Why do my traditional knives get so sharp?

S

Spongebobby

Joined
Oct 11, 2010
Messages
173
I was just wondering why knives like my kinfolks, camp king, and uncle henry pen knife got so much sharper than my modern folders like my benchmade so much easier?
 
my quick guess is----the answer is all in the steel, and manner of sharpening, but there are some real professionals here who can answer the question better than I.
 
Maybe mot modern folders have thicker, less acute edge bevels than the traditional knives.
 
As mentioned, simpler steel (usually carbon steel). The 'modern' knives usually come with more complex alloy steels, which improve some characteristics (strength, corrosion resistance, toughness). But, those same alloying elements also create very hard 'carbides' in the steel, which make it more 'abrasion-resistant'. This means it's harder to damage the steel by scrubbing metal off of it. Which, of course, also means it's much harder to sharpen (by scrubbing metal off of it). It doesn't necessarily mean it can't be just as sharp; it just means it takes more work, and sometimes more 'sophisticated' means, to sharpen.

Most 'traditional' knives also have thinner blades than your average 'modern' folding knives. Thinner blade = less metal to remove when sharpening = easier to make sharp. And you get a 'double-whammy' effect when you make a THICK blade out of very ABRASION RESISTANT steel. I never knew what 'persistence' meant, until I first tried to reprofile a 1/8" thick blade of S30V, to a more acute bevel, with un-powered tools. Took forever. Best steel lesson I've had thus far.
 
Actually, the large carbides of most high alloy steels - including most stainless steel types (not all) - DOES mean that they cannot be sharpened as sharp as the very fine grained old carbon steels (or low alloy tool steels). At best you can only approximate the sharpness in high alloy steels (with great effort), which is very rapidly lost in use. The canonical description is "takes a lousy edge and keeps it forever". IIRC, in razor blade terms, a true razor edge is considered to be about 1 micron thick -- most modern high alloy stainless steels have carbides that are much larger than this.
 
Make that about half a micron, 0.4 or so. That, and being highly polished, makes a razor's edge.

It also depends on what sharpening media you are using. For me, the steels that I find easiest to sharpen freehand are O1, 52100, CPM 3V (yes, really), INFI, AUS 8A, and Buck's 420 HC. Some traditional, some not. All good! Some that require more attention from me are D2, CPM S30V (I hate this steel), and CPM S90V.

Some steels, like O1 and 1095 can be really interesting. Hardened in the 57 - 59 HRC range, they are pretty much what you expect. Take them up to 62 - 65 HRC, and they give most of the "super" steels a real run for their money.
 
thin blade stock, thin or hair thin edges
modern or those you easily find have thicker edges making them slightly less bity

take a #73 gec and a spyderco/benchmade and look at the thickness behind/over the very edge, pretty different
Maxx
 
I remember as a teenager in the 70s I hated my Dad's Buck knife, because you would work all night to sharpen it, when my Case CV could be touched up in no time. At that time I knew nothing about different steels and their properties, now I do! I have a 1x30 belt grinder that I sharpen all my knives with different belts and a leather strop. I don't mind hard steels now, but you can definatly tell a difference. For instance I reprofiled my Queen Country Cousin in D2 tool steel. It is amasing how much harder I have to press against the belt to get a cut, but don't let anyone tell you that D2 won't get shaving sharp! One thing I love about the higher grade stainless steels is that the edge isn't eaten away by corosive action when working in some mediums, butchering for instance. This holds true no matter how hard you take carbon steels. It still amazes me how much meat I can cut with an S30v or D2 blade and still shave with it. I personally wish there where more slip joints offered in the high end steels.
 
My granddad always preferred carbon to stainless, as he felt it took, and held, a better edge. Have to say, my slippies in 1095 can easily get scary sharp.
 
It might not be just a matter of steel...maybe traditionals inspire you more, and boost up your sharpening skills :rolleyes:
Fausto
:cool:
 
I find that tru sharp sometimes gives me problems. I hate s30v with a passion. It is one hard piece of steel. :eek:
 
Spongebobby said:
I was just wondering why knives like my kinfolks, camp king, and uncle henry pen knife got so much sharper than my modern folders like my benchmade so much easier?
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Thinner blade steel. That's the reason I finally sold off all my Spydercos. I just prefer a thinner blade. They're made to cut stuff -- and they do it well.

-- Mark
 
That's part of the beauty of TSJ any body with just a little sharpening skill can keep, or even put an edge on one in the basic steels!
 
Carbon steel is simple stuff which allows it to take a very fine edge easily. Carbon steel seems to be a contest of how little can be added to it, a quest for purity if you like. The only issue is it stains and rusts. Most traditionals aren't uber hard so you need to sharpen regularly. In my opinion, so what, give me a sharp knife any day. Sharpening is not a big chore.
 
I get the same feeling lol i was home sick today so i sharpened my cv case trapper and its as sharp as the devils claws. then i pick try the samething on my benchmade and it leaves me wanting to punch a baby in the face.
 
TheSharpStuff said:
I get the same feeling lol i was home sick today so i sharpened my cv case trapper and its as sharp as the devils claws. then i pick try the samething on my benchmade and it leaves me wanting to punch a baby in the face.
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For one thing, you're fighting not only the stainless vs carbon thing, but the basic design of the two knives are worlds apart. Blade thickness, profile, have a great deal to do with how easy it is to sharpen. The trapper was designed as a cutting tool above all else, for people who worked for a living and really needed a good cutter. The Benchmade is a modern tactical designed for people who do a small fraction of the hard work their grandfathers did, but fantasize about all sorts of things they will really never have to do in the real world. Thick blades and saber grinds make for poor cutting edge geometry.

A lot of your traditional knives came about because of certain jobs people did. Like the cowboys used cattle knives that in the 1880's gave way to the stockman. People used to trap as a living, and needed an effective knife that let them get the hide off a critter in quick time. Freight wagon drivers and horse drawn cab drivers had need of a harness jack to make running repairs in leather harness gear. Early in the 1900's, with the dawn of electricity, came the evolution of the electricians knife. All kinds of traditional pocket knives came about because of the needs of people who were out there doing real work. And those people had little patience for tools that didn't work right, like knives that didn't cut well. And a century ago, people knew what a good knife was. And that knife had better have a nice thin blade.

I've always found it passing strange, that in modern day, when more people are working in an office cubicle environment, that they need a lightning fast opening one hand thick bladed knife.

Carl.
 
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