Why does every one hate 440c stainless steel so much ?

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King of the Cheese said:
With all the advancements in steel composition, 440C is practically junk. I’m sorry, but it is. S30V is highly affordable and outside of some cheap Chinese knives and traditional knives making it a point not to change anything about their construction, it is largely extinct. I’m sure wool coats served Soldiers well in battles hundreds of years ago, but there is a reason they have moisture-wicking technology and extreme cold weather clothing etc now. “Ease of sharpening” and “ease of replacement” shouldn’t be a factor in 440C vs 154cm/VG-10/S30V due to a heavily saturated market with the stuff, advancements in sharpening technology, and reduced cost differences.
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I am sorry you feel that way.

S30v stock is more expensive than 440c/n695. Its using far more expensive technology to make it, and is harder to grind and heat treat properly. So cost is certainly a factor for the end user.

Your argument regarding soldiers in battle is a logically fallacious argument called an "appeal to extremes".

This is mostly irrelevant though because you are changing the goalposts here. Your comment was about 440c in comparison to Magnacut not vg10/154cm/etc. And the price difference as well as ease of sharpening is significant when comparing 440c to Magnacut. Sharpening ease is especially important to those in the field if you get a bad chip or roll that requires diamond cards and time to remove.

Even with any advancement in sharpening technology, it doesn't change the fact that Magnacut would take longer to put a workable edge back on a blade using the same equipment, and that if the blade was damaged or lost it would be significantly higher dollar of a loss.
 
Elektroslag said:
I am sorry you feel that way.

S30v stock is more expensive than 440c/n695. Its using far more expensive technology to make it, and is harder to grind and heat treat properly. So cost is certainly a factor for the end user.

Your argument regarding soldiers in battle is a logically fallacious argument called an "appeal to extremes".

This is mostly irrelevant though because you are changing the goalposts here. Your comment was about 440c in comparison to Magnacut not vg10/154cm/etc. And the price difference as well as ease of sharpening is significant when comparing 440c to Magnacut. Sharpening ease is especially important to those in the field if you get a bad chip or roll that requires diamond cards and time to remove.

Even with any advancement in sharpening technology, it doesn't change the fact that Magnacut would take longer to put a workable edge back on a blade using the same equipment.
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You can’t dismiss my analogy for wool coats because wool is still highly useful today. If you’re clinging to old technology and comparing pros and cons, it’s valid. 440c isn’t widely used today for a reason and it can’t be discounted as profitability and marketing.
 
If I want a pot I would made it out of 18/10 steel.
If someone decide to make an EDC knife out of this steel I would not call the steel rubish but I would call that person an absolute idiot.
 
King of the Cheese said:
You can’t dismiss my analogy for wool coats because wool is still highly useful today. If you’re clinging to old technology and comparing pros and cons, it’s valid. 440c isn’t widely used today for a reason and it can’t be discounted as profitability and marketing.
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Suit yourself, still was a logically fallacious statement made previously. 440c/n695 however is VERY widely used today. Bohler N695 is very popular in fixed blades especially.
 
King of the Cheese said:
You can’t dismiss my analogy for wool coats because wool is still highly useful today. If you’re clinging to old technology and comparing pros and cons, it’s valid. 440c isn’t widely used today for a reason and it can’t be discounted as profitability and marketing.
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I had my 2 BUCK Custom Shop 110's built with S30V steel...
But they were one-offs for me and my kid.
Just because technology marches on: it doesn't mean that "old school" is junk.
 
Elektroslag said:
Suit yourself, still was a logically fallacious statement made previously. 440c/n695 however is VERY widely used today. Bohler N695 is very popular in fixed blades especially.
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You aren’t understanding. WOOL is still “widely used” today.. doesn’t mean it’s the most practical or ideal material. I’m not arguing that it “isn’t used” either, not sure how you assumed that. I’m saying that in comparison to other options, it’s poor.
 
Bob Denman said:
I had my 2 BUCK Custom Shop 110's built with S30V steel...
But they were one-offs for me and my kid.
Just because technology marches on: it doesn't mean that "old school" is junk.
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It is “junk” in my opinion. With a menu of so many better options, it’s practically last on the list.

Look how many pocket knives BHQ has under 440C. So much for “widely used”:

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Gramps is wise. There is something to be said for 440c for those who have a bunch of older sharpening stuff. Why replace all that with one new knife?
 
Elektroslag said:
At no point did I say that. You falsely extrapolated it from my comment.

I stated it's pretty common.
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How is that relevant to the point I’m making? Most people don’t carry magnacut knives.. doesn’t mean that availability and capability are correlated. A lot of people drive Toyota Camrys. Doesn’t mean they’re “better” than a Mercedes.
 
King of the Cheese said:
How is that relevant to the point I’m making? Most people don’t carry magnacut knives.. doesn’t mean that availability and capability are correlated. A lot of people drive Toyota Camrys. Doesn’t mean they’re “better” than a Mercedes.
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tacoma is the best though, right?......

I like 440c if its actually 440c and heat treated properly.
 
King of the Cheese said:
How is that relevant to the point I’m making? Most people don’t carry magnacut knives.. doesn’t mean that availability and capability are correlated. A lot of people drive Toyota Camrys. Doesn’t mean they’re “better” than a Mercedes.
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You brought it up in the first place...

(that 440c isn't widely used today, and that I assumed you meant it wasn't used)

So you tell me...You are basically piggybacking strawman arguments now and I am not sure why. The only thing I am disagreeing with (as the rest is opinion) is that 440c isnt widely used. I think looking at new knives sold you would be surprised how many are 440c and it's equivalents. In fact I just got a Spanish Joker fixed blade in n695 because it was the only option they had.
 
Elektroslag said:
You brought it up in the first place...

(that 440c isn't widely used today, and that I assumed you meant it wasn't used)

So you tell me...You are basically piggybacking strawman arguments now and I am not sure why. The only thing I am disagreeing with (as the rest is opinion) is that 440c isnt widely used. I think looking at new knives sold you would be surprised how many are 440c and it's equivalents. In fact I just got a Spanish Joker fixed blade in n695 because it was the only option they had.
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If 440c is so “widely used”, why does one of the largest knife distributors only carry 11 pieces in it under the “pocket knife” category?

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Lol at a lot of this. I hate S30V. Sure it's got good edge retention, but every knife I've owned with it has had chipping or micro-chipping issues. I don't care if it has great edge retention if I'm constantly sharpening chips from it. I only have two knives left with it, and plan on reblading both.

Magnacut is the new hotness, yet for folders I don't get it. It sounds ideal for fixed blades though. I've already been seeing it run at less than ideal hardness.

It seems like many of the PM steels are not heat treated correctly, especially the Italians and Chinese. What good is paying extra for M390/20CV/204p when it's run at 58-59 HRC?

I'd rather have an excellently treated average steel than poorly treated super steel. Civivi's 9cr hits way above its belt because of how well the do the treatment.

I've had M390 etc from many manufacturers, and by far the best is my Cheburkov. Holds an edge yet cuts plastic straps without chipping or rolling. It's a thin flat grind.

It seems some companies are afraid of unable to get their steel at the appropriate hardness. I recently saw a Fantoni HB03 in S125V run at 61 HRC. My Biryukov is at 64. Big difference.

I'm at the point where unless it's from a maker/company that I know will treat it correctly, I don't want the latest wonder steel.
 
King of the Cheese said:
If 440c is so “widely used”, why does one of the largest knife distributors only carry 11 pieces in it under the “pocket knife” category?

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Mostly because you cherry picked the data. You didn't include n695 which is identical (and really widelynseen in fixed blades) and didn't include 440 which has over 800 results. Numerous 440c blades are simply listed as 440 with no a/b/c designation, however are indeed 440c.
 
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