Why Doesn't BUCK Grow Beyond 420HC?

C

Confederate

Joined
Sep 5, 2005
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I got my new Cabela's catalog today and saw some of Buck's new offerings. They have some beautiful (and expensive) knives out, with very attractive handles and blade shapes and styles. But in the end, regardless of how many hundreds of dollars the knives may go for, the same 420HC Buck flagship steel is used, and it's getting a bit tiresome.

Why doesn't Buck use premium steel in its premium knives??? No matter what sort of a decorative handle a Buck Vanguard may have, or how nicely etched a blade or how beautiful the turquoise is in a handle, it still gets back to the blade, doesn't it? And we all know Buck is adept in making S30V steels, so why wouldn't they use them in these gorgeous knives they offer for the...ummm...big BUCK$?

I love the Buck designs, the chipflint blades, the Gen-5 skinners and many of their other limited edition knives, but frankly, I feel that 420HC is getting a bit long in the tooth. What's your take?

Buck%20Chipflint%20Kalinga%20401LE.jpg


This Buck Kalinga sells for $500. So why is the blade only 420HC?
 
They may be available for special issues here and there, but Buck is far from using S30V in its premium knives. Also, as I said, 420HC is just getting a bit old. It's not a great steel to begin with and now that newer and better steels are available, resist corrosion and are easy to sharpen, why doesn't Buck upgrade? Spending four to six hundred bucks for a knife (or more) and getting it with 420HC is just a bit disgraceful.

I'm not saying 420HC is crap steel by any means, but it's certainly quite a ways from the top.
 
Ya got me with the title.

Back on ignore you go.
 
Probably because they buy steel in enormous amounts. Also, with 420HC, they've got ease of blanking, machining, heat treat and so forth down cold. People still buy their wares with a passion. Sooo, why change?
 
misque said:
People still buy their wares with a passion. Sooo, why change?
Click to expand...

Bottom line. Look how many very successful lines use AUS-8. As long as they keep selling a steel they find easy to work with, they aren't going to raise prices on good customers for the sake of the glitz.

Just as Buck has learned how to do 420HC well, so have their customers, we know how to sharpen it in the field. Go to S30V or D2, and you'll get complaints from the majority of buyers.
 
The Buck Mayo folder is in S30V steel.Some of the Buck Striders were ATS-34 I believe.
 
Have you ever had problems with Bucks 420HC? Before you criticize, tell us how 420HC let you down.

I haven't had any problems. Sharpens good and holds a decent edge. Doesn't chip. You can leave your knife out in the rain for a month and it won't rust to hell. Buck stocks spare blades, unlike spyderco, and you can get one replaced if you do screw it up.

Buck listens to its customers. In the past when they have switched steel or moved to their Edge2000 they explained what they did. Buck uses the 420HC because they believe it has the best combination of properties for their applications. As Esav said, Buck used to use 440C at a high hardness in the 110. People preferred a less hard steel because it was easy to sharpen. People prefer a Buck 110 at a $40 price point. In a nutshell, that's why it is a good steel.

Buck makes a lot of knives in many steels. You can get a 110 in a variety of steels. You can get an S30V Hartsook for $24. You can even get damscus.

That Kalinga is expensive, because of all the obvious hand work, premium handle materials, special blade treatment and the fact it is a "collectible". You should know that by now.
 
Confederate,

Has it ever occurred to you that these are(knife you pictured and described) produced by Buck are more aimed at the collector market than for actual use? The collector's make up the bulk of the buying public in today's market. Collectors typically also have larger income brackets. Therefore, from a business standpoint an already proven decent working steel like 420HC is perfectly acceptable.
 
I guess Buck abides by the old saying " If it aint broke, don't fix it ".

But, like you Confererate, I would love to see Buck move up to some premium steels like S30V and VG-10, which I think hold an keener edge longer than 420HC.
 
I'd guess people on BF are some of only people in the world who think wow they should change their steel because its boring.

I have knives in all sorts of fancy steels... 420hc has never let me down.

Why should they change it?

I cant think of a reason they'd change it on that collectors piece you showed...
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Go to S30V or D2, and you'll get complaints from the majority of buyers.
Click to expand...
Do you really think so? Okay, D2 is notoriously difficult to sharpen at times compared to other steels, and the 420HC makes sense when a knife is selling for thirty to sixty dollars. AUS8 works well for a lot of people, but look at the prices they go for! You can get five- and six-inch blades for well under a hundred bucks. But to spend a lot of money on an AUS8 knife would be nearly as bad.

To spend several hundred dollars on a decent knife, I don't know anyone who would complain if the blade came in a nice S30V. Okay, many people collect knives. So what? Can't they collect a knife with a great steel blade just as easily? I've known people who buy commemorative pistols: guns they never intend to fire. But to a man, they all want the gun to be capable of firing and they want it to be functional, tight, and they want the tolerances to be right on. And when they pay two thousand dollars plus, they ought to get it.

If some of these collector's pieces had S30V blades, many people might use them, just as Sebenza owners use their expensive knives. Call me a purist, but if the handle is going to be made of fine materials, a thing of beauty and fine craftsmanship, shouldn't the blade also be the finest blade money can buy? After all, S30V isn't prohibitively expensive. Buck and Spyderco both put it in some of their low-cost knives.

Fine steel has always been associated with fine knives, and to spend hundreds of dollars and get a 420 grade steel and a gorgeous hilt and handle is, to me, a bit incongruous. Most custom knife makers proceed from this same assumption; why shouldn't Buck?
 
Some things are better left unchanged....
All the various steels are a trade-off in something. For Buck, the 420HC works. Personally I think that the heat treating used is more important than the material.. Buck, along with Paul Bos have the heat treating down..

Buck still offers a great buy on a custom ordered knife with various steel and scale options. All at a VERY reasonable price.

The Buck 110 has stood the test of time and continues to serve many people very well, and I'm sure it will continue to do so for many years...

I guess as far as the collector knives that you are talking about, I understand your thoughts. Buck has a very loyal following. And for a lot of the serious Buck collectors, I think they look more at the whole package. The fact that they are limited production, offer different scale materials and the fact that they are made by a company that really cares about its customers.
JMHO
 
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The majority of buyers aren't custom knife colletors.
They aren't even Bladeforums knife knuts.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
The majority of buyers aren't custom knife colletors.
They aren't even Bladeforums knife knuts.
Click to expand...

+1, I had no idea about different kinds of steel before I joined here.

I thought it was one kind of steel, and that sharpening was something that was done after each use.


:foot:
 
Most people don't have the extra money we do. To afford fancy steels and over $100-$150 knives most people don't buy those knives. I bought a custom knife from a well known Maine knife maker. He told me in no uncertain terms, that he had never sold a custom knife to anyone in Maine. I didn't understand why. He advised me that the people up there thought $40-$50 was to much. He sold most of his knives to people from Mass. and NY.
 
It’s a valid question in my view.

I was brought up on reverence for BUCK knife. A very big deal.
I have since recommended and purchased Bucks for others.

One notable experience was a supervisor of mine. I bought him a Vanguard with 420HC, to replace a really poor food service knife he had. He is a Vet…that is a .Veterinarian. He used it daily, to do necropsy on Turkeys (up to 100 pounds each) and he used it HARD

It has all the characteristics of a good hunting knife. -
Sharp
Blade belly
Good dropped point
Guard
Nice rubber grippy handle esp with wet hands.
Nice blade length

He was used to crap, and now had something decent.
You should have seen him smile when he could shave off the head of the leg bones with that knife. (Internal bone structure indicates rickets)
That knife took a ton of abuse, cutting bones,ligaments, hitting gravel, or the stainless steel table depending on where he worked.

I love the style and would buy a dozen for myself or others, but I will never buy 420HC again.

Ease of sharpening?
It’s true its easy to sharpen…but if a better quality steel was available, it wouldn’t need to be sharpened as often.
I sharpened that knife on a weekly basis. True it didn’t chip often, but I thought it to be really soft.
(Actually he had 2 that I rotated through sharpening.)

There have been Huge advances in sharpening equipment. Diamond and ceramic stones are inexpensive, high quality and dare I say, the norm.
I have no trouble sharpening using modern stones and sharpeners on premium steel.

(If the expensive collectors are not meant to be used, make them of cheap mild steel.)

For me the primary purpose of a knife is to perform.
Especially on a working knife, I want to work reliability and not spend time working on it.
Why feild sharpen in the middle of an animal, when better steel will get you through ?
Spend your limited daylight on getting that Bambi back home

Price? Right now the vanguard is 50$ ish….we paid closer to $80….(Canada)
Price is different thing s to different people…$1000 rifle…20$ knife is often mentioned…

From my point of view…by recommending that knife, my reputation was on the line… and price was of much lower significance.

Knife companies have important traditions, but they have to keep up with tech innovation. They know it too. Look at the popularity of custom design collaborations, premium steels and new lock mechanisms..

Why not offer premium steel at different prices and see what sells over time? done now somewhat...

If Buck doesn’t offer other steels, they won’t be selling me any knives.

I have taken a real shine to D2…It’s my edc and I can’t be more pleased. 420HC is pretty poor in comparison to D2, let alone the new CPM’s.

420HC is OK quality at an OK price.
If Buck is content to let their reputation slip to be synonymous with OK rather than Greatness, then don’t change.
 
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