtube, yup, those videos that you don't care much about show so much more than your empty calories.
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You said Esee heat treat for their 1095 at 57 HRC is better than other brands at the same HRC in 1095. Do you understand 1095 is 1095 and 57 HRC is 57 HRC, but not Esee, their 1095'is superior and their 57 HRC is superior. You say that, not me.

I know you pay attention, but for some reason you have an agenda to smear for some reason, brands you don't like based on emotion. I've already shown you the Schrade 1095 has a heat treat of 57-59 HRC. That's not unknown. I can even verify the information I provide with the information sent to me by them.



So what's so unknown about that? 1095 is 1095 and it looks like your unknown heat treat claim just went up in smoke. How do I know their 1095 at 57-59 HRC because my knife didn't come out of the box looking like this.



notice a difference between your posts and mine? That unknown (to you because of a lack of research on your part) heat treat is now known, just like the last time I showed you to the masses.

your next post will need to concentrate on something else now. Forget your debunked heat treat claims. Maybe go after fit and finish like the scales don't match up perfectly and my SCHF37 had a bit of a uneven grind for 1/16" right at the tip that I easily fixed and the powder coat is the worst powder coat I've seen on any blade. While evenly applied the powder is junk. The steel though, it's real 1095 at 57-59 HRC and it performs like any other knife in 1095 at 57-59 HRC. The SCHF26 had a perfect grind out of the box but the scales fit is a tad less aligned than the F37 the coating on the F26 is so much better though and they are ditching the powder coat on their next new designs.

Anything else you'd like to add based on using one?

Keep things on track too. If you want to "school" me on what you don't know about Schrade brand blades start a new thread. We are talking about Esee here, not what I use.
 
So posting an Hrc number for a steel shows the proper heat treat was done.....

551383205_dr_evil_right_thumb_xlarge.jpeg


You know, the part of the Rockwell C hardness that involves little things like normalizing, annealing, hardening and tempering etc. :foot:
 
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