Why do the edges on production knives suck so bad?

retzius

retzius

Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
1,102
Seriously...

My last two knives have had some crap edges.

Ontario Rat-1 - edge was a whopping 60 degree inclusive, uneven, with a huge bur one one side only

Ritter RSK II - edge was uneven from heel to tip so the grind symmetry was way off, grind looks like it was done on a 50 grit belt

If the primary purpose of a knife is to cut, you'd think that the edge would get a little more care than the techno blade finish, the high tech handle material, and all the other features that DONT HELP IT CUT!

I swear it looks like the edge is put on at the last step by some guy with a 50 grit belt sander for a whopping 30 seconds per knife.

It's ridiculous, for the cost of some of these knives, that I have to reprofile, make symmetrical, and refine almost every knife.

Knife Manufacturers please step it up!

Thanks :)
 
I think you may be having some bad luck. I have had some knives that maybe had a bit of a wavy grind line, but only one of my knives has came dull all the other have been very sharp.
 
I wouldn't worry .Once the knife is yours you can sharpen it any way you want. You do know how to sharpen don't you ? Edges do wear so you'll have to sharpen it occassionally anyway.
 
I cannot speak to the quality of Ontario knives, I don't own one nor do I have any interest in them. As for the Benchmade knives that is a 60 degree bevel slapped on all their knives. Some are sharper than others. You kind of answered your own question though. Mass produced knives are exactly that - mass produced. That is about the amount of time taken to sharpen a knife 5-10 seconds per side on a belt.

mete said:
I wouldn't worry .Once the knife is yours you can sharpen it any way you want. You do know how to sharpen don't you ? Edges do wear so you'll have to sharpen it occassionally anyway.
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Not mass produced safe queens. ;)
 
mete said:
I wouldn't worry .Once the knife is yours you can sharpen it any way you want. You do know how to sharpen don't you ? Edges do wear so you'll have to sharpen it occassionally anyway.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I have to reprofile, correct the symmetry, and then sharpen almost every knife I receive.

To me, thats a pretty bad sign of the level of QC in an industry.

Imagine if every car you bought had a crap engine and all the effort was put into the interior and the response of the dealer when you brought it back was "Once the car is yours you can fix it any way you want. You do know how to fix a car dont you? Engines break so youll have to fix it occasionally anyway."

To be clear, the only knife company, so far, that I havnt had an issue with is Spyderco. It seems like they put some effort into their production knives.
 
I hear Spyderco really does get it right more often than the others. I've had about 50/50 with most of my mass-produced knives and it bothers me to have to re-profile as well.

I have no evidence for this statement, but it almost seems to me like there is some sort of disconnect between the people that "idea" a knife up, make sure it's produced, check out the prototype and "ok" it, and then, the guy at the end of the line who grinds the edge before tossing it in a box.
 
Maybe because the edges are probably being ground by someone who is being paid a few quarters above minimum wage. They work in a sweltering hot factory next to machines that could take their fingers off.

Maybe they are paid a few extra cents per knife that they can grind--leading them to rush to grind as many as they can.

Manufacturing anything - even knives - usually isn't the most glamorous job for the people on the plant floor.
 
i get a lot of brand new brand name knives sent to me that have an edge on them that looks like a monkey did it :D.

as others mentioned above, spyderco has a good record for sharp knives out of the box. kershaw knives come pretty sharp but i have seen a few that needed some help.
 
Like anything that is mass produced there will be some variations from knife to knife when it comes to the bevels since they are done by hand.
 
Before carrying a new knife, I pretty much always rebevel it to 30° inclusive on my Edge Pro and then put a mirror finish on it. So a knife that's dull out of the box doesn't bother me much. Uneven factory edges are a bit more of a nuisance, since with the Edge Pro maintaining a constant angle it becomes very apparent when one side of the factory edge is, for example, ground at 30° and the other at 15° (not inclusive).
 
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retzius said:
Seriously...

My last two knives have had some crap edges.

Ontario Rat-1 - edge was a whopping 60 degree inclusive, uneven, with a huge bur one one side only

Ritter RSK II - edge was uneven from heel to tip so the grind symmetry was way off, grind looks like it was done on a 50 grit belt

If the primary purpose of a knife is to cut, you'd think that the edge would get a little more care than the techno blade finish, the high tech handle material, and all the other features that DONT HELP IT CUT!

I swear it looks like the edge is put on at the last step by some guy with a 50 grit belt sander for a whopping 30 seconds per knife.

It's ridiculous, for the cost of some of these knives, that I have to reprofile, make symmetrical, and refine almost every knife.

Knife Manufacturers please step it up!

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

This is why there are custom knife makers, as well as professional sharpeners. Until everything is done by robots, it's not going to be perfect every time. Such is life.

What do you use to sharpen? What angle do you use? Do you think that a 'quality" factory edge is going to be close to matching your finished edge? Chances are, you're going to completely change the edge anyway when YOU sharpen it.

Why don't you volunteer to work in a factory for $8 an hour sharpening knives by hand on a belt sander and meeting a daily quota? Let us check out your edges at the end of a 10 hour day and see how they look. :thumbup::rolleyes:
 
cramsey3006 said:
This is why there are custom knife makers, as well as professional sharpeners. Until everything is done by robots, it's not going to be perfect every time. Such is life.

What do you use to sharpen? What angle do you use? Do you think that a 'quality" factory edge is going to be close to matching your finished edge? Chances are, you're going to completely change the edge anyway when YOU sharpen it.

Why don't you volunteer to work in a factory for $8 an hour sharpening knives by hand on a belt sander and meeting a daily quota? Let us check out your edges at the end of a 10 hour day and see how they look. :thumbup::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

not that i disagree with you completely, but this has become a good excuse in america anyways. low wage pay and the job is hard excuse. last time i looked no job paid all that much relative to the workload/stress, and for that matter was all that easy. if you have one please show me where, so i can join in the fun? in a 100 or 150 or 200+ buck production knife the edge should be sharp out of the box and the bevels done right and even. i agree with the original poster.....production or not, the edge should be sharp and the bevels even, consistently...not 50% or 80% or even 90% of the time. sure on an imported from china 25 dollar knife, expect wrong most times and fix on your own, but in made in america stuff and bigger dollars, production or not....they need to get at it closer to right more often than not. just my opinion and obviously ymmv.
 
retzius said:
Like I said, I have to reprofile, correct the symmetry, and then sharpen almost every knife I receive.

To me, thats a pretty bad sign of the level of QC in an industry.

Imagine if every car you bought had a crap engine and all the effort was put into the interior and the response of the dealer when you brought it back was "Once the car is yours you can fix it any way you want. You do know how to fix a car dont you? Engines break so youll have to fix it occasionally anyway."

To be clear, the only knife company, so far, that I havnt had an issue with is Spyderco. It seems like they put some effort into their production knives.
Click to expand...

Bad analogy. A car with a bad engine is non-functional unless extensive repairs are done. A knife with a bad edge is probably still functional, and certainly so once you sharpen it. Sharpening a knife is normal, expected maintenance you will have to do over the life of the knife if you use it.

A better analogy is why does my car come without a full tank of gas. Well - it does. Fill it up and move on with your life. How much did you pay for the RAT-1 (with an edge that requires maintenance now)? How much would you pay for a comparable Spyderco (with an edge that will require maintenance eventually)?


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Beckerhead #42
 
In my experience Cold Steel and Spyderco are flawless in this respect. Benchmade almost, as is Kershaw. Boker is pretty good. Surprisingly, I've had quite a few Busse's that had a less than satisfactory edge on it, although the last two were shaving sharp. Buck varies wildly. Leatherman is good. Gerber sucks.
Of other brands I have too few knives (less than three) to form an opinion.
 
GingivitisKahn said:
Bad analogy. A car with a bad engine is non-functional unless extensive repairs are done. A knife with a bad edge is probably still functional, and certainly so once you sharpen it. Sharpening a knife is normal, expected maintenance you will have to do over the life of the knife if you use it.

A better analogy is why does my car come without a full tank of gas. Well - it does. Fill it up and move on with your life. How much did you pay for the RAT-1 (with an edge that requires maintenance now)? How much would you pay for a comparable Spyderco (with an edge that will require maintenance eventually)?


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Beckerhead #42
Click to expand...

Bad analogy. A knife without an edge is non-functional. Its no longer a knife, its a pry bar. Any knife should come sharp with a functional edge, maintenance is expected, but NO product should come that way.
 
as far as the rat 1 goes, that is a low cost knife that has decent materials and construction, and so the fit and finish is not going to be the best. we can not expect it and we can not be angry about it when it happens. besides, a 60 degree angle is less likely to chip than a very thin angle, afaik.
 
jbmonkey said:
not that i disagree with you completely, but this has become a good excuse in america anyways. low wage pay and the job is hard excuse. last time i looked no job paid all that much relative to the workload/stress, and for that matter was all that easy. if you have one please show me where, so i can join in the fun? in a 100 or 150 or 200+ buck production knife the edge should be sharp out of the box and the bevels done right and even. i agree with the original poster.....production or not, the edge should be sharp and the bevels even, consistently...not 50% or 80% or even 90% of the time. sure on an imported from china 25 dollar knife, expect wrong most times and fix on your own, but in made in america stuff and bigger dollars, production or not....they need to get at it closer to right more often than not. just my opinion and obviously ymmv.
Click to expand...

Ok...you paid what, $30 for the RAT? What if they gave you the option of buying one with a perfect mirror edge (that takes a lot more time to produce), but it cost $60? Would you buy the $30 one or the $60 one? Same thing with the Ritter. Spend what you did on it, or spend an extra $50 (arbitrary figure) for a perfect edge. What would you do?

Getting that perfect edge takes time and would add considerably to the cost. I'm going to say that 90% of the people wouldn't spend the extra money.
 
These days, whenever I get a new knife, I check it for any obvious flaw in the edge (not that there usually are), try it out a little, then take a big sigh and just start reprofiling it to get it up to my standards. I'm not the most OCD guy out there but there are very few factory edges that I consider satisfactory in terms of consistency, acuteness or sharpness.

So there is much truth in the old saying.. if you want something done right, best to do it yourself.

Sometimes there is an exception and that does make me one happy panda indeed.
 
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