Why do Emersons/Striders/Hinderers etc. cost so much more?

H

Hadji Flip Me Over

Joined
Mar 1, 2010
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I apologize if I'm beating a dead horse.

I would like to know more about the mystique of various "super high-end" knife makers, more specifically the ones I mentioned in the subject line. I understand they use very exotic materials and charge a fair amount more than most other knife companies, but are you paying for increases in durability or just something to ogle at? I've heard a few complaints about quality control issues with Emersons and Striders out of the box, but they were remedied quickly as far as I'm aware. Don't get me wrong, they're certainly beautiful and very functional, but do they offer any significant advantages that can't be had with something like Benchmade, Spyderco, Cold Steel (with regards to overall durability in folders), ZT, or the like for significantly less money?

Thanks for helping me understand. :thumbup:
 
The wiseguy answer is that these makers are charging what the market will bear. :)

Are the materials and workmanship so awesome that an Emerson is "worth" $200, or a Strider $350? Not in my book. They use G10, 154CM, S30V and titanium, just like the "lesser" knives. Liner locks and frame locks just like Spyderco and Benchmade.

Yet I own them both. :) Why? I love knives. The carrying, using, fondling and so forth.

But they don't disassemble a box any better than does a Tenacious - though you don't have to sharpen them as often. And a FFG Tenacious probably goes through a box better than does an Emerson.

So, they do have a certain appeal, which can be intoxicating to real knife freaks. But I don't think they are objectively "worth" 10x what you pay for a Tenacious.

Others will say that when you find a tool like a CQC-7 that fits your needs, and maybe saves your life, the cost is not a factor. I get that argument. And its a good one. Thats just not me.

And the good part is that we can buy or not buy what we wish. Its all good. :thumbup:
 
Does a Rolex tell time better than a Casio?

Would you rather drive a Porsche or a VW?

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5.56 said:
Does a Rolex tell time better than a Casio?
Would you rather drive a Porsche or a VW?
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Porsche and VW are the same thing according to some people. :P
I understand what you're trying to get at, but is the exorbitant price justified? If I had the money to buy them, I probably would just because they're very nice and I have a fascination with knives. But from my point of view, it seems like there's not all that much to gain by doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling the price to the $4-500 range, and I could get myself a decent gun for that amount of money. Is the jump in quality and performance along the lines of what you get by moving from a 30-dollar knife to a 120-dollar knife?
 
powernoodle said:
The wiseguy answer is that these makers are charging what the market will bear. :)

Are the materials and workmanship so awesome that an Emerson is "worth" $200, or a Strider $350? Not in my book. They use G10, 154CM, S30V and titanium, just like the "lesser" knives. Liner locks and frame locks just like Spyderco and Benchmade.

Yet I own them both. :) Why? I love knives. The carrying, using, fondling and so forth.

But they don't disassemble a box any better than does a Tenacious - though you don't have to sharpen them as often. And a FFG Tenacious probably goes through a box better than does an Emerson.

So, they do have a certain appeal, which can be intoxicating to real knife freaks. But I don't think they are objectively "worth" 10x what you pay for a Tenacious.

Others will say that when you find a tool like a CQC-7 that fits your needs, and maybe saves your life, the cost is not a factor. I get that argument. And its a good one. Thats just not me.

And the good part is that we can buy or not buy what we wish. Its all good. :thumbup:
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What he said.
 
I feel the same as the others as far as price-value are concerned. I owned a Sebenza once and the thing cut and opened like butter. I loved the fact that I could take the entire thing apart and put it back together without voiding the warranty. With that said if I had an extra 300 I'm my account burning a whole in my pocket I wouldn't buy another. I am trying to procure a strider by trading my glock for it so go figure. I think this question applies to the same question as to why people even spend $50 dollars on a knife instead of flea market cheapies. I don't think that the prices are fair though having said that but if people will pay it then companies will charge it. From what I've seen most of it is undeserved hype.
 
Hadji Flip Me Over said:
Porsche and VW are the same thing according to some people. :P
I understand what you're trying to get at, but is the exorbitant price justified?
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You keep on stating things like they are facts when they are not. Are their prices exorbitant? I don't think so. They are selling specialized designs in high-end materials to a limited market and backing those designs up with solid warranties. For those reasons I think Strider et al's prices are reasonable.

If I had the money to buy them, I probably would just because they're very nice and I have a fascination with knives. But from my point of view, it seems like there's not all that much to gain by doubling, tripling, or even quadrupling the price to the $4-500 range, and I could get myself a decent gun for that amount of money.
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How's that gun break down a box? ;)
Is the jump in quality and performance along the lines of what you get by moving from a 30-dollar knife to a 120-dollar knife?
Click to expand...

This is a great question. There are some fantastic $120 knives out there. I honestly think it's hard to improve on a Spyderco Military, for example, for regular knife tasks and it uses the same S30V and G10 as plenty of higher-priced customs.

The specific knives you've mentioned tend to trade more on design (not a lot of waved knives out there except for Emersons until very recently; Strider's handle shapes work very for me so I'm willing to pay extra for that) or on service and support. Break your Military prying open a box? You'll buy a new one. Do the same thing to a Strider? They will take care of you. Additionally, I would guess that Spyderco sells a lot more Militaries than Strider does SMFs. So you're paying for more "artisanal" processes vs mass production. Some people appreciate that, others don't care. From a using perspective it makes little difference but from a pride of ownership perspective it does.
 
It comes down to what level of quality you're willing to accept. That's pretty much it. I have a couple of things I look for in a knife, and then I buy what fits my wants, and needs.

Made in America
Made of Quality Materials
Fit and Finish to an acceptable level (Close, but not perfect is ok for the price range I shop in)
Usually around $100 to $150 for a folder.

Can I find a decent knife that fits all of that?

Yep, that's what I buy.

Can I find a cheaper knife that isn't made in America (China or Taiwan), and that's made of lesser materials (maybe 440A or B, Plastic instead of G10), but still does the job it was intended for?

Sure, but I won't and that's my choice.


Others prefer to buy an Emerson over a Benchmade, or a Stryder over a ZT or Kershaw (I still don't understand that one). That's their choice, and they can do that. One day I may change and start buying nothing but hand made Custom knives, and that's ok, it's my choice. Others prefer to buy the cheap knives out of china, and that's their choice.

Does that make sense?


Good Luck,

DBAR
 
Its all a personal preference. Its called the line of diminishing return and its different for everyone.

You find it with all fine things:whiskey, watches, knives, Guns, ETC

There is a point were the amount of performance you get in something costs exponentially more. for instance a bottle of blantons bourbon is smoother than makers and only double the price, however a bottle of pappys is only a bit smoother and 5 times the price. To some people that not worth it. To me and many others it is. When you put alot of time and personal attention into things that is where the cost somes from, and while the return may be paltry to some it makes all the differenc ein the world to others myself included.
 
I'll play! :D

In my opinion they don't offer any advantages over any less expensive knife utility wise.

What I get out of these 3 that I can't get with other knives?
Warranty, Design, finishes [specifically striders digi camo/flamed ti], and above and beyond Fit and Finish [Hinderer, CRK *Tolerances/easy take down*].

Whether or not these factors are as important enough for you too spend the extra $$$ is, as everyone else has already mentioned, is up to you.

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Agree with the guys up above. You can find the same type of thing with all tools and gadgets when it comes to bang for buck/good enough products vs latest, coolest, status bumping, higher priced products. It might not ever really make sense until you end up being the one who bought the very expensive tool/gadget and someone asks why the heck did you pay so much.

If $1,000 pistols, $400 folding knives, $100 flashlights, $150 pair of boots, etc. makes someone happy doesn't really matter the reason. I'm happy for the guys who can afford expensive goodies on a regular basis even if I'm not currently able or willing to. Life is very short and fragile - the more any of us can "live it up", the better!
 
Design, materials, and performance. All important and I am willing to pay a reasonable amount for these qualities.
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the way i look at it is a $300 or $400 or more knife will last a very long time. if you're not prone to loosing things a knife that you have for 10 years and cost $400 works out to $40 a year. that is nothing compared to some consumables (candy bars in my case). then the knife can be sold and some or most of the initial investment can be recouped. now if you loose a lot of things you would be better off with the $5 flea market knives.
 
For a Hinderer, he actually charges in the neighborhood of $400-$500 for his XM-18(or so I'm told). But the market is willing to pay more for them, and so the prices are typically in the $550-$700 range for the same knife.

Not quite the same for Emerson knives, as he charges exactly what the market is willing to bear(maybe even a little more). Ditto with Strider knives, though I suspect there's more demand for Striders than Emerson.

Though there seems to be a high demand for hard use tactical knives, so that may drive the price up as knife makers push the prices higher rather than step up production to keep up with demand.
 
For a Hinderer, he actually charges in the neighborhood of $400-$500 for his XM-18(or so I'm told). But the market is willing to pay more for them, and so the prices are typically in the $550-$700 range for the same knife.
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Actually, the quote I got from him direct was $385 for the XM-18 and $550 (something like that) for the XM-24. The secondardy market mark up is significant.

Regarding the threat subject, it's been said. Find one of these knives and hold them. Open and close them a few times, use them if you can. They are significantly better in fit/finish, how they sit in your hand, etc. That being said, a $25 CRKT works just fine for 99% of the poeple out there.
 
They are all excellent products. Are they "worth" that much? I guess that depends on what that means to you. They certainly don't cost any where close to that to make. IMO, certain knives & companies have achieved cult status. The one's you mention above fit that bill, to also include Busse, Chris Reeve, Microtech, and many others.

When you get to that level, you can charge for the exclusivity. That's why a Hinderer XM-24 that he sells to LEOs, military and fire fighters directly are double the price for everyone else buying through a middle man (the middle man being the one that inflates the price, I believe). For me, a XM-24 is worth $450, but not over $1000 as some websites have sold it for. But you know what, that $1000 knife will sell in a few hours of posting...make that minutes.

I'm not picking on Hinderer as you could easily replace that brand with any of the other cult knives. Heck I received a "back in stock" notification for a Strider SMF CC Nightmare grind that was $1350...in the 15 min it took me to mull over if it was "worth it", it sold. I guess a lot of people sign up for those notifications, haha!!!

My .02 cents, Rob
 
Design? No. Many production models are licensed customs. Many customs do not perform as well as pure productions.

Ergonomics? No. Same as the design, you can spit out 1,000 comfy handles as well as you can spit out 10 if that is your production target.

Function? No. They are folding knives. Folding knives fold and cut. You want to pry, you just need thicker blade stock and a large load bearing surface at the pivot. Knives still won't pry very well, but you can, and for less money.

Materials? No. Like powernoodle stated, same steel, Ti, and G10.

Performance? No. Lock strength, edge geometry, heat treat etc. can all be met/exceeded for less money.

Longevity? No. There are 30, 50, 70 year old knives on the market that still work fine. Their replacements from makers like Case would cost a fifth of these brands mentioned. Heck, they even come in stainless now.

Fit and finish? Maybe, depends on the brand and the model.

Exclusivity? Yes. They are priced out of the reach of most people, for a tool most people don't use (in the primary markets where they are even heavily regulated/banned), advertised in ways most people don't care about (particularly the military/service themes where very few can afford them on government pay scales)

Limited production? Some, yes. Goes with the exclusivity, but also means manufacturing costs are higher per unit, so retail price is also higher.

I personally don't put Emersons at the same level. I do think they are overpriced and don't have the materials & F&F to compete with Spyderco & Benchmade models of the same street price, but they aren't clearly priced in custom territory. I have owned several knives in Sebenza & XM price ranges, but they were all made to order.
 
A premium price for name recognition. As long as the market supports it, that's the price for these.

I've never understood the mindset of: "Is the price justified?" A manufacturer can charge what they want, and based upon those market trends, adjust their asking price accordingly. A manufacturer doesn't have to justify anything, and can charge whatever they want, and deal with the positive or negative ramifications.
 
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