why do most sellers insist on money orders?

I have also heard from some folks that they don't do Paypal because they are oppossed to Paypal's (or E-bay's, or whatever the ultimate parent company is) contributions in support of gun control. I'm unaware of the accuracy of those complaints (never looked into it), but for some people it seems to be a political thing.
 
Ritt said:
I have also heard from some folks that they don't do Paypal because they are oppossed to Paypal's (or E-bay's, or whatever the ultimate parent company is) contributions in support of gun control. I'm unaware of the accuracy of those complaints (never looked into it), but for some people it seems to be a political thing.
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wow, i never would have considered anything like that.
i guess gun control is a big thing for you guys south of the border... up here weve just kindof gotten used to the fact that we have barely any freedom to own guns.
hell, i wanted to buy a high end air rifle for target shooting and ridding my property of pests like crows, squirrels, chipmunks (sure theyre 'cute', but someone who lives in the city has no idea how many thousands of dollars of damage they can do to your property and crops/land), and also as a non-lethal raccoon deterrent. turns out that in order to get anything decent (>495 FPS) i am going to have to take a firearms safety course and get a firearm 'possession and aquisition' license, whose application also needs to be signed by present and past spouses (lol). how rediculous - anything under 495 FPS will literally bounce off whatever it hits, but if i want to get something more powerful and accurate then the licensing and BS i have to go through will cost me 3x as much as the actual 'weapon'. bah.
it is totally insane - because i can go out and buy any compound bow or crossbow without said license. how much more likely do you think a high-powered crossbow is to kill someone than a 'pellet gun'?

by next spring, however, i will either be living in southern texas or virginia, so i wont have to worry about this crap anymore. there are some great things about canada, but we are certainly less 'free'. i own a large property up north in the middle of nowhere, yet i have to buy a parking pass to park on the road in front of my house - or by the beach which i have deeded access to. i have to buy a 'fire permit' each year just to have a campfire on my own damned property, or cook in my outdoor fireplace, and each time i have to call the municipal office and make sure there isnt a 'fire ban' in effect or theyll have the fire department out here and ill end up paying over $900 in various fees/fines. it would be fine if they had fire bans in logical times, but this year there was one for 2 weeks while the ground was still mostly covered in snow/snowmelt. bah.

cheers,
-gabriel
 
Well look on the brightside, if you move to S. Texas then you won't need
your heavy coat in the winter.

And personaly I like using a Postal money order. There is an air of certainty
to using one. And if it is lost or stolen you can have it replaced like a amex
travelers check. A personal check assumes that you have your checkbook in
balance and the check that you send gets cashed in a timely manner.
 
No way! You need a license for anything over 495 fps!!! In Canada?! I thought there were way more guns in Canada and it was a lot eaier to get them up there? WOW! lern something new everyday. In NYC, it's super difficult and expensive to get a gun and air guns are a no, no. When you''re in TExas you won't have any problems getting a gun.
 
While I do have the above mentioned issues with PayPal, my bigger concern is based on numerous instances of the buyer disputing an item after the seller has shipped, PayPal reversing the ACH that the seller received, and little or no means for the seller to dispute or address the buyers payment reversal, leaving hte seller without item or cash.

If PayPal was to issue a temp credit to the buyer, determine the true nature of the situation, then adjust either the seller or buyer accordingly, without first and immediately deducting from the sellers account, I would consider doing business through them. Since they do not, I will not.
 
I can easily understand that using a P.M.O. is better between borders, but otherwise I usually ship the knife before I get the check/payment. (and it goes the other way around most of the time.)

It really does not matter to me, especially when it is someone that has hung around the online knife communityfor a while. If it someone I have met in person, it even matters less.

Years ago (10 or 15) I used to deal in higher end factory and at times small numbers of hand mades. Did it more for the fun and knowledge than for a profit. Got to make a few friends in this area of the country and even got to meet a few knifemakers at some shows. Took personal checks all the time and never had a problem.

I still look at the knife community with rose colored glasses. Some may rightfully say it is foolish. Thankfully there are still a bunch that wear theirs too. :D
 
paypal is pretty much tied to your name, your address, and CC# and bank account. they also allow only up to a maximum of 4 disputes per year. so it is unlikely that people out there are making a living off of disputed paypal payments.

however a seller - especially one that accepts only MO with no form of recourse - can theoretically cheat hundreds of people a year. its pretty informal too - act the PO around here rarely even asks for ID when cashing a MO, or will accept crap like a library card as ID... which means the person doesnt even have to use his real name.

there is a risk in any transaction that either party wont be satisfied. only accepting MO when you have a paypal account is heaping 110% of the risk on the buyer and assuming none yourself. IMO this is kindof unfair :(

"There is an air of certainty to using one. And if it is lost or stolen you can have it replaced like a amex travelers check."
you can? not around here, i dont think. if i lose it, its gone - and so is all of the money. which is extra risk for the buyer - because if the seller tells you its 'lost in the mail', you are out all of your money.

cheers,
-gabriel
 
fulloflead said:
No. Actually it wasn't.
I go to the post office all the time anyway. I hardly EVER go to the bank.
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Well, that shows how well I can 'read between the lines'......HAHAHA :p
 
As to the original question, I see a PMO like cash. I know for d*mn sure I will ship the knife so I want to know for d*mn sure the money is there when I cash the 'check'. There doesn't seem to me to be any better way to assure that than a PMO. No, I have never been ripped off either, but yes, there are some horror stories out there. Including payment reversals on paypal. If you don't want my knife on my terms (PMO), then don't buy it. Simple as that.
 
As long as you retain the top half of the MO and you signed it then you
can get one replaced. But whoever cashed it will have some serious
questions asked of them by the postal inspectors. Read the back of a
usps money order sometime and you will see what I mean.

You better believe they will investigate who used the MO after they had
to pay you back your money.
 
also, another thing that came to mind:

i used to work in a body shop while i was going to college. my partner was kindof an *sshole, as he would take peoples money and get in over his head and never be able to finish anything on time. he was constantly out messing around and partying when he should have been working.
meanwhile i needed the money and reputation, so i was busting my ass working - sometimes id work on a car all night, catch a couple hours of sleep in a big lincoln, take a shower at work and be off to school in the morning.
the main problem was that he was only concerned about money, so basically the cars he had not been paid for yet were a priority for him. those that he was paid for in advance were pushed to the backburner because he had already gotten what he needed out of them and they were no longer of importance to him. some of those poor buggers would be there every day for several weeks pleading with him to finish their cars because they needed them for work. i ended up finishing many myself, even though our businesses were separate, we just shared the same space.

ive heard this same sortof thing in this exact same forum: people complaining about waiting months, even several years for a knife and never having it delivered. the overwhelming majority of them have paid for it - or paid a large deposit - in advance.

so the problem is that once most sellers receive the money for the item - wether it was delivered or not - the transaction ceases to become important to them. with paypal at least there is the smalll possibility that if the deal goes horribly wrong for the buyer they can appeal to paypal to mediate.
 
SuperD said:
As to the original question, I see a PMO like cash. I know for d*mn sure I will ship the knife so I want to know for d*mn sure the money is there when I cash the 'check'. There doesn't seem to me to be any better way to assure that than a PMO. No, I have never been ripped off either, but yes, there are some horror stories out there. Including payment reversals on paypal. If you don't want my knife on my terms (PMO), then don't buy it. Simple as that.
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i would be more willing to send a cheque and wait 5 days for it to clear than to send a money order. at least with a cheque, i know that the person on the other end has a bank account, and was ID'd thoroughly by the bank when he set it up. i also will get back the check with the seller's signature on it as proof that I paid for the item if ever a dispute occurs. it will also show the date and where it was cashed. the seller cannot cash it and then tell me they never got it, nor is it a big deal if its 'lost in the mail'. i can also write it right here at my desk and drop it in my mailbox for the mailman to pick up as opposed to having to drive 45 min to town, stand in line, and buy a MO.

this is all more than i can say for a postal MO.

also, a postal MO adds nearly $10 to any of my transactions in gas, postage, fees, etc - and that doesnt include my time wasted.
so, for me, on cheaper knives the risk isnt a big factor - but the effort and extra costs are.
on more expensive knives, the extra costs and time isnt such a factor, but the total lack of buyer protection is. hell, i might as well just western union the money over to save time - they both have about the same nonexistant amount of buyer protection.

again, i am biased because 99% of the time i am in the buyer role :)
 
BH,

With all due respect, this is not you buddy's car shop. When you buy and pay for a knife on BF, 99.99% of the time it will be mailed to you in a timely fashion. No mattter what payment you use there is no accounting for the .01%.

Look, either you are comfortable with the way things are done or you are not. If not, buy with a CC on any of the reputable online knife dealers.

Peace
David

Edit: We posted simultaneously I think. Yes, waiting for the check to clear would be a similar option if you are willing to do it.

But really, if you are buying from a reputable member here, is that really necessary?

PSS: With the new clearing rules here in the states it would be like 48hours to clear a check I bet.
 
If you would like it skewed in your favour, go to a reputable dealer and pay their asking retail price, the shipping method of your choice and insure it for the full amount. Then use a credit card. This way if there is a problem you can call the credit card company and dispute the charge.
 
PSSSSSSSSSSSSSS I am thinking a lot of this thread has more to do with trust of the seller that anything to do with payment. I may be wrong, had too much Chivas Regal and what not. But, it is seeming to me that as the thread has developed it is more to do with 'how can you trust the seller'? I mean, if you trust the seller, then their word that a personal check is on the way would be good enough, no?


"NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE, JUST A THOUGHT"
 
What I don't get is that they want POSTAL money orders. As if that would make it easier to get your money back if somebody ripped you off.
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If I am in a position to be picky, I will ONLY accept US Postal money orders. As my credit union is half way across the country and I have to mail any other form of payment to deposit causing a 4-7 day delay. With the US Postal MO I can simply cash it at any local post office. Even Canadian postal money orders can be cashed at a post office here!!

at least with a cheque, i know that the person on the other end has a bank account, and was ID'd thoroughly by the bank when he set it up
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Really?? I can go to staples right now and get a box of blank checks and print out anything you want!!!! Got any customs for sale? :D
 
TheBadGuy said:
Really?? I can go to staples right now and get a box of blank checks and print out anything you want!!!! Got any customs for sale? :D
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and theyll clear too? :)

my point all along has been this:
in most transactions, the buyer is the one taking by far most of the risk - and the first risk. sure if you know someone and have dealt with them before this is never an issue. but if its a total stranger, then you are in essence sending them the money and hoping you get the knife in the mail a week later.
the chance of getting a paypal resolution is small, and at most you can do 4/yr, which isnt going to attract a 'career scammer'. so IMO, its unfair that some sellers who obviously have paypal accounts will begrudge the buyer that small comfort.

i have never been ripped off in a private deal here - in fact ive had nothing but good experiences so far (i hope i didnt just jinx myself - i have 2 knives in the mail to me ATM). but i mostly buy production folders here. if i ever bought something expensive here (to a starving artist like me, expensive is >$100USD), then i would want the security - or perceived security - of a paypal transfer to at least balance the risk between buyer/seller. $100 USD is a lot of money to me.

but perhaps i am missing your points... are you guys saying that paypal tips the risk in favor of the buyer? i think it 'balances' the risk, because in a MO payment the seller assumes no risk at all. in a paypal transfer the seller could just not mail the knife at all, and the buyer may fail to recover the money. there is still risk - and trust necessary - on both sides.
 
There was a thread about trades/sales in this section awhile back. Do you wait for the payment as the seller or send the knife out at the same time as the payment is sent. There was a point brought up that a "sale " is just a "trade" and knife should be sent before receiving the MO/check through the mail.

I don't deal with PP. I have seen a number of forum members that have had problems when dealing with PP.

You always have the option to buy from somewhere else if you dont like the terms the seller is asking.
 
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