Why do you hate Assisted Opening?

I'm okay with a/o's - I've only had Kershaws and they've proven to be dependable, plus nice and fast. I like manual flippers and of course the a/o flipper T 0301. :)
 
I don't care for AO knives at all. To me it is like cruise control in the car: an interesting device, but I prefer to drive the car myself, even on long trips. When I had cars that came with this feature, I never used it.

In the same way I prefer to open my knife myself. I don't know or care if it's faster, but I like performing the action itself of opening my own knife.

I also don't like a knife where I have to release to release a safety lock first. Thi is, to me, an unnecessary, unneeded step.
 
As far as assited knives I have both and like them both based on the individual knife. On another note about people being scared......
I love the fact that I live in a gun/knife friendly state but more than that most of the people are gun/knife friendly..In my local post office you can use pretty much any knife you wanted to open your mail and none would even look twice. They may ask to borrow though.
 
There's two sides to this imo. Most people wear their blades strictly as a tool so self-defense purposes rarely or never seriously come into play. In terms of self-defense it's also a lousy option compared to the pepper spray and guns some of you enjoy in the US and other select countries. For these people opening mechanisms in different configurations aren't as important as the tactile feel, pleasure, quality and appearance of the knife. And understandably so. I used to be one of those people and when I picked my knives I pictured the self-defense scenario way down the list of priorities and in a situation where I would comfortably pull my knife, flick it open all fancy like and go "Come on you scoundrels, you'll never take me alive!". ;)

However. I'm one of the unlucky few who's in lack of better options actually had to deploy my knife in a situation where I was being cut, stabbed and beaten repeatedly by a gang of youths who wanted to rob me/"have a bit of fun" (long story short I ended up in a coma and still can't grip things properly with my left hand). I could list everything that went wrong when trying to get my "well known knifemakers" thumb stud manual blade to open, but it's a substantial list and most people would think I was lying because the amount of Murphy's Law was so ridiculous it couldn't have been worse if I'd dropped it on my foot and skipped around crying like something straight out of a slapstick comedy. And I'm well above average in flicking and have seen my share of fisticuffs. In general I'm not a panicky person. Or at least I thought I wasn't.


Following this incident I only go for either assisted openings or a big handled thumb disc or spyder hole that I can open firmly clutching the knife with the palm of my hand in a controlled fashion. Simply put - if you can't picture yourself opening it with blood on your hands and in your eyes, with some dude violently pulling your jacket and his mates stabbing and kicking you as you're being pinned against a wall standing on your knees with enough time and space to make a semi-conscious decision whether you should protect your face from a cut or your temple from a kick... then you haven't pictured a realistic scenario where you would grab for your knife without being the aggressor. If someone gives you the old prison rush and lands on top of you with a $10 knife in his hand, you will be much better off with a rock than a shiny manual folder with a tiny thumb stud sitting in your pocket or laying on the ground with your finger tip in it...


So to answer the question, "why do people hate assisted openings?". One reason would be different usage, and one would be a lack of understanding of exactly how much assistance you will need in a tight spot. :o
 
Truth be told, I think that's simply a design issue with thumbstuds rather than anything to do with assisted opening at all. It would take some dexterity and precision to hook your thumb beneath the stud and flick it open. It would take considerably less "grace" to push on a blade protrusion with your index finger. Frankly, it would take more force to push an A/O thumbstud knife open than a manual, though that could depend on the knife itself. I think Benchmade knives are easier to open manually(like the 581 Barrage or 890 Torrent), though I could see the ZT 0551 being easier to open with A/O.

Still, I wouldn't want my daily use folder to be the "assistance" I'll need in a tight spot(particularly if said folder is a $700 knife). I'd prefer to have a nice sturdy fixed blade on me, or at least a wave opening folder. Which is why I carry a Delica Wave and Izula for that very purpose.
 
swegeek, sorry to hear about the attack on your person and hope you recuperate okay. Is there a reason you can't carry a gun, it's much more effective for self defense.
 
bladebertt said:
swegeek, sorry to hear about the attack on your person and hope you recuperate okay. Is there a reason you can't carry a gun, it's much more effective for self defense.
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He used the word "fisticuffs", so I would assume he's from somewhere in England, which makes the very concept of owning a gun a complete joke. Though if that's the case, I would expect that owning a folder is only slightly less difficult, and actually using it against another person would almost certainly earn one a grilled cheese sammich for life, justified self-defense or not.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Truth be told, I think that's simply a design issue with thumbstuds rather than anything to do with assisted opening at all. It would take some dexterity and precision to hook your thumb beneath the stud and flick it open. It would take considerably less "grace" to push on a blade protrusion with your index finger. Frankly, it would take more force to push an A/O thumbstud knife open than a manual, though that could depend on the knife itself. I think Benchmade knives are easier to open manually(like the 581 Barrage or 890 Torrent), though I could see the ZT 0551 being easier to open with A/O.
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Yes and yes. Fine motor skills is what really gets you though, or the lack thereof (you don't notice that you use them until you lose them). The bottom line is that you place your fingers to accomodate for the flicking and it's impossible to do any of that when you're being thrown around and bashed from all directions. My final try was a pathetic attempt to get it open by grabbing the knife and clumsily trying to get it to cooperate without flicking it, which is a really hard thing to do (much harder than one imagines) when your cerebellum is effectively running the show and your stupid muscle memory is dead set on flicking it after a couple of thousand times doing so, and I was promptly rewarded by being slammed up against the wall and getting my middle finger wedged between the handle and the blade. The one positive about it in fact, was that it lacked any closing force so it gently skipped away out of sight unnoticed (in hindsight it could have been a lot worse if they'd found a knife next to my sleeping body). It literally went "Sorry, too much for me" and fled the scene, leaving a huge gash in MY finger. :)

Noctis3880 said:
Still, I wouldn't want my daily use folder to be the "assistance" I'll need in a tight spot(particularly if said folder is a $700 knife). I'd prefer to have a nice sturdy fixed blade on me, or at least a wave opening folder. Which is why I carry a Delica Wave and Izula for that very purpose.
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Fixed blades rock if you can carry them but waves are ho-hum in my book. I mean, would you really trust them to do the job in any given situation? Lets say you're a cop a wrestling a perp over your gun with one arm free to draw your knife... could you still do it? Speaking from personal experience and how many times I lost the grip on my knife from a sudden bump or hit trying to pull it out of my pocket, odds are that I would have gotten it half way open only to have it pushed deep into my thigh (with a possible bleed out with a bit of bad luck). These are the sort of things that happens in any scrappy fight, so there's no reason to think it wouldn't in a fight where you would need a knife? Plus, if there's space enough for you to wave it open, there's probably space enough to leave them standing in a cloud of dust with you doing your best Roadrunner imitation on your way out of Dodge?

I do like waved knives as a secondary carry for my EDC as they're fun to play with without being overly intimidating to people, but I wouldn't bet my life on them in a motivated self-defense situation and would prefer something a bit more sturdy and palm friendly than a Delica if push came to shove. If I had to pick one and wasn't scared it would bite me in the leg in a wrestling match, I would feel more comfortable with a zip tie modded Millie as it's big and ergonomic enough to safely stay in your hand if the wave isn't working for you. The opening momentum of the knife is such, for my hands at least, that I can grip it firmly while steadily opening it with my thumb without having to rearrange my grip or work my way around a corner like you for instance do on the Emerson CQC-8. If my girlfriend can open it first try without looking stupid, then maybe it wont screw me in must have moment......................

bladebertt said:
swegeek, sorry to hear about the attack on your person and hope you recuperate okay.
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Cheers mate. It's been nearly 10 years so it's more of a compelling story than a tragedy these days, I got some scars and my left hand and arm has some nerve damage but other than that I'm fine. And facial scars impresses the ladies, so I wouldn't want it undone. :foot:

bladebertt said:
Is there a reason you can't carry a gun, it's much more effective for self defense.
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I live in sweden so can't carry unfortunately - if I could I would and I would also feel safer knowing ordinary decent people did as well. There were absolutely no lack of friendly bystanders willing to help once the kids was done with me, but if I had a choice I would naturally have prefered it if someone had offered some preventive not-so-friendly "helping" with a cocked semi-auto and a "leave no prisoners" attitude. :cool:

Dumb gun laws: :thumbdn:
 
I'm able to deploy a waved folder in VERY tight spaces without a problem. Just twist the knife in your pocket before drawing so the spine faces away from your body and pull. This causes it to deploy against the outside lip of your pocket, rather than the corner, and so will deploy regardless of where it's clipped on the pocket. The tension of the fabric also makes the blade deploy easily, and without the need for exaggerated motion. :):thumbup:
 
swegeek - sorry to hear about the stomping. I've taken one in my distant youth and am fine today. Living in the streets of many of our big US cities as a young man during my stint in the USMC and post - USMC years, I have had many encounters that included gun play, knives etc..

You're sure right that everything us keyboard operators discuss goes right out the window when you've got 3 or more dope crazy youths in front of you bent on throwing you a beating, robbery etc..

You make a good case for carrying a fixed blade. You also make a good case for carrying a hand gun. It's just not worth what you went through if you don't have to and that may include bending some laws. I carried fixed blades in cooler, jacket-wearing weather as well as a pistol - ALWAYS - in the streets of some huge cities where I lived and traveled using the bus lines, subway or even walking home from work or play.

My mindset, although illegal, was "scr*w it, I'm not going to get killed because I can't get a permit!"

CCW permits are easier to obtain in the US now more than ever and I advocate the right of citizens to bear arms.

My days of behaving like this was a lifetime ago for most of you that might scan my post, so if you can remember anything from it is this. Arm yourself to the full extent of the law, even if that means a good hardcore walking stick (they inflict an incredible mount of damage if used properly) and most importantly keep your head on a swivel. I've avoided more trouble by staying alert to dangerous situations and either avoiding the problem areas where they occur completely and using whatever I have on me or can spot as a weapon. Yes your folder was useless but deployed immediately not after the fighting started may have helped. A fixed blade like an Eskabar, Street Beat, RC-3 would be my ticket. I'm a strong advocate of "being first" then let the chips fall where they may.

My friend was jumped by some young, tough punks several years ago and as they attempted to make their move he picked up a large chunk of rock (about a 1/2 a brick to be exact) and lunged at the loudest talking punk and slammed it into his shoulder, effectively breaking the bones in this jerk's shoulder. Attack survived.

Even with all of this said, anyone can take a beating, no matter how tough or how aware you are so there's no foolproof deterrents for some people. In many cases running like the devil and possibly finding an open store or a shop with items to throw or a manager to make a phone call, may be your only recourse to slugging it out and almost being killed.

Be well brother, I hope you have a complete and speedy recovery! :)
 
I prefer simple practical design , no A/O no any kind of ball bearings etc ...
nothing beats good old manual folder , send , rust , dirt , it still works and you know it will work .
 
I'll say I LOVE assisted openers. In my case, Kershaw Blur and Emerson Karambit (if the wave counts).

Why? Rheumatoid arthritis.
 
LondonBridges said:
I'll say I LOVE assisted openers. In my case, Kershaw Blur and Emerson Karambit (if the wave counts).

Why? Rheumatoid arthritis.
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I've been eyeballing the waved Emerson Karambit. They are awfully pricey. Do you think thye're worth the cash? Is the build quality there?

Anyone else please feel free to comment too plz. :)
 
For my situation, yes it's worth it. I'm physically limited with what I can operate and the ring hole gives me a lot of flexibility in deployment and in handling. As far as build quality, I have yet to really utilize it (it is a karambit), but the spec sheet and reputation would lead me to believe it could take some abuse.

That being said, I am selling it to get a CQC-7 Karambit (tanto snubby). Mine looks waaaaaay too menacing for my work environment and the blade shape offers little EDC purpose. Lmk if you're interested.
 
I dislike A/O knives mainly because I prefer as few moving parts in my knives as possible A/O is just one more thing to go wrong or wear out IMO, also a lot of modern "flippers" open just as fast and in nearly the same manner with 0 extra parts.
 
LondonBridges said:
For my situation, yes it's worth it. I'm physically limited with what I can operate and the ring hole gives me a lot of flexibility in deployment and in handling. As far as build quality, I have yet to really utilize it (it is a karambit), but the spec sheet and reputation would lead me to believe it could take some abuse.

That being said, I am selling it to get a CQC-7 Karambit (tanto snubby). Mine looks waaaaaay too menacing for my work environment and the blade shape offers little EDC purpose. Lmk if you're interested.
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That isn't even a Karambit technically but it does look less manacing. :)
 
LondonBridges said:
Imagine opening an interoffice envelope and an admin walking in like OMG BECKY.
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Yep, that full blown, waved karambit is a wicked looking blade. I love watching YouTube vids of trained experts using them in 2 man drills or simulated attack and defend scenarios. Too bad you have let it go! :mad:
 
Knives are too cheap for me to be too picky. AO knives are fun and practical for me to use so I buy and use them. Manual flippers and manual opening knives are fine, too, but I don't just buy them because I am scared of who might be offended. I guess I'm just a "vulgar" American. ;)
 
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