Why do Emersons/Striders/Hinderers etc. cost so much more?

razorsdescent said:
Its all a personal preference. Its called the line of diminishing return and its different for everyone.

You find it with all fine things:whiskey, watches, knives, Guns, ETC

There is a point were the amount of performance you get in something costs exponentially more. for instance a bottle of blantons bourbon is smoother than makers and only double the price, however a bottle of pappys is only a bit smoother and 5 times the price. To some people that not worth it. To me and many others it is. When you put alot of time and personal attention into things that is where the cost somes from, and while the return may be paltry to some it makes all the differenc ein the world to others myself included.
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we have a winner;)
Any alcohol will get you drunk at the end but I prefer a smooth one; same for knives
 
It's basically because there's a certain point to where the tool becomes functional art.

As a tool, no knife is going to give you $500 (or for the love of god even 150 dollars of performance) of performance, but as a tool + piece of finely calibrated art; lots of time taken to make it extra strong, extra precise, extra light, more aesthetically pleasing.

That is what you are paying for, you are paying for the art of the tool not just the function. Because No one is ever going to make a knife that cuts 450 dollars better than a 50 dollar knife at the end of the day.

It is up to the beholder if it is worth it.

Having said that I own many knives that cost hundreds dollars; and to me, it is worth it because they are more than knives, they are functional crafted pieces of art.
You can go to a store and get a cheap Monet print. Or you can spend (insert insanely high price) and try to buy at auction an original piece of artwork from some famous artist.

Hope this in some way helps.
 
Blade Junky said:
Lets see if we can summarize some of the responses given to the original question.

1. Custom knife makers should all quit making their knives . . .
2. Small companies should also close their doors . . .
3. If you buy . . . from one of the 3 aforementioned makers/shops, you're . . . stupid
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Just to keep it real here, no one said any of those things.

What I'm seeing from the responses is that people have opinions as to whether an Emerson, Strider or Hinderer is "worth" the coinage, but most folks seem to have a "live and let live" approach - which I very much appreciate.
 
FrankRaz1114 said:
Sorry sir but you need to reread my post .
I talked about materials and performance , not precision and build quality .
I buy knives in order to use them , not to look at them or store them inside a damn safe .
The "precision" and "build quality" of your CRK and Hinderer are not making them perform any better then my BM 806 M390 .
My 200$ BM 806 have a significantly better steel , significantly stronger and more reliable lock , significantly faster opening and also significantly lighter then your CRK and Hinderer as well .
I would take my 806 over your Hinderer and CRK any day of the week , and yes I handled both the XM18 and the Umnumzaan .

You are right , I can't get identical knife to an Emerson for half the price , I can get better , far stronger, more reliable knife for 1/4 of the price such as CS Lawman .
That CS would also have way better fit and finish then your 200$ Emerson .
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Really??? Significantly....I didn't realize that the Axis lock or the M390 steel used by in the 806 was so much better, stronger, reliable than a well tuned frame lock and well heat treated S30V/S35VN...both of which the CRK & Hinderer are. The faster opening and lighter are probably more objective or quantifiable points which I'll concur too.

The first two though about the lock and blade steel...that's more personal preference and arguably just plain wrong for many here. Now if you are a diehard BM fan, great, but IMO you're making some inaccurate statements.

Just sayin'
 
Jiman said:
Really??? Significantly....I didn't realize that the Axis lock or the M390 steel used by in the 806 was so much better, stronger, reliable than a well tuned frame lock and well heat treated S30V/S35VN...both of which the CRK & Hinderer are. The faster opening and lighter are probably more objective or quantifiable points which I'll concur too.

The first two though about the lock and blade steel...that's more personal preference and arguably just plain wrong for many here. Now if you are a diehard BM fan, great, but IMO you're making some inaccurate statements.

Just sayin'
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In my opinion , M390 is significantly better steel then S30V
I never been very impressed with S30V , maybe its was a bad luck and I just had lemons , but the steel never impressed me
Chip too easily and doesn't hold a razor edge for very long at all.

I don't care how well tuned and fancy is your 600$ frame lock , an AXIS lock will be stronger and much more reliable most of the time
I had beefy frame lock bars slipping and accidentally dissengaging on me more then once , but never had any issues with AXIS locks , and I was beating some AXIS knives to death during my service , even ones with only single omega spring , and while they developed good wiggle , they never gave up
These AXIS locks are brutally strong

I'm not a "diehard" fan of any company , definitely not BM , just calling it like it is according to my decently extensive personal experience and common sense
 
Jiman said:
Really??? Significantly....I didn't realize that the Axis lock or the M390 steel used by in the 806 was so much better, stronger, reliable than a well tuned frame lock and well heat treated S30V/S35VN...both of which the CRK & Hinderer are. The faster opening and lighter are probably more objective or quantifiable points which I'll concur too.

The first two though about the lock and blade steel...that's more personal preference and arguably just plain wrong for many here. Now if you are a diehard BM fan, great, but IMO you're making some inaccurate statements.

Just sayin'
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M390 has more wear resistance, more impact toughness, and higher working hardness. Of course a 20CV Hinderer would be the same since it is essentially the same alloy. The axis lock is stronger, as are a few other locks. Reliability would require some hard data.
 
OK.....In my opinion, as you get more into knives and handle/use more models, you begin to realize minor and very subtle things that are either particularly exceptional or noticeably 'not so great'. Then, when you handle much higher end knives, you may (or not) see that a lot of those smaller details that you like (better f&f, tighter tolerances, made in USA, great warranty, pride of ownership, resale value, better durability, exotic steels) present all in one or maybe two knives rather than say 15 or 20 knives that may have these features but spread across the whole lot of them. Essentially, you appreciate the finer details rather than expecting some huge increase in quality or something incredible when the value is in the finer details. Personally, I never saw a reason to spend that much money on a knife for a long time. Then I held a Sebenza at a show and that was it. :D
 
Wow. Dont know what drew me to this thread, perhaps - Mood. All ready to go and then I did see a post by BBW so I will say that at the outset even though I already knew my "feelings".
I call B.S. to a degree on some of the posts. I LOVE and OWN many Watches, High End Audio, Knives, Guns, Cars, Tools, TOYS.........Etc. Why? Cuz its Fun, I can, I appreciate the Quality.
It is the rarified air. For those who do not understand that - No explanation possible. For those who do understand that - No explanation needed.
IF you like Quality stuff and can really appreciate what it takes to create such a level - You already get it.
IF it doesnt matter - no problem. I feel a little sorry for you but you dont miss what yoiu dont see. Right?
As for those who really see it and have the means to aquire, Congrats.
Thank you to those who risk much to create that which is trully beautiful, not for mass appeal therefor not great profit but many know, Riches are not always simply measured by signs ($$)
ALL knives cut. ALL watches tell time. ALL cars go fast. ALL stereos play music. Yes.... and ALL people breath - DO you want to spend your time with ALL of them???
 
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rubiconss said:
Wow. Dont know what drew me to this thread, perhaps - Mood. All ready to go and then I did see a post by BBW so I will say that at the outset even though I already knew my "feelings".
I call B.S. to a degree on some of the posts. I LOVE and OWN many Watches, High End Audio, Knives, Guns, Cars, Tools, TOYS.........Etc. Why? Cuz its Fun, I can, I appreciate the Quality.
It is the rarified air. For those who do not understand that - No explanation possible. For those who do understand that - No explanation needed.
IF you like Quality stuff and can really appreciate what it takes to create such a level - You already get it.
IF it doesnt matter - no problem. I feel a little sorry for you but you dont miss what yoiu dont see. Right?
As for those who really see it and have the means to aquire, Congrats.
Thank you to those who risk much to create that which is trully beautiful, not for mass appeal therefor not great profit but many know, Riches are not always simply measured by signs ($$)
ALL knives cut. ALL watches tell time. ALL cars go fast. ALL stereos play music. Yes.... and ALL people breath - DO you want to spend your time with ALL of them???
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you or you misunderstood me? don't know why you are quoting me. I was being sarcastic and supporting the fact that..... well, pretty much what you said and others have. Different reasons and all valid. If you get it good; if not buy cheap and spend your money in something else
Cheers
 
BBW said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you or you misunderstood me? don't know why you are quoting me. I was being sarcastic and supporting the fact that..... well, pretty much what you said and others have. Different reasons and all valid. If you get it good; if not buy cheap and spend your money in something else
Cheers
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Sorry. My Bad, you were quoting someone else (RazorDescent) missed the origin of your post and your sarcasm. I actually believe because I have witnessed the cost of the increments that reside at the point referred to as Dimishing returns. Happen to think those increments are worth the price tag. Again. sorry for the misquote reference, hope it wasnt too unpleasent:)
 
My extensive research and countless hours of endless hard use which includes spinewhacking down trees, whittling cinder blocks, and throwing folders has taught me this: kives that cost less than $400 are really just sticks of poo dipped in blood and spooge then carbidized for maximum edge holding and brutal lock strength. the more expensive the knife, the more awesome it makes you. so if you don't wanna be a poo wielding Choad yodeler, buy a $1000 knife. guaranteed to get you laid too.




seriously, once you become a sick knife perve like most of us on here, you will buy them all. from $15.00 to $500. daddy like
 
rubiconss said:
Sorry. My Bad, you were quoting someone else (RazorDescent) missed the origin of your post and your sarcasm. I actually believe because I have witnessed the cost of the increments that reside at the point referred to as Dimishing returns. Happen to think those increments are worth the price tag. Again. sorry for the misquote reference, hope it wasnt too unpleasent:)
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no wories;)
 
I personally think that while it's great to buy the best you can afford, there are knives out there for less that can perform the same role better.

It all depends on what you imagine as the role of said knife to be.
 
Secondary market prices:
Eg: Emerson customs from Ernie direct cost $550 or thereabouts. Secondary market prices however are usually 1k and above.

Design: some designs are limited to custom-only, and thus command a premium as they cannot accurately be compared to a production version simply because the exact same design does not exist.
Eg: Strider Nightmare grinds; Emerson CQC-6; CQC-9, etc.

Ability of consumers to spend:
If I was simply looking for a tool to use, I would go for the cheapest tool. Would I care if it were S-30V, or ATS-34 or CPM154...etc? Maybe, but probably not. However, if I had the financial means to, I would definitely choose a better tool. Better in terms of steel, looks, etc. Would I be able to really perceive the differences between a better and a lesser model? maybe, but probably not. Why would I pay more for a tool over another? Simply because I could afford it.

Cheers and Regards,
Nick
 
Emerson Hinderer and a Strider are all much smaller companies than Benchmade/Kershaw/Spyderco. Lower production means higher costs. The warranty is also a factor. If you break your blade prying open a car door, Strider will fix it for the cost of shipping. Spyderco won't fix it at all.

Mick has also said that it costs him more to make an SMF than it would to buy an Emerson. Between the thicker Ti, thicker, more premium steel, much thicker milled piece of single G10, it makes sense. Plus, they have more hand fitting.
 
For me, CRKs and Hinderers deserve all the accolades given by all users that had the experience of handling these knives.

dsc09937l.jpg


However, i can't say the same thing about Strider!
 
jossta said:
Emerson Hinderer and a Strider are all much smaller companies than Benchmade/Kershaw/Spyderco. Lower production means higher costs. The warranty is also a factor. If you break your blade prying open a car door, Strider will fix it for the cost of shipping. Spyderco won't fix it at all.

Mick has also said that it costs him more to make an SMF than it would to buy an Emerson. Between the thicker Ti, thicker, more premium steel, much thicker milled piece of single G10, it makes sense. Plus, they have more hand fitting.
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I thought this wasn't the case per their new repair/warranty policy (modifications/abuse are no longer covered)?

I'm new to the higher-end production folder game, so I understand questions like the OP's, but I also understand "the sickness" :)

I'll say this. I bought a small Sebenza and while it may not be $200 more knife than my Spyderco Sage 2 (and I'm a HUGE Spyderco fan), it was definitely nicer. That and the shape/size/ergos/functionality were exactly what I wanted, so I paid the extra for it.

I just got my first Galyean Pro series (Small Junkyard Dog). I got that one more because I'm a fanboy of Tim and I love the ergos/design of that particular knife. I also have the Kershaw small JYD, so I have two knives that are very similar and even designed by the same guy. Is the Galyean Pro worth the extra $300? I don't know that it is, but it's definitely worth some amount of money more and since I really wanted one, it was worth exactly what I paid for it :)

I don't personally buy into the "tougher" argument, but I do understand significantly better fit/finish and even sometimes higher-end materials used. Still, that doesn't usually justify the $200-$300 more for higher-end production folders over mid-level folders (~$50-$100). Not even when you combine all of that with a smaller manufacturing facilities.

At the end of the day, you're paying at least some amount of that extra price for someone's name and his loyal following - and there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

That is specifically why Rick Hinderer's knives sell for staggeringly higher prices than his own retail price. That and the fact that by only selling to distributors/dealers who sell exclusively to Law Enforcement and Military, he sort of setup the ground work for a very limited market that some dealers/distributors have taken full advantage of - which I think is crappy, but if I hit the lottery tomorrow... Hinderers for everyone (regardless of price)!
 
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