Why didn't you save the school children

Dan Gray

Dan Gray

Joined
Jun 25, 2001
Messages
8,474
Dear God:

Why didn't you save the school children at ?. .

Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah, Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamps, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98

Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99
Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99
Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99
Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee, California 3/5/01 and
El Cajon, California 3/22/01?

Sincerely,

Concerned Student

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Reply:
Dear Concerned Student:
I am not allowed in schools.
Sincerely,

God

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How did this get started?...

-----------------

Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
she
didn't want any prayer in our schools.
And we said, OK...

------------------

Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school, the Bible
that says "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your
neighbors as yourself,"
And we said, OK...

-----------------

Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they
misbehaved because their little personalities would be warped and
we might damage their self-esteem.
And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't
spank them anymore..

------------------

Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our
children when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no
faculty
member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave
because we
don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued.
And we accepted their reasoning...

------------------

Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
and they won't even have to tell their parents.
And we said, that's a grand idea...

------------------

Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and
they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they
want, so
they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their
parents they got them at school.
And we said, that's another great idea...

------------------

Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we
do
in private as long as we do our jobs.
And we said, it doesn't matter what anybody, including the President,
does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....

------------------

And someone else took that appreciation a step further and published
pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them
available on the Internet.
And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....

------------------

And the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies
that
promote profanity, violence and illicit sex... And let's record music
that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...
And we said, it's just entertainment and it has no adverse effect an d
nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead...

------------------

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why
they
don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill
strangers, classmates or even themselves.

------------------

Undoubtedly, if we thought about it long and hard enough, we could
figure it out. I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...

"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
 
You got it Dan! I had a cartoon on my desk with the same message about the Columbine school shooting for a long time. I staudied under Chaplain Steven Lee who dealt with that tragety.
God help us all!
Chaplain Jim Wharton
 
the only thing I can say about it is.

we know not what we do to our selves when we let others lead us with out thinking first about it.:( it sure is sad..
 
being just 27 i am sad also at what ppl get away with it seems im rare in the fact i see no problem with taking responablity for ones actions
that said im getting ready to get my first big deal more on that later i did it and now im goingto pay the piper :o
also i rember being 15 and wanting to slap the mother for letting her 3 year old tell her what to do she said no the first time then after the kid talked back to her and demanded it she caved and got him what he wanted:mad:
i am most thankfull for my mother and the way she had brought me up
 
I feel its no ones fault but your own, you can blame him and her, they and them. But it all comes back to the parents and the children to teach and learn whats right or wrong. Sure none of us really know how are kids will turn out, and some no matter what will turn out bad, all we can do is our best and then pray we did good. If someone told you to go jump off a cliff would you? No, so don't blame others for teaching you and yours what you are against. Just because they took God out of school (which I believe was an idiotic thing to do) it doesn't mean you can't teach God and Godly ways at home. The only way things will ever get back to respect for others and yourself is if your brought up and taught this at home. The parent/parents are the main roll models of our children from the day their born until the day they move out and live on their own and most of the time until the day we die. If you let them know certain things are alright to do then they will do them. The people that wanted GOD removed from the schools were most likely raised as atheists, therefore going back to the parents. I agree "we reap what we sow", but its only because we taught others what to sow that makes things so different today.

OK I'm done now, :)

Bill
 
Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they
misbehaved because their little personalities would be warped and
we might damage their self-esteem.
And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we won't
spank them anymore..
Click to expand...

Before he died, that fool, Spock, realized just how wrong he had been and said so publicly, but by then no one listened as they couldn't admit they had so little common sense as to listen to a doctor on how to raise their own children. So it goes on. After all, someone has to raise our children for us, we don't have time. Why doesn't the gubment take care of them.:jerkit::rolleyes:

We now have a generation of sociopaths growing up that have absolutely zero values.
 
Bill I think you have a lot of right in what you say the problem is, now, we have kids having kids that have not been taught and it is the erosion we face. sure we teach god at home but what about the others that don't?, at least if it were in the schools there would be a fear of something bigger than us but kids
just as soon whack themselves now for no fear of dieing. and some will jump if you tell them too. remember the comet, sheep lead to death because they would not read the bible themselves just plain stupid. yes we all did this
but still most will hope for the best..:(

Mike :thumbup: the Dr. Benjamin Spock book lasted about 2 days in this house. if it was that long...you could see it was hog wash..we need values
and if not taught then, who will teach them? the GOV our leader? the ones we put there to retire on our money? I'll shut up now :rolleyes:
 
One of the major contributing factors to the problem is the rise of the two-income household. Now days, most families can't survive (or are not willing to) on a single income, so both parents work. Two parents, tired from a long day at work, coming home to "nuke" dinner for the kids and collapse. So, not only are the schools not "disciplining" kids, the parents aren't "parenting" either. (Note: I am not condoning a return to the "woman in the home" crap -- but one of the parents should be there when the kids get home).

I'm lucky enough to have a stay-at-home wife who takes care of the household (if she could make as much money as I, it would be me at home -- I'd love it -- I'd clean up and shop like a whirlwind, them make knives for the rest of the day!).

Our kids get plenty of our time, as my wife is there for them 24 x 7 (including all school trips), and I, upon arriving home from the office, get to spend time with them instead of helping to cook and clean.

The difference between my kids and most of the other kids at their school is enormous. My girls are polite, intelligent, healty, caring and hardworking. Most of the other kids are out of control, and many on Ridelin (or whatever it is) to combat their poor microwave diets.

While it is tempting to sympatize with two-income households (it is hard to get by with just one), the fact is, most don't need the second income -- it is just going for day-care, second-car payments, a big mortgage, lots of grown-up toys etc. With a small house, one car, frugality and no credit-card debt, most families could get by quite well on one income.

The point is -- it is not just the schools and government that are contributing to the declining morality and responsibility in our kids -- it is our own acceptance and pursuit of the level consumerism and debt that requires both parent to work.

One of the things I've come to admire about the full-time makers that come to these forums is that many of them have made great financial sacrifices to pursue work that they love. Many have given up higher paying jobs to pursue the craft. If only more families would give up income in the same manner in order to "be there" for their kids.
 
Dan,

EXCELLENT post! and right on the money!

Chant,

There is much to your argument on the two income household.
One of the major reasons for the 'need' for a two income home is the huge tax burden that the liberals/socialists have saddled our society with. It's not just the income tax on the wage earner but the the taxes that businesses and manufacturers have to pay. Much of these taxes are hidden in the costs of the goods and services they provide to their customers.
In the end, it is the wage earner that winds up paying for the lions' share of these taxes.

Just my .02, but I've been around long enough to remember when things were FAR different!

-Mike-
 
Mike,

You are right. It is not as simple as both parents working just because they want toys. The whole economy now seems to be geared to supporting social programs ("it takes a village to raise a child" -- as if the state could ever be a good substitute for a village!), and people are forced into two incomes. I read somewhere a while back that the average household after-tax income (adjusted for inflation) is actually less now, with two workers, than it was in the seventies. Hard to beleive, with all the great "stuff" people have now, but when you factor in today's high levels of household debt and taxes, I can see it.
 
Chant said:
Mike,

You are right. It is not as simple as both parents working just because they want toys. The whole economy now seems to be geared to supporting social programs ("it takes a village to raise a child" -- as if the state could ever be a good substitute for a village!),
Click to expand...

That's hitlary clintons version of socialism/communism:barf:. The gubment has no place telling people how to raise their children.

It takes caring competent parents to raise a child. It just takes the neighbors being able to smack them upside the head when they cause trouble to keep them straight, and parents that aren't afraid to spank the child for causing the neighbor such problems that he had to resort to that.

We used to get it from the neighbors if we caused trouble on their property, etc. they would then tell our parents and then they would spank hell out of us for doing it, as well as embarrassing them in that fashion.
It taught accountability and to view things beyond the "ME".

How did the human race last so long without the incompetent gubment telling us how to do things that come naturally to those with common sense?:rolleyes:

If people can't display an ounce of common sense because they've been on welfare subsidized crack for generations, then they should be sterilized. Those types of people shouldn't be allowed to have children, let alone encouraged by the demoncrats to hatch illigitimate frogs one after another for more welfare money and of course, creating more demoncrat votes.:barf::rolleyes: And that's exactly whats been going on for years.:eek:

Bah! Makes me sick thinking of it all.:barf:
 
I'm not a religious person, but certainly not against it, and it doesn't bode well to me that the death of children at schools can be used as an agenda for bringing church back into schools. While church does teach good morals, it is ultimately up to the parents to instill those values in their children. And truthfully, even good parenting isn't enough -- genetics will still get the upperhand on environment on occasion.
 
Burchtree said:
I'm not a religious person, but certainly not against it, and it doesn't bode well to me that the death of children at schools can be used as an agenda for bringing church back into schools. While church does teach good morals, it is ultimately up to the parents to instill those values in their children. And truthfully, even good parenting isn't enough -- genetics will still get the upperhand on environment on occasion.
Click to expand...
mike my point was if church was in the schools we'd have less of that
20 20 is proof of it. it's not the whole answer for sure but it will mark my words get worst as we do less of what was right in the past..as the kids grow and don't know these values we'll see it gone for sure.
I got smacked up beside my head more that once and I'm no worst for it.
 
"I got smacked up beside my head more that once and I'm no worst for it."

Dan, if I was you I'd not put this one up for a vote!:D :D :jerkit:

Mike Hull,

Right on! It didn't take too many a$$ whippins by the neighbors (followed by more of the same when I got home) to teach me proper respect for others and that there ARE consequences (responsibility) when the line is crossed!
I fear for the future of my kids and grand kids.

But let's not worry too much about things---Hillary is going to fix things up for us all real soon.:barf: :barf: :barf:

-Mike-
 
micad said:
"I got smacked up beside my head more that once and I'm no worst for it."

Dan, if I was you I'd not put this one up for a vote!:D :D :jerkit:
-
Click to expand...

I see your point:(


:)
 
I went to Catholic school and was whacked on the knuckles more than once for screwin' around and ya know what? I didn't do it again.

I homeschooled my daughter until 7th grade. When she started school I would get phone calls from the teachers about how well-behaved she was and how she didn't cuss them out. I couldn't believe that they'd call to tell me that when in my day the only time the teacher called home was when you were bad. Now they call home when your kid is good.

My daughter says that at med time (twice a day) the classrooms practically empty while kids go line up for their "meds". While some kids may have a genuine problem I know a lot of kids who just need a good old fashioned a$$-whippin'. There were some nights when I was a kid that me and my sisters were just in such a mood that we threw fits until we got a whippin' and sent to bed. Sometimes a kid just needs a good spanking.
 
Dan Gray said:
mike my point was if church was in the schools we'd have less of that
20 20 is proof of it. it's not the whole answer for sure but it will mark my words get worst as we do less of what was right in the past..as the kids grow and don't know these values we'll see it gone for sure.
I got smacked up beside my head more that once and I'm no worst for it.
Click to expand...

Dan, you're talking to the wrong guy about that. I despise all organized religion. I believe it no better than communism in that it's the control of many by the few, for the enrichment and power of the few.
Without exception when religion has come to power anywhere, death and injustice and brutality reigned supreme.

I do believe in God, but don't believe he/she lives in those despicable towers of vanity called churches. God is everywhere and you don't have to belong to religion x to talk to him. Just open your heart and do it. God will listen.

I was raised from the time I was 8, to 13 years of age in a catholic boarding school. This same order of nuns that ran these schools all over the western world including Australia, New Zealand, Sough Africa, all over the UK and here in the States are all involved in lawsuits(except here because of statute of limitations that won't bend) for torture and other forms of abuse including starvation, slave labor, rape,.......I could go on for pages, but this was all done in the name of christ, by the brides of christ, the nuns.

Religion can never be trusted like that to where that type of thing can happen to kids again.
I've helped many survivors of those slime pits from all over the world, for years, till I started having symptoms of a breakdown a year ago and had to stop. You can't imagine in your worst nightmare how bad the catholic church is and what it did to so many.
It's almost indescribable what they did to children who's only crime was being poor. I saw stories(verified) that would make you puke. But it wasn't too surprising to me as I was there.

The catholic church is still covering up all of this where it can.

Let people raise their children with common sense and love, and keep the government and church out of it. They are both about the same, just go by different names.
 
I'm not a fan of religion either. I was lucky enough to have been raised without religion. However, the core "values" that religion teaches are needed in schools (though I don't beleive they should touch the bible stuff). Do unto others, etc.

Also, I was never given an ass-whupping -- I was raised by a single mother, and when I misbehaved, she TALKED to me about it. I learned by dialog, rather than spankings. And it worked.

I do the same with my kids -- I never hit them or spank them, I discuss their behavior with them, and send them to their rooms if they are out of control (haven't had to do that in years). They are very well behaved, very communicative of any problems they are having at school, etc.

I don't buy the "spare the rod and spoil the child" stuff, for the most part (yah, I know, some kids need it know matter how much you talk to them, but they are rare). I think "spare the love and spoil the child" is more accurate.

Regarding the pills kids are lining up to take at school - Ritalin etc. - the "attention deficit" crap has more to do with the diet of the kids than anything -- they are being fed highly processed foods (nuked dinners, processed school lunches etc.), esp. full of processed grain oils and corn fructose etc. This stuff really screws up metabolisms if you eat too much of it. Interestingly, the "invention" of attention deficit disorder (made up by the American Psychiatric society with full support of the pharmaceuticals selling Ritalin) only started appearing around the time grain oils started replacing butter, and corn sugars started replacing cane sugars. Also, "attention deficit disorder" is an "ailment" that is only occuring in western countries (mostly the U.S.) -- countries that eat lots of McFood. Again, it falls back to parents not having the time in our over-taxed, two income world to properly feed their kids. Pizza pockets don't make for calm, thoughtful children.

Sorry to carry on, but the whole ritalin thing really burns me up. The psychiatrists make money prescribing it, the pharmaceuticals make money selling it, the parents get drugged up kids they can plop down in front of the T.V. without disciplining, and the teachers get drugged up kids they don't have to teach good manners to. What do the kids get? A childhood spent in white noise.:grumpy:
 
OK Sunday sermon
those of you that don't care about your or your kids destiny don't read this
Mike,,, catholic :barf:
I see what's wrong there with your ideals because of the catholic up bringing.
I agree in most part but you've been turned off because of a strong mind and Catholicism, because you saw it wrong, many will not.... yes just believing is good but not enough..
The bible says to congregate and the Buildings used called church is a place meant to do so, labeled church, it could be a home as well to do as the lord asks of us, under the sky is good too.

the difference in god fearing and following his word/ versus following a catholic
or any other wrong religion is the reason I don't go to so called church any longer,
it seems a place for people to get a quick heal up and then go back at it,,I won't be a hypocrite that way..if you ask for forgiveness you don't go out and to it all over again...

two of many things with the right religion as I see it,
1 know the word of God by knowing the bible ( it's his word) the old bible) not what others tell you it says so don't take my word for it read.,,, for many years with the catholic (my grand mother was old school catholic) you were not to read the bible,,you did what they told you to do and paid your 10% that should have been the first big hint to God fearing people
2 , to not follow the bible is wrong, it says, to follow the easy road is the wrong way, to study his word is,
well I could go on and on but wont with this, but basically, ignorance of it is not bliss and it says this.

I know you're point, the places now seem to be a religion Band-Aid hospital
that does not teach but what the follower wants to hear,, a big difference to the right way..
to walk the fence is not good enough for him, the word says that, Satan will keep you on the fence if he can that's all he needs to do to win..

I studied a few different ( so called) religions only looking to find the right one with an open mind, the right one so far is the bible with a few friends with the same agenda and it's said to spread the word so there I went here ..

if you believe in trinity? I can tell you why it's not so,,, and it can't be debated, I know different..
knowing what the Bible says will protect you from the wrong religions.
the bible will not contradict itself, this alone tells you it was not told by man but by God himself.
I've found that the more you know the less you know about it and the more questions you have, there's only one place for the answers. and it needs to be read ourselves not told to us..
one thing for our kids,
the Bible says "spare the rod spoil the child."
from this a lady down the road that I know well says we are to give our kids candy to make them do right when they have done wrong...not spank them.
the meaning because she can't see is, if you don't spank the child you'll spoil them.

she taught Sunday school :eek:
we can see what's wrong here..for the atheist
we weren't put here for less than 100 years just to die that makes no sense. the question, what lay a head for us..does anyone here know what's in store for them?? but for now
we are tuning into another Babylon and we will pay for it..one way or the other that is clear.. of course as always JMHO :)
 
I am not religious and never have been. I am a good person, as good as I can be, and dont think that has anything to do with religion. If religion were in schools we might have less of those problems, but if there were ANY form of guilt or punishment for immoral behavior, we would see the same results. Sometimes people need religion to line out for them right and wrong where they cannot determine it for themself, other times religion just reinforces what they already know. I dont think one requires the other.

I think of most religions like a tool and think mainly of the Buddhist belif that buddhism and its belifs are like a raft. If you come to a river and need a raft, you use it and cross to the other side. Once you are on the other side of the river, you dont need to burden yourself by carrying that raft around all the time. It may not apply to Christian beliefs, but it rings true for how I see the world. Some churches have God in them, Some chruches have families in them, some churches have a congregation of one, and I dont think any are any more correct than others.

Would there be less juvenile violence if religion was taught in schools? Maybe...would there be as much free thought in terms of religion? probably not....and I am not the one to say which is more important. I will, however say that my delves into eastern thought that influenced my overall outlook on life would most likely not have happened at all had I been forced to believe one set of ideals and rules. For myself only, I am grateful that I was given the room to explore my own world and find a set of ideals that most closely resemble what I, down deep, feel is the core of it all. Those ideals are not any one set of beliefs or dogma, but rather a collection of many that all seem to tell the same story, in different voices.

What I see as the problem is that while the absence of religion is not in of itself harmful, the absence of a general sense of morals, regardless of attaching it to a strict set of rules, is terribly damaging and is what I see happening more and more.
 
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