Why do I hate Cold Steel?

blades&wrenches

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Not a fan of CS either. Never owned one, probably never will. They just don't appeal to me. I'm sure they're well made but I'm not a fan of their ridiculous video demos and negative campaigning. Let your product speak for itself and don't show me why brand X will fail under abnormal circumstances.
 
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I can understand this, but what stops me dead in my tracks is his thinking that he owns the term "San Mai" and has sent out numerous cease and desist letters to custom knife makers for using the term.

Anyone that has That big of an ego, is not going to get one cent from me.


But then they patented "San Mai III" & used that to go after small knife makers. If you don't know "San Mai" is a Japanese term that predates the European Renaissance....

However, because of the "San Mai III" incident I'm done with them.

Right. And round holes have been around since Earth was formed. Anyone who would trademark the term Round Hole as it applies to knives and then legally pursue violators of that trademark must be a really egotistical jerk. Right?


TravisL, I'm not a psychologist. I'm just a guy who likes knives. If you've got an "irrational hatred" (your words) for Cold Steel, then don't buy the company's products. Since you've made a thread about the topic, however, I'm assuming that you want to be convinced that you're wrong. As a fan of the company and its knives, I believe that you are wrong. But I doubt highly that anything I say is going to persuade you.

If you're looking for a good Cold Steel to try, I suggest the Golden Eye. It's a fantastic knife.

tJBC5nr.jpg



As others have suggested, the Recon I is also a great introduction to Cold Steel's designs. I hope that you give Cold Steel a shot and decide for yourself about the knives.

-Steve
 
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Do they pay Spyderco for the Goldeneye? If not, it's gonna piss me off, doing that San Mai stuff, then ripping off the Spydiehole? If they do that, Sal should rip them a new Spydiehole for it. :mad:
:D
 

NJBillK

Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.
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Right. And round holes have been around since Earth was formed. Anyone who would trademark the term Round Hole as it applies to knives and then legally pursue violators of that trademark must be a really egotistical jerk. Right?
<snip>

-Steve

It is not that spyderco owns the circle, but they were the ones to patent it's usage as an alternative to the thumbstud. On top of that, it is a brand identifier.

Did you notice that there is not a patent on the thumbstud, but there is on an Emerson wave? Both are methods of opening a knife... the same thing that goes for the wave, goes for the spydiehole...

Just because you do not comprehend the difference between a company using a common grouping of words that have been around since the 1700s (or 1800s) that countless people have said, used, constructed, sold, and used to advertise with, versus one company using an ordinary shape as an ingenious method to open a knife, while doubling as an identifier of the brand, as being worthy of protection, doesn't mean that the rest of us don't...
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Steve ( T The Whip ), I know you checked the thread to see my reply due to my quoting you, it was in your "last seen" section...

Do you not have a rebuttal?

I am not trying to be trollish, I am genuinely curious if you have a different opinion or viewpoint on this matter, and if so, what they may be. I find discussions like this to be rather enlightening and entertaining.
 
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emjay4248

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Oct 8, 2016
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Ok, so hate might be a bit strong, but I can’t figure out why I have not (to this point) even considered a CS product when knife shopping. They seem to use good materials, they have designs that I like, and arguably the best or at least strongest lock in the industry. The Storm Cloud they have coming out this year looks right up my alley. 20cv steel with g10/cf scales. Maybe it’s that Lynn comes off as a pompous a$$:D or that the CS fanboys are annoying as hell if someone has a negative comment about one of their knives. (The Lynn comment isn’t fair, I have never met the man, but the fanboy part is true.) I guess I just need to get a couple to either confirm or get over whatever issue I have with them. Anyone else feel this way about a brand or company?
Well made knives but if you like flicking your knives it is tn the brand for you. They make the absolutely dumbest video's on you tube. What does someone expect when 800 Lbs. is hung from a PM2 and it snaps and why would someone need that. If you are using the knife for that kind of work you need a fixed blade not a folder. It's like taking a six cylinder car hauling a 50,000 Lb. trailer.
 
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Dec 20, 2007
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You need to look past the silly marketing. Cold Steel make a number of excellent knives. Strong points include their Triad lock, lightweight yet strong G-10 construction, practical geometries in Recon and Lawman and several other lines, and the widest selection of large folders in the market.
 
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Steve ( T The Whip ), I know you checked the thread to see my reply due to my quoting you, it was in your "last seen" section...

Do you not have a rebuttal?

I do, Bill. I'll ignore the ad hominem "obviously you're not smart enough to see what's so clear to the rest of us" portion of your argument.

Round Hole is a trademark now, just like San Mai is a trademark (trademark is "any name, symbol, figure, letter, word, or mark adopted and used by a manufacturer or merchant to distinguish a product or products from the ones manufactured or sold by others"). That you believe Thompson should not have been permitted to register "a common grouping of words" is irrelevant; the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office granted Cold Steel the trademark.

Since Cold Steel trademarked San Mai III back in the 1980s, for decades San Mai equated to Cold Steel. Up until a couple of years ago, if you Googled "san mai," you didn't get a single hit that wasn't about a Cold Steel knife. Then recently that term started seeing use by a few knife manufacturers and numerous knife makers. All of a sudden, it was the hot buzzword (thanks, at least in part, to Forged In Fire). Why would anyone blame Cold Steel for protecting its trademark when people began making money from and removing the exclusivity of a term that belonged to Cold Steel? I certainly wouldn't begrudge Spyderco for acting on its trademark if the same thing happened with its Round Hole.

The fact is, on these boards, some companies are adored and some are vilified...over and over and over again. The hypocrisy and double standards get really tiresome.

-Steve

P.S. - For those who don't know me (which is, for all intents and purposes, every person here), I want to clarify that my comparison with Spyderco was in no way a disparagement of Sal Glesser or his company. I'm merely drawing comparisons in the way the actions of different brands are characterized. I've met Sal Glesser and Lynn Thompson and have enjoyed speaking with both. I like Spyderco and Cold Steel, along with pretty much every other knife company out there. I have no idea why people feel the need to play favorites so vociferously.
 

NJBillK

Custom Leather and Fixed Blade modifications.
Joined
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I do, Bill. I'll ignore the ad hominem "obviously you're not smart enough to see what's so clear to the rest of us" portion of your argument.

Round Hole is a trademark now, just like San Mai is a trademark (trademark is "any name, symbol, figure, letter, word, or mark adopted and used by a manufacturer or merchant to distinguish a product or products from the ones manufactured or sold by others"). That you believe Thompson should not have been permitted to register "a common grouping of words" is irrelevant; the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office granted Cold Steel the trademark.

Since Cold Steel trademarked San Mai III back in the 1980s, for decades San Mai equated to Cold Steel. Up until a couple of years ago, if you Googled "san mai," you didn't get a single hit that wasn't about a Cold Steel knife. Then recently that term started seeing use by a few knife manufacturers and numerous knife makers. All of a sudden, it was the hot buzzword (thanks, at least in part, to Forged In Fire). Why would anyone blame Cold Steel for protecting its trademark when people began making money from and removing the exclusivity of a term that belonged to Cold Steel? I certainly wouldn't begrudge Spyderco for acting on its trademark if the same thing happened with its Round Hole.

The fact is, on these boards, some companies are adored and some are vilified...over and over and over again. The hypocrisy and double standards get really tiresome.

-Steve

P.S. - For those who don't know me (which is, for all intents and purposes, every person here), I want to clarify that my comparison with Spyderco was in no way a disparagement of Sal Glesser or his company. I'm merely drawing comparisons in the way the actions of different brands are characterized. I've met Sal Glesser and Lynn Thompson and have enjoyed speaking with both. I like Spyderco and Cold Steel, along with pretty much every other knife company out there. I have no idea why people feel the need to play favorites so vociferously.
My reason about Lynn pushing the "San Mai" issue onto smaller outfits, as well as custom knife makers, is that he has a patent on the words "SAN MAI with three vertical lines" meaning "SAN MAI III" for his particular knife.

The issues have arisen when Lynn started sending cease and desist letters to anyone using the term "San Mai" (Not "SAN MAI III") to describe their type of construction method. Due to this, many custom Knifemakers (including some that have a presence on this site) were being cornered into using other terminology...

That would be akin to Spyderco sending a Cease and Desist to Busse for their use of a "Talon hole" which is still just a hole on the blade... The different location would be akin to the technically different name (San Mai vs SAN MAI III)

Get over it... I feel that Lynn is a pompous character that comes across as baffoonish at his best...
 
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I had never heard the term "mall ninja" until i joined this forum, lol. I think a lot of the hate Cold Steel gets is irrational. If anything, they make folders that are made to be used, which seems like the opposite of "mall ninja" to me. I don't think any pm2 owners get called a "couch ninja" for 90% of the knife's life being flipped open and closed repeatedly on the couch. It also seems like the advertising is more important than the blade itself to some, but to each his own. As I've stated before, I find most of CS's knives unappealing. But I really like about a dozen of them and cannot ignore the obvious usefulness and value they exhibit.
 
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Dec 22, 2016
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Right. And round holes have been around since Earth was formed. Anyone who would trademark the term Round Hole as it applies to knives and then legally pursue violators of that trademark must be a really egotistical jerk. Right?
Yes.

But so is a system that permit and grant ownership of common dictionary words; as far as I'm concerned that system is so idiotic that it is broken.
 
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Mitchell Knives

Knifemaker
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Their knives are OK; certainly better than they used to be.

The videos amuse me, so I don't have a problem with them.

However, I don't approve of stealing designs and randomly threatening and suing people.
 
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I dunno, I love the meat cutting vids and the whole crazy uber-tactical mall ninja thing they got going. Maybe it's the 13 year old in me. I wouldn't buy all of it, but some of it I have bought like the 1917 Saber and the big bore blowgun have been fun. I mean..other than your EDC and a CC gun it's all just toys, right? Nobody is gonna EDC a big ol' Natchez Bowie, for example. They're just big boy toys. Thompson is over the top but hey, that's his thing and he does it well. Everything I've ever bought from them has been rock solid, the folders especially, with "bet your life on it" durability. I'm not a huge CS fanboy, just my observation. Just ignore the models that turn you off and try a regular looking one like the Lawman mentioned above, or the Recon. I think you'll find they make a pretty reliable product.
 
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Re: 'holes'.
Holes that have no "opening" purpose, but are superb at locking the blade/s into the hand and retention.

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Like a lot of members here, some of my early entries into knife obsession were by Cold Steel. I still have a old Cold Steel Kuhkri that I have beat the hell out of that is still going strong and a SF Shovel sits in my truck. My opinion started to sour with them when they changed the steel used in Carbon V. I'd had an original SRK that I'd given to a friend and when I went to get a new one, it did not feel the same. When I asked Cold Steel about it, they responded there was no difference between the two. Technically you could say they did not "lie" to me since in truth it was still Carbon V steel. What I did not know is that "Carbon V" is a trademark of Cold Steel's and can be applied to any carbon steel they use. Make an SRK out of 1095, coat it black, stamp Carbon V on it, and Ta-da! it's the same as the original. A lie? No, just misleading. Also around that time there was a big rivalry going on between Cold Steel and their Trailmaster and a newcomer called Busse and their Battle Mistress. Ads by Cold Steel were placed taking shots at Busse and their claims. That year at BLADE Busse finally challenged Cold Steel to back up their claims, but they declined. Then came the time I approached Cold Steel's booth at BLADE with some questions about my old Kuhkri. After years of use, it was finally beyond my ability to sharpen and needed to be re-profiled. The Representatives I was talking to were no flunkies, I'd seen them in Cold Steel's videos. Well before I could finish my explanation, they cut me off saying they would not take the knife back at that time. Told them I understood that, but who do I need to send it in to and what would it cost. Again almost before I could finish, I was told that my kind of use was not covered by their warranty and they were not sure anything could be done. Then they just blew me off to talk to another person there. I left pretty unsatisfied. Calling Cold Steel yielded nothing better from the CS Reps. I've also watched how they made copies of other makers knife designs without any credit given - though always just different enough to avoid legal issues. Most recently you have the lawsuit against CRKT for stating their LAWKs system makes a folder a virtual fixed blade.

And most of that is a copy/paste from around 2009 in a thread on this forum. I'm pretty indifferent about Cold Steel nowadays. I still think Lynn Thompson can be his own worst enemy. The Kuhkri I finally had re-profiled & sharpened by Tom Krein & the SF Shovel now rides in my SUV as the above truck got totaled years ago. I honestly believe if not for Andrew Demko and the Triad Lock, Cold Steel might of been severely diminished as a knife company. About the only thing from them currently drawing my interest is the Finn Wolf.
 

mongomondo

SUPPRESSING FIRE
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Don't let yourself be influenced by advertisements. Y'all are smarter than that. Just evaluate a product based on its own merits. Knives like the Recon 1 and American Lawman are very solid and practical knives. Very strong lock combined with CTS-XHP steel that are beautifully ground. It's really hard to complain about them.
 
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I have never met Lynn, likely never will and if I did, I would highly doubt that we would be BFFs.

I have 2 new Recon 1’s and my Rajah III was delivered today. I absolutely love these knives and will likely buy more assorted CS models.

If I can get a CS XHP bladed Taiwanese knife that is rock solid and well made for under $100 and in BD1 for around $60, I don’t really care if I don’t want to have beers with the owner or watch their meat cutting videos.
 
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Do they pay Spyderco for the Goldeneye? If not, it's gonna piss me off, doing that San Mai stuff, then ripping off the Spydiehole? If they do that, Sal should rip them a new Spydiehole for it. :mad:
:D
Just like Cold Steels (Demko's) "pocket opener" they "invented". I would have zero issues with this except for the fact CS files frivolous lawsuits (San Mai) over trademark infringement, they're just a bunch of hypocrites.
 
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