Why I have decided to join the John McCain team

DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
5,594
John McCain believes that the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, individual Constitutional right that we have a sacred duty to protect. We have a responsibility to ensure that criminals who violate the law are prosecuted to the fullest, rather than restricting the rights of law abiding citizens. Gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime. Law abiding citizens should not be asked to give up their rights because of criminals - criminals who ignore gun control laws anyway.
Gun Manufacturer Liability

John McCain opposes backdoor attempts to restrict Second Amendment rights by holding gun manufacturers liable for crimes committed by third parties using a firearm, and has voted to protect gun manufacturers from such inappropriate liability aimed at bankrupting the entire gun industry.


"Neither justice nor domestic peace are served by holding the innocent responsible for the acts of the criminal."

-Senator John McCain




Assault Weapons

John McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans. Most recently he opposed an amendment to extend a ban on 19 specific firearms, and others with similar characteristics.

Importation of High Capacity Magazines

John McCain opposes bans on the importation of certain types of ammunition magazines and has voted against such limitations.

Gun Locks

John McCain believes that every firearms owner has a responsibility to learn how to safely use and store the firearm they have chosen, whether for target shooting, hunting, or personal protection. He has supported legislation requiring gun manufacturers to include gun safety devices such as trigger locks in product packaging.

Banning Ammunition

John McCain believes that banning ammunition is just another way to undermine Second Amendment rights. He voted against an amendment that would have banned many of the most commonly used hunting cartridges on the spurious grounds that they were "armor-piercing."

DC Personal Protection

As part of John McCain's defense of Second Amendment rights, he cosponsored legislation to lift a ban on the law abiding citizens of the District of Columbia from exercising their Constitutional right to bear arms.


Criminal Background Checks

John McCain supports instant criminal background checks to help prohibit criminals from buying firearms and has voted to ensure they are conducted thoroughly, efficiently, and without infringing on the rights of law abiding citizens.

Background Checks at Gun Shows

At a time when some were trying to shut down gun shows in the name of fighting crime, John McCain tried to preserve gun shows by standardizing sales procedures. Federal law requires licensed firearm sellers at gun shows to do an instant criminal background check on purchasers while private firearm sellers at gun shows do not have to conduct such a check. John McCain introduced legislation that would require an instant criminal background check for all sales at gun shows and believes that such checks must be conducted quickly to ensure that unnecessary delays do not effectively block transactions.

The Firearm Purchase Waiting Period

John McCain has opposed "waiting periods" for law abiding citizen's purchase of firearms.

The confiscation of firearms after an emergency

John McCain opposes the confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency. He voted in favor of an amendment sponsored by Senator David Vitter prohibiting such confiscation.

Stiffer Penalties for Criminals who use a Firearm in the Commission of a Crime

John McCain believes in strict, mandatory penalties for criminals who use a firearm in the commission of a crime or illegally possess a firearm. Enforcing the current laws on the books is the best way to deter crime.
 
I love the man!
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He's about the best one on guns although I'm against background checks for person to person sales at gun shows.

But the war and the economy are big issues for me, so I'm going for Obama or Nader. But on a lot of issues I'm with Mc Cain.

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But we aren't supposed to talk politics here anymore so I'll leave it at that:thumbup:
 
Well, I'm really just talking about 2nd amendment stuff and that is my determining issue.
Didn't want to talk about any other political issues.
 
hollowdweller said:
But we aren't supposed to talk politics here anymore so I'll leave it at that:thumbup:
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Good thinking. There's a whole Political Arena for this kind of topic. There's a Current Events forum for specific news items along these lines.

Bringing it into the Cantina will bring dissension and ill feeling among people with different partisan interests. We don't need that here.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Good thinking. There's a whole Political Arena for this kind of topic. There's a Current Events forum for specific news items along these lines.

Bringing it into the Cantina will bring dissension and ill feeling among people with different partisan interests. We don't need that here.
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True. We *had* that here. Past tense. Things are different now.

Thanks for the reminder. :)

Keno
 
I have been a one-issue voter on the 2nd Amendment my entire voting life. See my sig line. I frankly loathe Hitlery. I worked for Ron Paul in 1988 when he was running against the anti-gun Bush Sr. I have worked for 2 other Republican candidates locally, simply because they are pro-gun. I'm an Endowment Member of the NRA, the California Rifle & Pistol Assn., Gun Owners of America and Gun Owners of California, and have been a past member of the Second Amendment Foundation and JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership; I'm not Jewish.)

And yet (my friends and wife are incredulous, and truth be told I am myself), I am going to violate my commitment to the single most important personal issue I hold. I'm probably going to vote for the NRA F- rated Barack! A posturing empty suit against a great American and certified war hero!

Why? Iraq. McCain just doesn't get it. No one seems to get it. Forget the 4000 American dead, and all the enemies we're making and the destroyed Iraqi infrastructure. We are spending $17 Million every hour there. We now have a 10 TRILLION dollar debt. We just can't afford the $12 Billion a month anymore.

I'll even concede so as to avoid an argument that we have been totally justified in going and staying there. No problem. We just can't afford it any more!

As an aside, McCain also was for the Patriot Act, which is a Constitutional disaster, as well as drove McCain-Feingold finance reform, which is a horrible violation of the First Amendment, and stifles groups like the NRA. In fact he ignored pleas from the NRA when he drove that abomination through.

Bottom line, I will NEVER vote for a Clinton, and the two that are left are both going to hurt me. I think Barack will do less damage frankly. I'll just have to ignore what he does to the 2nd.

What a choice! :confused:

Norm

BTW just saw this:

Esav Benyamin said:
Good thinking. There's a whole Political Arena for this kind of topic. There's a Current Events forum for specific news items along these lines.

Bringing it into the Cantina will bring dissension and ill feeling among people with different partisan interests. We don't need that here.
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I don't want to generate any dissension here, so sorry should have seen this first. This is the Cantina though, and I know you guys won't hold it against me, and I'm sure that no bad feelings will be stirred up. I want to stress that normally I would be 100% in agreement with all of my friends here, even if secretly harboring a bit of concern. But man, the money we are spending! I'm scared for my kids future frankly, and not because of the war per se, but the $. If we were spending that kind of money doing something completely different, I would be just as concerned. If only McCain had some kind of withdrawal plan I'd be all over him. We'll see how it goes.
 
the dems in charge after ww2, aside from condemning thousands of cossack's who had surrendered to the west by returning them & their families forcibly to the soviets, who promptly butchered them, and surrendering most of europe to the soviet tyranny, presided over at least a half decade of armed german resistance, sabotage and terrorism similar to what is going on in iraq, but that was never publicized by the press. (how much did that cost in equivalent dollars, inc. having to station us troops in europe for over half a century?) they then promptly lead us into the korean 'police action' (which is still ongoing and costing us a fortune in korea) and later the vietnam 'police action' - which is fortuneatly over. oh, and ww2 was not officially over until just a few years ago when the berlin wall and iron curtain came down, and with german re-unification and membership of eastern europe in the EU, peace treaties were finally signed.

and this is why i would not vote for osama
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who is pulling his strings?

(i'd also not vote for hill-billy -aka hitlery)
 
I think Barack will do less damage
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Looking in from the outside, never thought it possible to prefer Clinton to anything - but the fact that Brzezinski ("convergence theory") is now teamed with Obama designates that particular candidate as being even more of a danger than the rest.... ie. the globalist establishment's chosen favourite, well into the "Tony Blair" class of politician and as murky as Merkel.
 
You could be right. I may change my mind. The prospect of voting for him appalls me.

But there will be even less freedom if the country is in total economic ruin and collapse that could take decades from which to recover, which recovery would be doubtful at all. I can't believe the $ that has been spent in the last several years. In 2001 the debt was 5 Trillion. It took 225 years to get there. In the next 7 years it doubled. Doubled!

I frankly can't believe _any_ viable Presidential candidate would consider continuing that level of spending, "no matter how long it takes."

What a cluster****!

Norm

Just one postscript: 7 years ago, there was a vague chance that if a miracle happened that the debt could be paid off over time. That can't ever happen now. I can do simple math, and it's undoable.

So maybe that's the answer, huh? Why postpone the inevitable? I could vote to keep my gun rights anyway and just end it sooner rather than later...?

BTW, just FYI: if a mechanism could be put in place, right now, conditional on no further interest on the debt, all interest accrual would cease, and no further spending at all, and the sum of $1000 could be applied every second of every hour of every day, 24/7/365, to the current debt, we _could_ pay it off. In 320 years.

Of course our current leaders will suspend the laws of finance, and stop spending even one penny immediately for the next 3 centuries.

Right.
 
I'd love to say something else. But I want to respect what Esav said.

But be sure and read my thread about going to see Barack last Thursday. It's in the Politics forum.
The line for the speech at UC. I started in the line at 9:05 about as far back as you can see in the pic. I got up to the steps by about 10. The speech was at 11 and people started showing up at 8am to get in line.

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Eating wings and talking politics and basketball with the customers after his speech in Charleston at Murads Kanawha City WV
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one of the normally unmentioned reasons for the failure of the western roman empire was the fiscal policies of public welfare for votes. citizens in rome had a right to free bread, and were frequently paid to vote - the 'donative' - and importing food stuffs and strateigic resources and raw materials from the productive regions of the empire and beyond was very expensive. candidates would make orative speaches promising the proverbial 'chicken in every pot' that we still get from the current crop. taxation, and the siphoning of it into officials pockets at every level meant that the poor slob at the middle of the pile bore the brunt of it, then eventually gave up, went on the public dole or sold himself into slavery to feed the family, or keep them out of slavery. emperors were also fond of confiscating the wealth of the nobility on flimsy charges - being a roman senator had it's risks as well as rewards - the flimsy charges usually were accompanied by a praetorian with instructions on 'allowing' the noble to commit seppuku. the wealth generating sections decayed, the poor became overwhelming, and the borders started leaking as rome could no longer afford the citizen-soldier base that had created it, they hired mercenaries who soon decided they'd take over.

did i not read something recently abut the US hiring troops from overseas? how much raw materials, food, etc. do we import into the US? how many productive tax=payers fall into the poverty level every year? parallels....

i think in some respects the choice is do you want to be armed or unarmed in future when (not if) the house of cards collapses...even if a miracle occurs and the dems stave it off for a while, you'll be unarmed when tshtf. the republicans may or may not provoke a faster fall -as the dems try to tell us - but at least you'll have a weapon in your hands when the barbarians come thru the gates.

p.s. - i'd suggest that the mods move this to the political forum if they think appropriate, so far it seems to be going along without too much rancor or ill feelings and sticking somewhat to 2nd amendment issues, but rulz is rulz.....
 
kronckew said:
one of the normally unmentioned reasons for the failure of the western roman empire was the fiscal policies of public welfare for votes. citizens in rome had a right to free bread, and were frequently paid to vote - the 'donative' - and importing food stuffs and strateigic resources and raw materials from the productive regions of the empire and beyond was very expensive. candidates would make orative speaches promising the proverbial 'chicken in every pot' that we still get from the current crop. taxation, and the siphoning of it into officials pockets at every level meant that the poor slob at the middle of the pile bore the brunt of it, then eventually gave up, went on the public dole or sold himself into slavery to feed the family, or keep them out of slavery. emperors were also fond of confiscating the wealth of the nobility on flimsy charges - being a roman senator had it's risks as well as rewards - the flimsy charges usually were accompanied by a praetorian with instructions on 'allowing' the noble to commit seppuku. the wealth generating sections decayed, the poor became overwhelming, and the borders started leaking as rome could no longer afford the citizen-soldier base that had created it, they hired mercenaries who soon decided they'd take over.

did i not read something recently abut the US hiring troops from overseas? how much raw materials, food, etc. do we import into the US? how many productive tax=payers fall into the poverty level every year? parallels....

i think in some respects the choice is do you want to be armed or unarmed in future when (not if) the house of cards collapses...even if a miracle occurs and the dems stave it off for a while, you'll be unarmed when tshtf. the republicans may or may not provoke a faster fall -as the dems try to tell us - but at least you'll have a weapon in your hands when the barbarians come thru the gates.

p.s. - i'd suggest that the mods move this to the political forum if they think appropriate, so far it seems to be going along without too much rancor or ill feelings and sticking somewhat to 2nd amendment issues, but rulz is rulz.....
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Excellent points and well said Kronckew. Bottom line is I'm going to do everything possible to stay armed, despite the intentions of the unilateral disarmament crowd. (No matter what party they say they're from!)

And thanks for the referral Hollow. :thumbup:
 
Just remember, however polite a Cantina discussion may remain, you never know how many others you've alienated or embittered. Before you get comfortable with making just one more careful political comment here, spend a while in the Political Arena and see what happens there.
 
I always find it interesting how Americans value their 2nd amendment so much, It is an issue here, but its way down the list!
 
Keith, this is a knife forum. Of course weapons policy is a high priority here. Most Americans don't pay perhaps enough attention to the Bill of Rights. You cannot judge our overall society by what you read here.

Not even by what you read on the toilet paper being handed around now. :rolleyes:
 
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