Why doesn't Spyderco offer tip up carry on the Military?

[nccole]

+1

I'm really am sympathetic to arguments for both configurations. But, for me, positioning of the pocket clip on the Millie is like #29 out of the 30 most important characteristics a knife needs/should have. If anything, I find the standard clip design less ideal (pretty large, because it surrounds the pivot) than its placement on the handle. I think people are really missing out if that is the only reason why they won't pick one up. More Millies for the rest of us.

I am fussy about clips[emoji6] My main point was I just choose to modify to suit me. If a Spydie does not have a wire clip, odds are I've changed it.

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[ejames13]

I feel like this comes up every month. I always say don't let tip down hold you back. The Military is one awesome knife. I modify mine to tip up. I also think Spyderco can do threaded inserts on the military to keep weight the same. They did it on the Caly Jr. It's more comfortable in hand, carries in front right pocket way better tip up, and who cares about .5 seconds on deployment out of your pocket to cut up a box. It's one handed either way.



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It's not necessarily about the extra time to deploy for me. It's about the extra work of having to move it around in my hand. Whereas with tip down the movement is minimal. Of course it's a very small inconvenience, but an inconvenience nonetheless.

 

[115Italian]

Military. Tip up. A wave feature, but smaller than the endura style.

 

[bdmicarta]

I agree with what several others have said: tip down carry is more natural on a big knife like the Military. If you draw it out of your pocket in tip up configuration you've got a long way to shimmy your hand to reach the thumb hole.

I carry my PM2 tip down for the same reason. They don't come that way from the factory by accident. Sal knows what he's doing.

I prefer them tip down because they are easier and faster to open that way. I have big hands but I cannot pull out the military and open it without doing magician tricks. I can do tip up on a 3" knife but anything larger and I have to go tip down. I frequently carry a Manix 2 but the only way I can open one-handed is to toss it up in the air and catch it in the correct position. For the people that say tip up is smoother or easier I want to hear an explanation of how they do this. I've read an awful lot of these threads but have yet to find an explanation of how tip up can be faster.

I've been carrying one-hand knives for 25 years or more. When I started most knives that weren't FRN came tip down. The only knives that were tip up were FRN knives because the pocket clips were molded on and they only way to do it without blocking the pivot was to make the tip up. That is how tip up got started.

I hear a lot of reasons people like tip up, some of which you can't really argue with, and people are entitled to their preferences. I carry clipped in my right front pocket but a lot of people carry different ways and some would work better tip up.

I buy the knives that I like and carry them despite the clip position. Right now my EDC rotation is about split evenly between tip up and tip down.

I have not read an explanation of why the Military doesn't have a tip up option when many other Spyderco knives do but I think it has to do with the short liners. It would be easy to make the knife work either way by putting inserts or a partial liner in the butt end but this would add a little cost.

 

[jsnell]

I have found this to be the case too. I waited a long time to buy a Military because of the tip-down configuration. Now that I own one, it makes total sense. I wouldn't carry it tip-up even if I could.

Same with me. I ended up getting a good deal on one, and made myself carry it. Now I get it. This is the only knife I carry tip-down btw.

 

[NJBillK]

I don't know... Maybe I have to try it with gloves on... But, that's what I don't like. I don't want to have to wear gloves to allow the clip to "hide" amongst the material to make the knife comfortable.

The manix 2 is one of my more comfortable production knives. But I also cannot carry it tip down due to the ergos being thrown off due to the clip placement.
-------
BDMicarta:
As far as how I personally draw my knife to avoid the "thumb hole shimmy" (yea, I made the term up, but it fits) is as follows.
-Thumb in pocket on body of knife, near center
-Butt of handle in "V" of palm
-Clip not really used for draw, but sometimes pressure is applied from ring or pinky finger
- Basically a pinch between butt of handle/palm "V" and thumb pad
- As knife is drawn, pinky and ring finger wrap butt of knife scales and draw as thumb naturally rests in spydie hole/on thumb stud.

Due to this naturally sought way if opening a knife, ergos play a Huge role in my knife choice.

 

[bdmicarta]

As far as how I personally draw my knife to avoid the "thumb hole shimmy"
- As knife is drawn, pinky and ring finger wrap butt of knife scales and draw as thumb naturally rests in spydie hole/on thumb stud.

I have long fingers but I can't do this with a knife longer than 3". I have tried positioning a Military in my pocket as if it is tip up and drawing it. My thumb ends up about 2" from the thumb hole. However I have seen people on youtube do this or at least they say they do this but it could be slight of hand. One person doing it was wearing pajamas which could explain it. My hands don't go into jeans pockets easily but maybe wearing pajamas you can put your hand into your pocket far enough to grab the bottom end of the knife. But since I don't wear pajamas outside of my house, I'm stuck with the difficulty of drawing from jeans pockets. My Manix 2 is significantly shorter than a Military but when I draw it my thumb is still well short of the thumb hole and I have to do the "shimmy".

The manix 2 is one of my more comfortable production knives. But I also cannot carry it tip down due to the ergos being thrown off due to the clip placement.

How do you get a clip mounted tip down on a Manix 2? They don't do this because it might get in the way of the BB lock. Actually the way that I operate the lock there might be room on the handle for a clip to mount up there but I'm not equipped to drill and tap something like that.

I often am in board shorts and carry IWB at 1 o'clock. I have nightmares about where that blade would go and what I might amputate if I sat down after it had partially opened.

Opening in your shorts tip-up isn't all that much more fun and neither way has any protection to keep the blade from opening. What you need is a sheath to clip your knife into, maybe even a sheath that you hang around your neck to hold the knife.

 

[Surfingringo]

Tip up option is a big deal to me for 2 reasons. First of all, I often like to use a lanyard, especially for use in my kayak, and tip down makes the lanyard hole kind of useless. Second, and more importantly, I often am in board shorts and carry IWB at 1 o'clock. I have nightmares about where that blade would go and what I might amputate if I sat down after it had partially opened.

I still have a couple of Millies and I love the design but I only carry them when I'm in jeans...which is almost never.

 

[Officer's Match]

Tried to like the Military in it's tip-down stock configuration. It didn't work for me. It MUST be tip up for me.

 

[Surfingringo]

Opening in your shorts tip-up isn't all that much more fun and neither way has any protection to keep the blade from opening. What you need is a sheath to clip your knife into, maybe even a sheath that you hang around your neck to hold the knife.

Nah, tip up in that position is a completely different game. I do it daily and the spine of the knife rides in the crease between belly and thigh. If a knife partially opens, the act of sitting down will naturally push the thigh against the spine and close the knife. Also, the body doesn't move much in relation to the tip of the knife when tip up in the waistband. When carrying tip down the nether regions can move several inches in relation to the knife blade. Enough to cause very serious damage.

I understand everyone's reasons for liking tip down carry on the Millie but the reasons some of us prefer tip up are also legitimate.

 

[Red House]

I've always carried tip up since the molded Clip-its of the Endura and continued carrying Endura 2's and 3's for years. I've been carrying that way for so long that drawing tip down is a fumble fingers affair of getting the knife out then trying to turn it around into the correct position in my hand. I have long fingers and thumbs so drawing tip up is one fast and natural motion, thumb in pocket and index finger outside pocket around the end of the clip, zip bam.

 

[Stumps]

I understand everyone has their own preference. My preference is tip up like I said earlier.
This short thread alone shows quite a few lost sales because of tip down configuration only.

 

[colubrid]

I find it easier and less steps to open a tip down knife. I always prefer to buy knives with tip down carry and refuse to buy some with tip up.

The CRK Sebenza is about the only knife I carry that is tip up...and Oh the Spyderco Salts as well

 

[The Deacon]

Over the years I've heard a number of theories as to why Spyderco does not offer tip up carry for the Military but can't recall ever reading a definitive answer from them. Still, whatever the reason, the bottom line is that there have been threads suggesting this option on both this forum and Spyderco's own forum pretty much since they opened and the Military is still tip down only.

 

[whp]

Short answer: the liners in the Military do not run the full length of the handle, so there is no steel to anchor tip-up clip screws. The curve of the clip would also be backward, meaning they would either have to change the clip configuration completely or include a second clip for tip-up carry in addition to having to redesign the liners. Lengthening the liners would add weight to a knife that was designed to be as light as possible.

Sal has said in the past the Military 2 will have four way clip option when it finally comes out, so there is hope for all you tip-up lovers. Frankly, every knife I've had come open in my pocket and cut me has been tip up, so I'll stick with tip down carry whenever possible.

I ve been lucky. I be never had a knife come open in my pocket. Not even the ones with weak detent. I like my Militaries and I m now edc ing my new Millie with a crs204p blade. But I wish it had a tip up option.

 

[Surfingringo]

By the way, thank you for the inserts Uxo2! I botched the job on one of the holes and accidentally drilled all the way through while countersinking. Epoxied that insert in and tightened everything up and it has been rock solid so far. I hope that the inserts and screws will remain stable but if they don't I'll just switch it back to tip down. For now the knife gets way more carry than it ever would have.

 

[Officer's Match]

This is the reason that if I ever buy a Military, it will be the titanium version. And a spare standard PM2-type clip.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Bdmicarta,

I'm with you as I can't make it work tip up clipped.
Aince I mostly go clipless, I pull it into hand by the lanyard and ended up my thumb is near the hole. If I go clipped, tip down is easier, just pinch, pull, palm it, my thumb is next to the hole.

I thought only small hand like me have problems with tip up clipped.
I watched Spyderco 'choosing your knife' introduction video by Michael Janich, and in the video it is emphasized tip up clipped being smoother.
Just don't work for me

Lance,

Glad you managed to convert to your liking. How's 52100 vs Fish?

 

[The Deacon]

This is the reason that if I ever buy a Military, it will be the titanium version. And a spare standard PM2-type clip.

No plans to do it, but I'd much prefer to drill 3 holes in G-10 sized to accept 2-56 blind nuts than to attempt to drill and tap three holes in titanium.

 

[Officer's Match]

No plans to do it, but I'd much prefer to drill 3 holes in G-10 sized to accept 2-56 blind nuts than to attempt to drill and tap three holes in titanium.

Yeah, I understand that, but I love ti anyway. Not so bad to do, and the end result is preferable to me.