Why did you do me like that Colonial?

[Buddiiee]

Gotta say something here. I got a few of the replacement MC-1s from Colonial, under the part number M742 issued to me on my last deployment, and all I gotta say is WOW. The quality on these knives SUCKS! Got a box in from supply, and opened them up to my guys, and they all sniffed around and said "Dang, these knives suck." and thew them back in the box. Are you kidding me??? SOLDIERS, turning down FREE SWITCHBLADES???? Joes LOVE switchblades. And for them to not even want free ones, is a true testament to how bad they suck. I've never seen a joe turn down new shiny kit before in my entire career. After a few of my guys that actually took one carried them for a few days, they didn't want them anymore so one of them gave me theirs. Now I have two.
Every now and then I try to put one back into pocket rotation, and every single time I wonder why I did it. The absolute worst craftsmanship of ANY of my knives. The knive's point is WAYYYYY too long and pointy, so I have to grind it down a bit and reshape it so that it doesn't break unexpectedly in the field. The grinding, or lack thereof on the riser cutter is just horrible, with all sorts of uneven surfaces and nicks and gouges in it. It's not even sharp. And the switch blade doesn't even work. It gets hung up every single time. Even after loosening and oiling the pivot screws. These are 1st generation knives. They sent me a 2nd gen knife and while the handle is a TOUCH better in fit and finish, the blade has definitely improved. And it's more of a clip point now rather than the old Barlow style blades. Much better finish, and a little sharper, but still a total pos.

Here's my major gripe though. This isn't just any ordinary knife. It's a rescue style knife. It's made to be used by paratroopers and pilots when the chips are down. Sometimes, when your arm is broken. And now the spring action blade doesn't spring out? Colonial passed a knife thru QC to be used by our troops in the worst possible scenarios that doesn't even work??? What if THEY WERE the troops that had to use that knife?? Utter malarkey in my opinion. Wrong on soo many levels.

And that's not it. So then I see they're starting to offer pocket clips for their knives. GREAT!! I love pocketclips! I send them my old version to get a pocketclip put on, with EXPLICIT instructions, and they loused it up anyhow. They put the clip on the wrong end, even with explicit instructions. So then I send them back the knife, and what comes back? Some other 742, but not MINE. I said what the heck are you doing?? Send me MY KNIFE back, not some other replacement. I carried that thing on deployment. I want MY ORIGINAL BACK. So I called and the guy tried to bull**** me saying I did send you your knife. I told him no, you didn't. I know what MY knife looks like. It's the CARBON (I hate stainless) steel blade, that has the point reground. He tries to tell me they're all the same. FIRST off, they're all NOT THE SAME. I don't care if they are all the same. I want MY knife back. Did I tell you to send me a replacement? So then he says he has to go look for it. A few minutes later he comes back with "Oh, here it it. Got it." How do you just "got it"? I thought you said they're all the same? Well then turbo, if they're all the same, how did you find MINE?? Oh... that's right; it's because they're all NOT THE SAME. And why did you try to tell me that you DID send me back my knife when you obviously didn't? You trying to lie to me, thinking I'm some sort of fool?

So I get my knife back retrofitted with a clip on the knife (on the right side this time) and I notice, that the idiots clipped the little post that extends off of the clip that holds it straight, with a pair of wire cutters, and just screwed it right on. Sharp as heck. Didn't even take 1 minute to run it across a grinding wheel to smooth it out a bit. And why did you cut the little retaining clip? It was there, along with the hole it goes in when you installed in on the wrong side. So why do I get screwed out of this feature after you unscrewed your original mistake? God darn did pride, integrity and craftsmanship go in the crapper in today's world. I would NEVER send a knife out looking like that. No way. My last name is attached to every piece I touch, and I will do it right every single time no matter what. I can't say the same for the guys at Colonial.

This is NOT the same Colonial it was 30 years ago. This Colonial is something different. Nothing but pain & heartache from them. I think they need to tighten up their new employee interviews a little bit. Prior service guys, can you imagine a box full of new switchblades, that WEREN'T on the books, sitting around in the supply room, with no takers? I don't know about you, but I'm retired Army, and MC-1's NEVER lasted in my Army. They were pilfered beyond belief. When they were issued, you never seen 'em again. Ever. These on the other hand? Are who knows where now... Unbelievable...

 

[leghog]

The MC-1 was meant to be cheap, disposable, emergency use knife not a long lasting survival knife. Even my old Camillus fits that description. I haven't used it because it simply won't last.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Got any pics? I've never heard of the thing.

Thanks for your service btw.

 

[Buddiiee]

The MC-1 was meant to be cheap, disposable, emergency use knife not a long lasting survival knife. Even my old Camillus fits that description. I haven't used it because it simply won't last.

Totally. But if this is a piece of unit equipment, that's meant to be signed out and carried in a flight suit or on your LCE during jumps, over and over again, then turned back in when you pcs/ets, and then re-issued again, I hope it would be at least somewhat serviceable during its lifecycle. I know they don't get used very often, and usually spend their lives in the flight suit doing nothing, but they have to be SOMEwhat reliable, because if after 5 years of issue, if it doesn't work for the soldier/pilot, it's worthless, and the people that bought them (you, the taxpayer) just spent millions on a piece of equipment that was meant to save our lives, but wasn't capable. Double whammy. Lose/lose. My initial point still remains-on a tight budget, the three original vendors for our knives (schrade, camillus & logan/smyth) varied widely in quality. How did one vendor manage to make the same piece with a completely different mindset than the others? That's not a money issue, it's a personal pride issue. I wouldn't hesitate one BIT to carry my Camillus in my LCE for emergency purposes in the field. Ever. I know it's not a field knife; that's what my KaBar or Glock field knife is for. I wouldn't use my KaBar to cut a seat belt in an upsidedown HMMWV either. Too pointy. I'd use my MC-1. My Colonial however? HELL no. Listen, besides emergency egress purposes, I wouldn't even carry my Colonial on off duty pocket use either. It fails in THAT niche too! Trust me, I'm not bitching just to bitch. I'm not loyal to ANYone here. Not biased in the least. I carry/buy what works. THEN I become loyal afterwards. The minute that trusty piece lets me down, I'd ditch it like a 2 cent hooker and start my personal trials all over again, to find a suitable replacement. I've tried my Camillus just as I tried my Colonial, my Enduras, my Blur, my Case Trapper, Leek, various Victorinoxes, & my HK14700. And if any of those tried and true daily rotators fail, they go directly into file 13 and I never look back. But I'm fair. If I was hard on them and they couldn't keep up, then I say hey, they tried, they did a good job, but they couldn't handle the abuse. If they failed miserably the first or second time out, then I say they sucked butt. Plain and simple.

 

[Thomas Linton]

So does anyone know which company actually manufactures these knives?

Colonial's site lists Suite A, 61 Dewey Avenue, Warwick, RI, as the company's address. That site, with its seven employees is surely not a factory.

Another address pops up in some listings: 287 Oak Street in the depressed Olneyville neighborhood of Providence. That address is listed for a portion of a multi-tenant two story brick building, and is the same address as listed on line for Appalachian Company, a furniture retailer, Regal Reality, and Nn1u Radio Club, No signage identiifies it as a Colonial Knife site. Mars Plastic and a company called Clear Choice are in the same building at other Oak Street addresses.

The old Colonial factory, that closed in 1999, is apparently also in Olneyvills. The property is for sale The building is an abandoned wreck.

I can find no more information on Colonial.

 

[leghog]

Totally. But if this is a piece of unit equipment, that's meant to be signed out and carried in a flight suit or on your LCE during jumps, over and over again, then turned back in when you pcs/ets, and then re-issued again, I hope it would be at least somewhat serviceable during its lifecycle.

Even my Camillus is cheap knife exuding its cheapness. Back when issued, if an MC-1 was actually used it was likely not to be reissued. Wasn't meant to be. If it is unserviceable after five years of issue and no use, trash it and get another. Back when these were truly issue items they were ALSE items dirt cheap to the government as they were meant to be. They weren't standard issue for everyday use. They were not unlike strobe batteries that were issued but never used ---- comes a point in time when you toss them and replace. I'd not necessarily blame a company for "remaking" a cheap knife that was originally designed to be cheap and sold cheaply but in volume.

 

[leghog]

Deleted --- doesn't belong here

 

[Buddiiee]

Even my Camillus is cheap knife exuding its cheapness. Back when issued, if an MC-1 was actually used it was likely not to be reissued. Wasn't meant to be. If it is unserviceable after five years of issue and no use, trash it and get another. Back when these were truly issue items they were ALSE items dirt cheap to the government as they were meant to be. They weren't standard issue for everyday use. They were not unlike strobe batteries that were issued but never used ---- comes a point in time when you toss them and replace. I'd not necessarily blame a company for "remaking" a cheap knife that was originally designed to be cheap and sold cheaply but in volume.

True, but it still has to at least have a certain service life no matter how short it is, and it has to at least perform within that service life, right? These Colonials don't even work on day ONE though. No matter HOW you slice it, that's inexcusable. There's no excuse.

 

[leghog]

True, but it still has to at least have a certain service life no matter how short it is, and it has to at least perform within that service life, right? These Colonials don't even work on day ONE though. No matter HOW you slice it, that's inexcusable. There's no excuse.

True, but why would any unit provide these to soldiers EXCEPTING for one time emergency use which itself is unlikely? Even, then there are valid reasons the MC-1 is no longer an issue item.

 

[Buddiiee]

True, but why would any unit provide these to soldiers EXCEPTING for one time emergency use which itself is unlikely? Even, then there are valid reasons the MC-1 is no longer an issue item.

I'm not getting what you're saying. Are you saying it's perfectly ok to not only accept the stuff that comes in on contract without QC'ing to ensure it's up to contract specs in form,fit & function, but to then issue it out to someone that may need it, only HOPING it'll work, even it's it's just ONE, SINGLE, TIME?? I'm not sure which mos you held when you were in, but in the Infantry, we depend on ALL of our equipment, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the time. EVERY time. If it didn't work, we dx'ed it until we found one that worked, or we bought our own. Maybe you don't need your equipment to actually work, but we do... I mean, WTF kind of excuse is that? Just saying that "It's ok, it was never meant to really work anyways. So you don't really have a valid reason to complain." is enough to just excuse the entire contact because it was a goat screw from the get go? No. Just saying that doesn't excuse ANYone. Not the contract officer that wrote the contract, not the equipment specialist that performed the validation/verification, and not the program manager that signed off on the whole deal.

This entire project was a no-go right outta the gate. But that's not my gripe. We've screwed up a lot of programs in the Army lol. The problem I have is that the contractor making these things should have QC'ed these before they even got boxed up & shipped out. Them not doing that tells me that the workers on the assembly line there have ZERO integrity. Had that been me on that line, and I seen that these things were malfunctioning, I would have not let it go. I would have brought it up the shift leader, and said "Hey, these knives are assed up. What gives." If there were no changes made, and these were going to DLA or wherever to get possibly issued to soldiers, I'd walk out. I would never be part of an operation like that. I don't roll like that. I'm either doing it 100% right, or not at all. It's just a shame that the way I do things is this rare in this country. It didn't used to be...

 

[leghog]

I'm saying the MC-1 is now non-standard, and that the unit had to order them as COTS items (they weren't contract spec'd). I'm questioning why they'd order the POS in the first place. There are valid reasons the MC-1 left service ages ago.

What was a no-go from the get-go was a unit ordering/micro-contracting a POS COTS, likely via GPC, from a commercial vendor and expecting something else. THEY WERE NOT CONTRACT SPEC'D. That old contract is history from long ago, and Colonial had nothing to do with it. Regarding the MC-1, Colonial only makes current POS copies of a once standard item that wasn't very good to begin with. Your MC-1s were bought commercially and likely on a government credit card at the unit level. Since the MC-1 hasn't been a standard item in the system for a long time, they are neither DLA nor AMC managed. They are commercial items a unit chose to purchase from a commercial source. Blame the one(s) who ordered the POS not knowing what they'd get.

As to your assertion, I became an infantryman 29 years ago and first served in 2/327th (101st ABN (AASLT), but that has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation and lends neither of us any credibility in this discussion.

 

[leghog]

Here's my Camillus MC-1 that WAS a standard issue item. It too was/is a POS but served well enough for its INTENDED purpose, I suppose. I'd rather have a Benchmade Safety Hook which is what we bought in one of my assignments --- cheaper and much better than Colonials copy of the MC-1.

 

[Buddiiee]

Here's my Camillus MC-1 that WAS a standard issue item. It too was/is a POS but served well enough for its INTENDED purpose, I suppose. I'd rather have a Benchmade Safety Hook which is what we bought in one of my assignments --- cheaper and much better than Colonials copy of the MC-1.


VERY happy to see someone here knows what they're talking about. Thank you. So this was cots stuff eh? Well that sucks. When I put the order it, I knew nothing. I was under the assumption that they were still contracted. All I know is that my Camillus MC-1 was EONS better than this. I still have mine, and it works perfectly. Though, these Colonials were nsn'ed. So we're not contracted with them? And you were 3-2-heaven? Sweet. Glad to see another Infantryman.
But, we were deployed when I put this order in. And my order wasn't even specific. I told the supply guy to order knives. Pocket knives. Whatever you can get. I put in for benchmade AFOs and something else. What came in was a box of these, and genuine Swiss issue pocket knves-the little standard ones with the aluminum stocks. Everyone loved those. Still have that one as well. How did he get these Colonials?

 

[Karda]

VERY happy to see someone here knows what they're talking about. Thank you. So this was cots stuff eh? Well that sucks. When I put the order it, I knew nothing. I was under the assumption that they were still contracted. All I know is that my Camillus MC-1 was EONS better than this. I still have mine, and it works perfectly. Though, these Colonials were nsn'ed. So we're not contracted with them? And you were 3-2-heaven? Sweet. Glad to see another Infantryman.
But, we were deployed when I put this order in. And my order wasn't even specific. I told the supply guy to order knives. Pocket knives. Whatever you can get. I put in for benchmade AFOs and something else. What came in was a box of these, and genuine Swiss issue pocket knves-the little standard ones with the aluminum stocks. Everyone loved those. Still have that one as well. How did he get these Colonials?

So I all actuality, it wasn't Colonial that "Did you like that" it was yourself and your supply officer whom "did" yourselves "like that"..... whom never took the time to look into, research or even try a sample of the knives you ordered. Colonial only sold you what you requested to purchase. You chose instead to "assume" they were contracted with the military and "assume" that they were good knives. You asked for "whatever the supply officer could get" and blame Colonial for supplying you with exactly what you ordered?

 

[Thomas Linton]

So . . . [in] all actuality, it wasn't Colonial that "Did you like that" it was yourself and your supply officer . . . [who] "did" . . . [you] "like that"..... [who] never took the time to look into, research or even try a sample of the knives you ordered. Colonial only sold you what you requested to purchase. You chose instead to "assume" they were contracted with the military and "assume" that they were good knives. You asked for "whatever the supply officer could get" and blame Colonial for supplying you with exactly what you ordered?

You point is well-taken. Buying cheap is a classic path to poor results. No one should take better care of you than you.

But did they really ask for non-functioning goods? Like: "We want to order switch-blades that don't work." ????

Any product sold is implicitly warranted by the seller in all fifty states, among other things:

> to pass without objection in the trade under the contract description; and

> in the case of fungible goods, to be of fair average quality within the description; and

> to be fit for the ordinary purposes for which such goods are used; and

> to run, within the variations permitted by the agreement, of an even kind, quality within each unit and among all units involved [i.e., not OK that 90% work and 10% don't]; and

> to conform to the promise or affirmations of fact made on the container or label if any [If it's labeled "switch-blade," it's gotta' pop open and lock open when you pushha' da' button.]

UNLESS such warranties are expressly disclaimed prior to sale, including use of the word "merchantability."

(Disclaimers not disclosed prior to sale, such as those routinely found inside the package, are of no legal effect, and it's been that way for nearly forty years. So why the disclaimers inside the package or on the website? The companies count on consumer ignorance. It's part of their business plan.)

So the law tries to protect the sucker who does not understand the lesson you are trying to teach the OP. The theory is that the unscrupulous should bear more of the burden than the merely clueless. That theory flies in the face of Natural Selection, but there it is.

 

[leghog]

Here's my Camillus MC-1 that WAS a standard issue item. It too was/is a POS but served well enough for its INTENDED purpose, I suppose. I'd rather have a Benchmade Safety Hook which is what we bought in one of my assignments --- cheaper and much better than Colonials copy of the MC-1.

VERY happy to see someone here knows what they're talking about. Thank you. So this was cots stuff eh? Well that sucks. When I put the order it, I knew nothing. I was under the assumption that they were still contracted. All I know is that my Camillus MC-1 was EONS better than this. I still have mine, and it works perfectly. Though, these Colonials were nsn'ed. So we're not contracted with them? And you were 3-2-heaven? Sweet. Glad to see another Infantryman.
But, we were deployed when I put this order in. And my order wasn't even specific. I told the supply guy to order knives. Pocket knives. Whatever you can get. I put in for benchmade AFOs and something else. What came in was a box of these, and genuine Swiss issue pocket knves-the little standard ones with the aluminum stocks. Everyone loved those. Still have that one as well. How did he get these Colonials?

Next time be specific or don't complain when you get what you ask for, namely "whatever you can get". With a request like that you were lucky to get the SAKs you were happy with, but luck and hope are never a good COAs.

COTS: Commercial-off-the-shelf. They were likely ordered and paid for via the unit's GPC directly from a retailer off the net or via the unit's USE DoDAAC from GSA Advantage (tons of COTS BPA items) off the net either directly or through the SSA. Next time do some research so you do know what you are ordering, especially if buying COTS. A google search would have shown the knife would not meet your needs. In the history of the MC-1, it would not have meet your needs. That's why they were never issued to infantrymen. b Never standard issue to paratroops. They were ALSE and never intended as a general purpose issue knife. Alternatively, next time you are ordering a COTS item you know nothing about, order just one and see what it really is. If you wanted something that was once standard issue, you'd have been better served ordering the current copies of the old U.S. Military Knife (most often inappropriately called the demo knife). The OLD spec was MIL-K-818* with NSN 5110-00-162-2205. It's a scout pattern folder and can be had for less than MC-1 copies. Just remember they too are copies of OLD spec/standard issue too and also no longer made by companies fulfilling the old contracts. But for about the same $$$ or less, I'd have ordered Victorinox Pioneers.

 

[leghog]

Oh, and as an aside, remember those knives belong to us, the US taxpayers, via the U.S. Army. Not you. They are not retain items. They are not yours. If you want personal ones, buy them in the secondary market.

 

[Buddiiee]

So what you guys are saying is, is that "We should have known"? that what. That they were SHIT right out of the box, and that we should have had to freakin order just one for a trial, and HOPE it was ok to buy more??? So what you're saying is, is that I should have just magically assumed Colonials MC-1 was garbage? So what you're telling me is, is that I can't just see a product deemed squared away by the manufacturer, deemed fit for military use, and order it, and assume it's going to work? I can't do that?
I get a whole box of "emergency egress knives" ordered by the government for soldiers that may need these in serious situations, that don't work, but I don't have a leg to stand on as far as a complaint?
No. You're all wrong. I DO have a valid complaint. This company was touting that these knives are for military personnel, and for military service, and not a one of them worked, but it's my fault? I'm surrounded by idiots. 24/7. Every single day I run into idiots. Good job on the QA/QC colonial! Way to ensure your knives actually WORK before they leave the door. Love it....

 

[Buddiiee]

One more thing-they were standard issue to paratroopers. Not only did we have them in our supply room, but my buddies from the 82nd and group both had them issued as well.

 

[jbmonkey]

Im confused. The m724 or mc-1 has a nsn number right? Which means it should work for what it was designed for, right?

I dont know squat about military ordering.....so bear with my low level questions.......but doesnt that nsn number mean it was approved by some testing and/or oversight division in the military somewhere at sometime?

Where im going with this is most folks think...military approved = good stuff. Is that rarely true....or is there politics galore in how stuff gets approved....so its massively complicated and I should be happy not knowing? Appreciate the feedback. Thank you in advance.