Why does every one hate 440c stainless steel so much ?

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Way, way back, in the Dark Ages before color TV, when you had to walk across the room to switch to the other channel (providing there was more than one), I used to pore over the Herter's Outdoorsman's Catalogue. Among the thousands of items listed was a stag handled hunting knife in (gasp!) the best miracle steel of all times, 440C. Never got one, though, as my lawn mowing money wasn't enough to cover the cost. My first experience with 440C was a nifty Buck Ranger, which was a terrible chore to sharpen (on carborundum, which was all I had), and I eventually wore that knife down by over-sharpening. My buddy had a Buck 105 in the same steel (I think); it was a challenge to sharpen, too. Probably still a good steel though, but there are so many other better choices today I'd never want another knife in 440C.
 
Edjr said:
I think the bad press comes from people buying cheaper brands that have sub par heat treat. If you get 440c from Older Benchmade or Boker you'll find that it's still a good option especially for folding knives. I think now especially since everyone wants super steels the steels from yesterday are being offered at great prices and it pays to not be a steel snob. Blade geometry,design, heat treatment and ergos are more important than what kind of steel it is especially value for the money
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Alberta Ed said:
Way, way back, in the Dark Ages before color TV, when you had to walk across the room to switch to the other channel (providing there was more than one), I used to pore over the Herter's Outdoorsman's Catalogue. Among the thousands of items listed was a stag handled hunting knife in (gasp!) the best miracle steel of all times, 440C. Never got one, though, as my lawn mowing money wasn't enough to cover the cost. My first experience with 440C was a nifty Buck Ranger, which was a terrible chore to sharpen (on carborundum, which was all I had), and I eventually wore that knife down by over-sharpening. My buddy had a Buck 105 in the same steel (I think); it was a challenge to sharpen, too. Probably still a good steel though, but there are so many other better choices today I'd never want another knife in 440C.
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Way back in the Dark Ages, like when this thread was last active?
 
Kit Carson made my first custom knife in the 90's with 420V. (S90V nowadays.)

Kit loved 440C. That's all you need to know.

R.I.P. my good friend. You'll never be forgotten.

(And apparently, neither will this thread.)
 
I feel like I've had a few Gerbers in 440c. Wasn't a fan of how they took to sharpening.
 
Sam Wilson said:
This is a fact.




Sam⚔️⚔️
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Sure, but only if you qualify it with "most" users. I went through college with the same chef's knife -- 1095 that I never sharpened. I stopped using it years later only because the wood handle fell off. I wouldn't have known the difference if it were 440C, other than for the patina.

But any reasonably competent user today can certainly tell 440C from the super steels. The top steels give total cuts under rigorous, well-controlled tests of 800 to 1,000 or more. 440C is a bit more than 400.

I have a well heat treated 440C chef's knife that I love for the ergos, but it gets dull too fast. So I had a chef's knife made to similar dimensions, but in Vanax SC. The Vanax blade is much better -- easily noticeable. Plus, Vanax is much tougher than 440C -- more than twice as tough at the same Rc, according to Bohler -- so I had the blade made thinner, giving it even more of a performance boost.
 
He said "most," and that is what I quoted and replied to. Still stands.

Additionally, there are many other factors than steel in side by side comparisons, so a much better steel doesn't necessarily mean a thing.

Sam⚔️⚔️

Twindog said:
Sure, but only if you qualify it with "most" users. I went through college with the same chef's knife -- 1095 that I never sharpened. I stopped using it years later only because the wood handle fell off. I wouldn't have known the difference if it were 440C, other than for the patina.

But any reasonably competent user today can certainly tell 440C from the super steels. The top steels give total cuts under rigorous, well-controlled tests of 800 to 1,000 or more. 440C is a bit more than 400.

I have a well heat treated 440C chef's knife that I love for the ergos, but it gets dull too fast. So I had a chef's knife made to similar dimensions, but in Vanax SC. The Vanax blade is much better -- easily noticeable. Plus, Vanax is much tougher than 440C -- more than twice as tough at the same Rc, according to Bohler -- so I had the blade made thinner, giving it even more of a performance boost.
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I own a relatively new 7 inch blade in n695 and is ground relatively thin (convex and around 60hrc) and its been absolutely BLASTED through lots of knot filled Sand Live Oak which is incredible dense hard wood. Not a single chip or roll. Very impressed with what this class of steel can do.
 
Brules1 said:
I have said this MANY times. I've been using/collecting knives for over 50 years.
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Chop through a concrete block with your 440C blade and then do the same with a CPK chopper in D3V. You'll see a difference.

Cut cardboard boxes with a Rex 121 blade with the same geometry as your 440C blade. You'll see a difference.

You can make a decent knife out of 440C, but there have been a lot of steel advances since 440C. I can't think of a single application where I would prefer 440C over some other steel.
 
Twindog said:
Chop through a concrete block with your 440C blade and then do the same with a CPK chopper in D3V. You'll see a difference.

Cut cardboard boxes with a Rex 121 blade with the same geometry as your 440C blade. You'll see a difference.

You can make a decent knife out of 440C, but there have been a lot of steel advances since 440C. I can't think of a single application where I would prefer 440C over some other steel.
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Cardboard boxes tell all.
 
Twindog said:
Chop through a concrete block with your 440C blade and then do the same with a CPK chopper in D3V. You'll see a difference.

Cut cardboard boxes with a Rex 121 blade with the same geometry as your 440C blade. You'll see a difference.

You can make a decent knife out of 440C, but there have been a lot of steel advances since 440C. I can't think of a single application where I would prefer 440C over some other steel.
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You just picked two extremes though...he is saying most users for most tasks wouldn't be able to tell the difference blind. I would reckon thats pretty accurate.

Idk about you but Im not chopping through concrete or using rex 121 to cut miles of cardboard on a regular basis.
 
In a big candy store there are many choices, this alone makes 440c take the backseat, for preference sake
 
The Mastiff said:
I honestly don't care for 440C. It's my least favorite steel in fact. It all started when I was young and still poor and tried thinning 440C on a soft Arkansas. It defied me. It laughed at me. :) So, I hold grudges.

Now I own almost every type of sharpening material in the world and have most common cutlery steels laying around to play with it sure enough doesn't defy me. I still remain unimpressed though. It's been surpassed in every way by stain resistant steels. It doesn't take a great edge. It's not as tough...in fact it's probably one of the least tough modern stainless. It does the rust resistance thing really well admittedly.

Still, I'll stay with my preferred tool steels & high speed steels. About the only stainless I really carry is my Endura in VG10. Now though I can carry a Super Blue Endura though so even VG10 , which I do respect, isn't really needed any more. :)

And no, 440C was never a "super" steel. That began with 154cm/ATS 34, then 440V/S60, ZDP, etc., .... I do prefer a clean 440A ( or aus 6) to 440C. Better grain, tougher edges, etc. BTW , most chinese knives aren't real 440A or C. They are what they are and some are fine but they sure aren't the 440's I know and used a large part of my life.
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Agreed, nothing wrong with 440A. I have a 60T Old Timer from the 90s or early aughts (made in USA) with 440A and it is very cool, first knife I have reprofilled a tip on. No complaints here, seems like a well balanced and well treated steel. Never had any AUS-6. I have a Chinese BudK tanto advertised as that. But I doubt that it is that.
 
440C is a fantastic steel and the miracle steel of its day. It is very rust resistant and can polish up like a beautiful deep mirror finish and stay that way for a long time. There were 4 negative associated with it at the time.

1) When the Rambo knife tactical craze hit, most people were pursuaded by makers to want either a non-reflective finished or a painted (coated) blade, it was a boon to makers, so the fully polished thing started to fade.

2) Due to the massive popularity of the steel, just about every form of cheap imported flea market junk was marked “440” which confused an entire generation of younger users.

3) At high levels of polish the blades tended to show any kind of scratch, defect, or smudge from a mile away.

4) This was the steel to have during the 60-70s when the knife making renaissance erupted. It was more difficult to heat treat properly, and some of the new makers ended up with knives that were more brittle they should have been.

n2s
 
I remember ~20 years ago going to flea markets down in Florida while visiting a buddy and there were tons of garbage knockoff and no name knives there, most of them labeled "440C, some just "440." Even at 24 I knew it wasn't what it said. I think it gets a bad rap because even today we see a lot of this "440C" cheap imported stuff.

When I was 17 I bought my first one hand opener, a Sog Pentagon Elite. Took me a bit to get the liner lock down, but it had ATS-34 marked on the blade. I asked the sales guy what that meant, and he explained it was a new "wonder" steel.

I loved the steeel, it was amazing compared to me Wenger SAK and Case lockback. I used the hell out of that knife at work, breaking down boxes. I didn't know how to sharpen, and my dad said his stone didn't work on it. Luckily my neighbor was a machinist and would sharpen it for me, usually if I helped him with some project he was working on.

So impressed by that knife was I that several years later I bought another SOG in ATS-34, a mini X-RAY Vision. Still have it somewhere.

I'm not good at sharpening. I can maintain an edge and bring it back fairly well, but honestly I'm terrified to try any major stuff, which is why I like high edge retention steels, the time between really sharp and needing a touch up is longer.
 
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