Why do the edges on production knives suck so bad?

retzius said:
Bad analogy. A knife without an edge is non-functional. Its no longer a knife, its a pry bar. Any knife should come sharp with a functional edge, maintenance is expected, but NO product should come that way.
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I agree the knife should come with a decent edge but give me a break. Sharpen the thing and it's perfectly functional. Why all the angst?

I'm not defending mediocrity but to expect a hundred dollar edge on a thirty dollar knife is silly. Sometimes maybe you'll get that but sheesh - the whining, man. The whining.

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Beckerhead #42
 
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mete said:
I wouldn't worry .Once the knife is yours you can sharpen it any way you want. You do know how to sharpen don't you ? Edges do wear so you'll have to sharpen it occassionally anyway.
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I really loathe this attitude. Unless you're an infallible authority on every single appliance and consumer product you've ever bought-- which exactly no one on earth is-- you have no place to get smarmy with someone for not knowing how to care for one single product they own.
 
Appletz said:
I really loathe this attitude. Unless you're an infallible authority on every single appliance and consumer product you've ever bought-- which exactly no one on earth is-- you have no place to get smarmy with someone for not knowing how to care for one single product they own.
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Sure you do...if you know how to maintain that thing.;)
But seriously, whining about sharpening?
Oh my GOD, did you know that you have to fill the tank of the car with gas sometimes?
Sometimes you even have to change the tires!
If you can't sharpen a knife, what the bloody hell are you doing with one?
 
GingivitisKahn said:
I agree the knife should come with a decent edge but give me a break. Sharpen the thing and it's perfectly functional. Why all the angst?

I'm not defending mediocrity but to expect a hundred dollar edge on a thirty dollar knife is silly. Sometimes maybe you'll get that but sheesh - the whining, man. The whining.

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Beckerhead #42
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Amen! If I want perfection or as close as I can get, then I will pay for it. I'll buy a custom made knife.
 
I've bought some high priced blades that have come dull, I don't mind sharpening at all, but when the price exceeds $200 and it won't cut paper it pisses me off quite bad. It actually should be embarrassing to the maker of the product, especially when you've ordered 4 of the same model and all 4 acted the same. Months earlier the same model was very decent, and price was the same.. So quality control is an issue and I understand the OP, very well...
 
LOL! I agree, it's all junk. That's why you should always turn to your trusted custom knifemaker.

That was funny, great post ^ 5
 
Appletz said:
I really loathe this attitude. Unless you're an infallible authority on every single appliance and consumer product you've ever bought-- which exactly no one on earth is-- you have no place to get smarmy with someone for not knowing how to care for one single product they own.
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Normally I would agree with you, but mete is a special case. He knows steel more than you might imagine. Just sayin'
stabman said:
Sure you do...if you know how to maintain that thing.;)
But seriously, whining about sharpening?
Oh my GOD, did you know that you have to fill the tank of the car with gas sometimes?
Sometimes you even have to change the tires!
If you can't sharpen a knife, what the bloody hell are you doing with one?
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Let's not forget the undies ;)
 
Bad Boy Productions said:
LOL! I agree, it's all junk. That's why you should always turn to your trusted custom knifemaker.

That was funny, great post ^ 5
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Yeah it was funny, but so true. :)

At least with a custom maker we know who worked on it so we can expect it to be right, or as close as they can make it anyway.

Production knives are what they are and always will be.

If the edge isn't right, sharpen it and stop whining, it's not a big deal...
 
RevDevil said:
Normally I would agree with you, but mete is a special case. He knows steel more than you might imagine. Just sayin'
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stabman said:
Sure you do...if you know how to maintain that thing.;)
But seriously, whining about sharpening?
Oh my GOD, did you know that you have to fill the tank of the car with gas sometimes?
Sometimes you even have to change the tires!
If you can't sharpen a knife, what the bloody hell are you doing with one?
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Perhaps my reply was overly emotional; I'll own that. I just really dislike condescension, especially when you have the knowledge and experience to just as easily help someone. I'd make an exception if the OP was being willfully ignorant ("why won't my knife stay sharp forever!"), but he isn't-- he's making a valid observation about sloppy factory profiles and out-of-box sharpness. It's valid because if this stuff didn't matter, people wouldn't be giving props to Spyderco in every single thread for their edge QC. It clearly matters. There's also a lot more skill and finesse involved with getting a really nice knife edge than there is with filling a gas tank or changing a tire (unless you're in NASCAR), so I don't think that is a fair comparison (I know that's my invitation to a bunch of "I can get a mirror edge on any knife with a 60-cent whetstone from REI in 4 seconds" replies, so have at it). Despite that, I understand where you are coming from.
 
In some cases, I'd love to buy a production knife with no bevel on it. I could then have at it and create the best working angle for me - without the need to worry about removing excess metal. For some reason, they won't sell them that way, believe me I've asked a few times. Also, for the record, I think many people have an overall strong apprehension towards sharpening or learning how to sharpen. The reaction is typically visceral. Like taking a brand new Land Rover into the boonies and giving it hell. Most people would want to treat that vehicle like the old Corvette in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. While some knives are purchased as safe queens, most production knives are fine to use because more could be purchased. Just my thoughts, no harm intended; we're all friends here. :)
 
Very expensive hiking boots still come with a cheap pair of insoles. They assume that you will buy something on par with their quality, but actually fit you. If they sold them an expensive pair of insoles, then I'd pay more for the boots, and still turn around and have to replace them.

Anyone that plays electric guitar knows that production guitars are not set up very well. You can find 10 of the exact guitar, machined by computer, but they're are vast differences in the action, intonation, and playability. They know that everyone is different, and will set it up for themselves. So, why should they pay someone to do the correct set-up?

My point is, cash is king. What can you expect from a massive production company, with inexpensive knives? I have many Ontario's, and have had to correct some edges.
If I want a better grind I'll pick one out by hand, order an ESEE or go full on custom. I like Case, but my newest stockman had burrs on all the edges, I quickly fixed the edges and moved on. I prefer to have the skill than have it done for me.
 
My case rudger gunstock just arrived yesterday. Not only the finishing is bad, the edge is blunt as well. Ok, maybe not blunt... but it can't shave. Although for that price, any coldsteel/spyderco/benchmade/kershaw/buck has a much better edge. Anyway, i got my case to hair popping sharpness with the trimaker :)
If you invest in a decent sharpener, i guess u wouldn't worry much about a knife's edge.
 
If you want something done properly - do it youself.
So I did not quite understand what it is all about - untill receintly. Well just bought Buck Vantage with the edge really badly screwed up. Resharpening not a problem as such. It is a pity they have tried to sharpen it at the factory in the first place - so much of metal has been eaten by the belt making the edge quite thick...
But the interesting part is that the price for the knife at the Walmart was just 25 dollars. I wander at what price the plant sells it? How much? Twenty for a knife? Or fifteen?
People just keep complayning about QC. Quality Control nether ever solves anything. The key is the process. If the sharpening is done manually using some contraption involving fast turning coarse stones or belts - well... Getting better and more consistent results takes more time, requires more skills - more people with more skills. And doing it all the day through day after day and month after month - is probably not the kind of job many of you would choose.
 
GingivitisKahn said:
Bad analogy. A car with a bad engine is non-functional unless extensive repairs are done. A knife with a bad edge is probably still functional, and certainly so once you sharpen it. Sharpening a knife is normal, expected maintenance you will have to do over the life of the knife if you use it.

A better analogy is why does my car come without a full tank of gas. Well - it does. Fill it up and move on with your life. How much did you pay for the RAT-1 (with an edge that requires maintenance now)? How much would you pay for a comparable Spyderco (with an edge that will require maintenance eventually)?


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Beckerhead #42
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SOrry have to disagree with you. It was a perfect analogy. A bad car with a bad engine needs to be fixed. So it will either cost you time if you are mechanically inclined or money if you are not. A knife with a bad edge is the same. Its worthless. A dull knife doesnt cut. If that needs to be proved ill be glad to do a vid of me running my thumb on my POS griptillian that just arrived dull as episode of american idol:) It requires being fixed. A new item should function to begin with at least once. when my Griptillian comes so dull it cant cut paper or functionally slice a tomatoe (we know how stressfull that is on a knife :) ) then yes I agree with the OP. Spyderco has hit 100% for me with edges including "cheap" china line and Well made Taiwan knives... QC at BM, and Ontario sucks... I have both companies knives. IT SUCKS. A cheap condor machete comes sharper then a Ontario Machete that again costs more, hell it doesnt even have a real edge.
 
Poez said:
If you want something done properly - do it youself.
So I did not quite understand what it is all about - untill receintly. Well just bought Buck Vantage with the edge really badly screwed up. Resharpening not a problem as such. It is a pity they have tried to sharpen it at the factory in the first place - so much of metal has been eaten by the belt making the edge quite thick...
But the interesting part is that the price for the knife at the Walmart was just 25 dollars. I wander at what price the plant sells it? How much? Twenty for a knife? Or fifteen?
People just keep complayning about QC. Quality Control nether ever solves anything. The key is the process. If the sharpening is done manually using some contraption involving fast turning coarse stones or belts - well... Getting better and more consistent results takes more time, requires more skills - more people with more skills. And doing it all the day through day after day and month after month - is probably not the kind of job many of you would choose.
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QC doesnt solve anything??? Really? Hey employee we noticed your work isnt as good as the others... shape up or ship out. Yeah QC doesnt work:) Every company needs QC, including the one i own. I take pride in our employees but it took a while and alot of QC and followup on my employees.
 
Seconding what philwar said: CS and Speyderco know sharp. Europeans sell knives unsharpened arguing that it would be like selling a loaded gun.
 
Every Spyderco, Kershaw or Cold Steel that I have owned has had a great edge right out of the box.

As others have said, factory knives are a mass produced assembly line product. Edge quality will always vary.
 
Poez said:
If you want something done just the way you want it - do it youself.
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Fixed it. I have to say I've never bought a knife from a reputable maker/manufacturer that came so dull it couldn't be used. I did rebevel nearly every one of them because they are not the way I want. Bevel angles creep up because people do dumb things with knives. There are a lot of people out there that don't know how to use a knife, and the factories probably got tired of trying to keep up with the fixes. I've seen some uneven bevels, and this is somewhat irritating, but the one that comes to mind was a $25 knife, so I'm ok with it. If it will cut paper and catch a few hairs out of the box, I'm ok. I haven't bought a knife in years that wasn't at least capable of shaving some hair off my arm.
 
me2 said:
Fixed it. I have to say I've never bought a knife from a reputable maker/manufacturer that came so dull it couldn't be used. I did rebevel nearly every one of them because they are not the way I want. Bevel angles creep up because people do dumb things with knives. There are a lot of people out there that don't know how to use a knife, and the factories probably got tired of trying to keep up with the fixes. I've seen some uneven bevels, and this is somewhat irritating, but the one that comes to mind was a $25 knife, so I'm ok with it. If it will cut paper and catch a few hairs out of the box, I'm ok. I haven't bought a knife in years that wasn't at least capable of shaving some hair off my arm.
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That's why most production blades are around 40 - 46 Degrees inclusive and also why most of them aren't ground thin, even with the hollow ground blades.
 
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