Why do my traditional knives get so sharp?

[mdsmith]

For one thing, you're fighting not only the stainless vs carbon thing, but the basic design of the two knives are worlds apart. Blade thickness, profile, have a great deal to do with how easy it is to sharpen. The trapper was designed as a cutting tool above all else, for people who worked for a living and really needed a good cutter. The Benchmade is a modern tactical designed for people who do a small fraction of the hard work their grandfathers did, but fantasize about all sorts of things they will really never have to do in the real world. Thick blades and saber grinds make for poor cutting edge geometry.

A lot of your traditional knives came about because of certain jobs people did. Like the cowboys used cattle knives that in the 1880's gave way to the stockman. People used to trap as a living, and needed an effective knife that let them get the hide off a critter in quick time. Freight wagon drivers and horse drawn cab drivers had need of a harness jack to make running repairs in leather harness gear. Early in the 1900's, with the dawn of electricity, came the evolution of the electricians knife. All kinds of traditional pocket knives came about because of the needs of people who were out there doing real work. And those people had little patience for tools that didn't work right, like knives that didn't cut well. And a century ago, people knew what a good knife was. And that knife had better have a nice thin blade.

I've always found it passing strange, that in modern day, when more people are working in an office cubicle environment, that they need a lightning fast opening one hand thick bladed knife.

Carl.

Tell it like it is Carl.

 

[pinnah]

For one thing, you're fighting not only the stainless vs carbon thing, but the basic design of the two knives are worlds apart. Blade thickness, profile, have a great deal to do with how easy it is to sharpen. The trapper was designed as a cutting tool above all else, for people who worked for a living and really needed a good cutter.
(Lots of good stuff cut for brevity....)
I've always found it passing strange, that in modern day, when more people are working in an office cubicle environment, that they need a lightning fast opening one hand thick bladed knife.

Agree with everything in the above and only add 2 additional comments.

First, I think the modern era allows or even encourages people to not maintain their equipment. This is a general observation that ranges from home appliances, cars, motorcycles (see: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance) and very much so... knives. I hear a lot of people talk to me about how they judge the quality of a knife almost exclusively by how long it will hold its edge. When pushed, I almost always find this is related to their inability or unwillingness to sharpen a knife. For them, a stainless super steel that holds an edge for a long time (whatever that means) outweighs any other concern compared including how good of an edge it takes to begin with. I'm coming to see the current world as splitting up into two groups. Those who are willing to maintain their stuff and those who are happy to treat stuff like as being disposable. Two essays I've found helpful in thinking about this is "The Story of Stuff" and "Shop Class as Soulcraft". Heck, even an idiot like me can use a $25 Lansky sharpener to put a decent edge on a carbon blade and even then I feel like I'm cheating. Still, I am maintaining my stuff and there's a huge amount of satisfaction in that.

Second point and speaking as somebody from the cubicle farm... There *is* justification for carrying some sort of knife for day to day life, I think and that is consumer packaging of all sorts. But admittedly, this is a far cry from a stockman, or a teamster or a sail rigger's real, no-kidding constant use of a knife in a work context. It just doesn't compare. In fact, just about any knife will handle the suburban, cubicle farm jungle's cutting needs. I think the implication of this is that there is enough of a need to a knife to drive some demand but since the actual cutting requirements are so low, we consumers are free to pursue our choices largely based on various fashion fetishes. My *need* for a stockman is as unrelated to my actual work as my office mate's *need* for a modern tactical folder. Both will handle the hard plastic bubble wrap around that new USB memory stick and the occasionally tough bag of Doritos. And both make us happy in terms of fashion but in different ways. For lack of a better phrase, this fashion issue is a double edged sword. I really dislike modern tacticals but have to admit that my love for traditional knives is no more or less based in some, I dunno fashion preference. It's not like I'm working French farmer. I just prefer my Opinel. Or my small lock back Schrade. They make me happy to carry and if somebody gets similar happiness from a tactical, I can live with that.

 

[richard j]

i had some 440 c stainless carving knives sent to me for sharpening. i made 5 blanks from some 1/8" 1075 and put an edge on them. the 440 c blades sharpened up ok but the 5 blades i made were quite a bit sharper. i almost cut myself testing 3 that i finished up today on some stubble on the back of my hand. one was taking some skin along with the stubble.

 

[thatotherguy]

jackknife and pinnah- All hail the kings of functionality, bustin through the hype in one fell swoop!

 

[sodak]

I really wish we could get production traditionals with better steels. For examply, opinels and saks probably have among the best geometry you'll find, but the steels are sadly lacking. They do the job, certainly, but I for one would love to have an opinel with M2 at around 65 HRC. It would be EXTREMELY easy to sharpen, that's a function of geometry, not steel.

I find a lot of modern steels much easier to sharpen than more traditional steels due to very little burr forming, and a geometry that takes advantage of that particular steel's properties. I have a couple of custom knives in the above mentioned M2, their edge lasts a very long time, and they sharpen up freehand in under a minute, easily. I've also got some other knives, some professionally thinned, with a bunch of modern steels in the 64 - 67 HRC range, and I go from "safe to drag across your palm" dull to hair-splitting sharp in under a minute as well.

The thing is, if you go thin enough, you can get incredible performance and easy sharpening, and still plenty tough for cutting jobs (if you use a knife properly). But to get that performance, you have to have a steel strong enough to be able to support that thin edge, and in order to get that strength, you have to get it much harder than most knife companies are willing to go. It's really a shame, once you try one of these knives, you'd be amazed how well they cut and how easy they are to maintain.

The opinel would be a perfect candidate.

 

[db]

Make that about half a micron, 0.4 or so. That, and being highly polished, makes a razor's edge.

It also depends on what sharpening media you are using. For me, the steels that I find easiest to sharpen freehand are O1, 52100, CPM 3V (yes, really), INFI, AUS 8A, and Buck's 420 HC. Some traditional, some not. All good! Some that require more attention from me are D2, CPM S30V (I hate this steel), and CPM S90V.

Some steels, like O1 and 1095 can be really interesting. Hardened in the 57 - 59 HRC range, they are pretty much what you expect. Take them up to 62 - 65 HRC, and they give most of the "super" steels a real run for their money.

Yup hard O1 is some real good stuff. That is how Maddog knives got so popular for awile. I'd also really like to see a slipjoint with a hard M2 blade. Rather than an Opinel my Vic Cadet would be my choice. Even better a complete lineup of slipjoints in a hard m2 would be the best.