Why doesn't anyone make knives that compete with Cold Steel?

[RevDevil]

The Manix 2 is often misrepresented as hard use, or even as a defensive weapon(I've seen that done repeatedly at the Spyderco forum)which it very definitely is not, yet it does incorporate that almost paper thin tip doesn't it? Spyderco clearly intended this knife to be percieved of as a weapon, the tip thin to facilitate piercing. I can also dredge up countless advertisments billboarding it's locking mechanism as hard use, which is dubious, at best! For light duty utility it's generally fine, though even there it can be of questionable utility as in my experience that too thin tip is often left behind somewhere along the cutting trail.

How can you be sure what the knife was intended for? Surely not every knife with a thin tip should be categorized as a weapon first and a cutting tool second.

spydercos are for slicing cheese,making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and food prep.

cold steels are for everyday hard use and self defense.

 

[res1cue]

spydercos are for slicing cheese,making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and food prep.

cold steels are for everyday hard use and self defense.

Wow!! Maybe the most polarizing post I have seen, on multiple levels.

But in response to some previous posts regarding bm, zt, and emerson, I think the OP was talking with an emphasis on price point. Sure we all know those Other companies make excellent harduse and timeproven designs, but at 1/3 the cost, CS definitely has its own niche with no competitors I can think of. Just like spyderco has its own niche of high quality slicers.

 

[gundude73]

Not sure what the OP's price ceiling is but check out the strider SMF. its a tough knife.

 

[res1cue]

The Manix 2 is often misrepresented as hard use, or even as a defensive weapon(I've seen that done repeatedly at the Spyderco forum)which it very definitely is not, yet it does incorporate that almost paper thin tip doesn't it? Spyderco clearly intended this knife to be percieved of as a weapon, the tip thin to facilitate piercing. I can also dredge up countless advertisments billboarding it's locking mechanism as hard use, which is dubious, at best! For light duty utility it's generally fine, though even there it can be of questionable utility as in my experience that too thin tip is often left behind somewhere along the cutting trail.

There is a thread in practac where a guy successfully defended himself with one. It may not be your style and it isnt mine either, but I respect a thoughtfully made design that I have used and abused without any problems.

It is ugly thoug

 

[michaelm466]

ZT 300 3.75"

ZT 200 4"

BM 275 3.8"

BM 610 4.25"

Spyderco Manix XL 3.88" (upgraded BBL lock since the previous manix test on these forums in which the lock failed)

BM 760 4"

Hogue EX01 4"

BM 810 3.98"

Also many of these have tougher steel than AUS-8, and from what I've seen, the blade is much more likely to break than the lock from "hard use"
There are plenty more if you drop down into the 3.5-3.75" category as well, such as the Gayle Bradley which actually has a thicker liner lock than the 200, and the 200 is no slouch in beefiness, yet has a shorter blade, which means 20lbs of force on the tip of a 3.4 inch blade is less force on the pivot bar/lock than 20lbs of force on the point of a 4" blade.

 

[Cynic2701]

Oh hey, it's this thread again. I wonder if, this time around, I'll finally find out what "hard use" actually is.

spydercos are for slicing cheese,making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and food prep.

cold steels are for everyday hard use and self defense.

If I was looking for a knife that I could defend myself with, statistics point me towards machetes and kitchen knives. Are you telling me you carry a machete or a Chef's knife around with you all the time?

The Manix 2 is often misrepresented as hard use, or even as a defensive weapon(I've seen that done repeatedly at the Spyderco forum)which it very definitely is not, yet it does incorporate that almost paper thin tip doesn't it? Spyderco clearly intended this knife to be percieved of as a weapon, the tip thin to facilitate piercing. I can also dredge up countless advertisments billboarding it's locking mechanism as hard use, which is dubious, at best! For light duty utility it's generally fine, though even there it can be of questionable utility as in my experience that too thin tip is often left behind somewhere along the cutting trail.

I don't own a Manix 2, but I do own a couple Militaries and Sebenza's that apparently count only as "light use" knives. So far the only time I've "left a tip behind along the cutting trail" was when I dropped my Sebenza off a roof tip first onto a concrete sidewalk--and it only blunted, it didn't snap off. Are you telling me that if I had had a Cold Steel knife the tip would have been unscathed?

To the OP:

Give a FFG Spyderco Endura a try. Unless you spend most of your time prying paint cans open, I doubt you'll miss the Recon 1.

 

[res1cue]

There are plenty more if you drop down into the 3.5-3.75" category as well.

I see 230 dollars, 120 dollars, 120 dollars, rare/discontinued, 100+, 100+, 100+

Compared to 50-60 dollars. Different niche

 

[ono724]

Well, that gets us into the topic of what constitutes hard use. For me - since its a knife and not a crow bar - hard use entails cutting and slicing. For others, the term might include prying open manhole covers and trunk lids. But thats not just hard use, its abuse.

Either way, the Manix 2 can hardly be properly characterized as "delicate." JMO. :thumbup:

+1 There's a big difference between reading a review and actually using the knife. My Manix has held up quite well to heavy use. 'course, I didn't try prying that man-hole cover either

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

The Manix 2 is often misrepresented as hard use, or even as a defensive weapon(I've seen that done repeatedly at the Spyderco forum)which it very definitely is not, yet it does incorporate that almost paper thin tip doesn't it? Spyderco clearly intended this knife to be percieved of as a weapon, the tip thin to facilitate piercing. I can also dredge up countless advertisments billboarding it's locking mechanism as hard use, which is dubious, at best! For light duty utility it's generally fine, though even there it can be of questionable utility as in my experience that too thin tip is often left behind somewhere along the cutting trail.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen a video made recently of the Manix 2 lock being tested? I know there are plenty of videos out there where the locks failed, but AFAIK those were made from earlier knives, and according to the Spyderco rep I talked to when I bought mine (direct from the factory), they've since fixed that problem, and the lock can now support over 1000 pounds of direct pressure without failing. I've only done spine whack tests on mine, but I haven't been able to make it fail yet. Haven't tried anything really crazy.

As for it not being a defensive weapon, well, a pencil can be a defensive weapon. I think it's got to be the height of stupidity to say that a knife of any sort isn't a defensive weapon. It's poky, it's got a nice wide blade which is going to leave a nice big hole in whatever you stab, it's plenty slicy, and in short, it could easily handle most self-defense scenarios any normal person might get into.

 

[Planterz]

spydercos are for slicing cheese,making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and food prep.


cold steels are for everyday hard use and self defense.

I don't know about that. The one Cold Steel knife I have fails every spine whack test I do, and doesn't deploy very rapidly in self defense situations.

It works pretty good for food prep though.

 

[Finarfin]

I don't own a Manix 2, but I do own a couple Militaries and Sebenza's that apparently count only as "light use" knives. So far the only time I've "left a tip behind along the cutting trail" was when I dropped my Sebenza off a roof tip first onto a concrete sidewalk--and it only blunted, it didn't snap off. Are you telling me that if I had had a Cold Steel knife the tip would have been unscathed?

Comparing the functionality of the paper thin Manix 2 tip to those of a Cold Steel American Lawman, or Recon1 Tanto, is certain to end in failure for the Spyderco.

 

[monger4142]

The only thing cold steel excels in is the strength of their lock. the rest is just average quality and below average materials. you're buying marketing hype in the end really. any well built strong lock isn't going to let you down. why do you need your knife to hang 500 pounds in the wrong direction anyway?

 

[Planterz]

Comparing the functionality of the paper thin Manix 2 tip to those of a Cold Steel American Lawman, or Recon1 Tanto, is certain to end in failure for the Spyderco.

Next time I'm attacked by an angry car hood, I'll be sure not to reach for my Spydercos.

 

[michaelm466]

I see 230 dollars, 120 dollars, 120 dollars, rare/discontinued, 100+, 100+, 100+

Compared to 50-60 dollars. Different niche

Didn't read where the OP specified a price point, however IMO, the step up in quality and materials is worth it. Also I'm more familiar with knives in these price points because I prefer quality over quantity, I couldn't tell you the model name of most CRKTs, Cold steels, Gerbers, or SRM's.

 

[opgenorf]

Cold Steel A+++ in my book. But it does not hold a candle to a reeve if you can find one at a reasonable price.

 

[michaelm466]

The only thing cold steel excels in is the strength of their lock. the rest is just average quality and below average materials. you're buying marketing hype in the end really. any well built strong lock isn't going to let you down. why do you need your knife to hang 500 pounds in the wrong direction anyway?

+1 on this, they do have very strong locks, and I would love to see these locks in a BM, Spyderco, or Zt to try it out, however, I would buy the CS if they stepped up their steel, designs (maybe not so black/ninja/tactical), and CS/warranty (haven't heard good things).

 

[Cynic2701]

Comparing the functionality of the paper thin Manix 2 tip to those of a Cold Steel American Lawman, or Recon1 Tanto, is certain to end in failure for the Spyderco.

But that's not what I asked. I compared a Sebenza's tip to a Cold Steel's tip, and asked if it would have ended up any differently when dropped off a roof tip first onto concrete.

I don't own a Manix 2--which is why I can't make a comparison.

 

[Finarfin]

As for it not being a defensive weapon, well, a pencil can be a defensive weapon. I think it's got to be the height of stupidity to say that a knife of any sort isn't a defensive weapon. It's poky, it's got a nice wide blade which is going to leave a nice big hole in whatever you stab, it's plenty slicy, and in short, it could easily handle most self-defense scenarios any normal person might get into

Certainly, anything can be made into a weapon, however I'm not about to bet my life on the Manix 2 as one, I've seen that lock fail, you're in a pile of the deep stuff, if you happen to lose a pair of fingers due to the collapse of that blade in a life or death encounter...

 

[Stelth]

I don't know about that. The one Cold Steel knife I have fails every spine whack test I do, and doesn't deploy very rapidly in self defense situations.

It works pretty good for food prep though.

Well played!

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Actually, as it turns out, I was wrong. The lock can indeed fail a spine whack test. I clamped my standard one in a vise and went to town on it with a tonfa, and it failed that test. Actually, it failed quite miserably. I inspected the knife, and the ball bearing has actually come loose from the lock, preventing the knife from closing sometimes. Also, it now has some blade wobble. I grant you, I pounded on the knife fairly hard. But the axis lock knife I tested in a similar fashion didn't have a lock failure (the handle broke, but the lock was fine).

Seems that Spyderco rep didn't really know what he was talking about. I can say I won't be touting the lock as being anywhere close to as strong as an AXIS, which means it's not even close to a Triad lock.