Why I probably won't buy another Randall...

B

Badzilla83

Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Messages
29
...And my problem with the collector mentality in general.
Years ago I purchased a standard Randall model #5 from direct from the company.
It served me as wonderful tool
over the years performing every task imaginable in the
great outdoors.
While hunting a couple of weeks ago the knife was
lost. I planned to replace the knife with one just
like it. I went to the website only to learn that the
wait would be close to 4yrs! I might need a new knife
before 2009!
Best I can tell the company seems to have shifted
it's focus to placating collectors. They make a good
product and it disheartens me to think that so many of
these fine tools are being locked away in safes, under
glass, or traded and sold like baseball cards rather
than being used for the purposes they were designed.
As evidence I submit that most of what I could find
for sale on the aftermarket were mint condition(never
carried, sharpened, or placed in sheath etc...) with
options that those of us who use knives as the tools
they are would never consider such as hard-to-sharpen
stainless blades, and pink and purple handle materials
that look like they belong on a Tiffany lamp.
I did find a website "Nordicknives.com" which offers
user grade Randalls in about a year but only at an
exorbant mark-up. I refuse to pay $335 for a $265
knife.
Knives are tools, not trophies. I realize that it is
not up to the maker to decide what their customers do with
the products. I also realize that a 4yr wait means
good business and I offer congratulations on their
sucess, and if I knew that every knife you sold was
used for its intended purpose I would have no
complaints. But I would like to see the company
reduce the number of collector type options and
concentrate on making knives more likely to be used.
If for no other reason to ensure that more usable,
affordable knives are in circulation for users like
me.
I really think that these knives are an oasis in a desert of factory made junk and cheap materials but I strongly disagree with the idea that a knife is more valuable as a horded display item than in the hands of someone who uses it while they're out enjoying life.
Just for the record I don't man any offense to anyone here, I just felt that this would be the best forum voice my opinion.
 
I remember drooling over them at Abercrombie & Fitch in Chicago... that was a lo--o-o-ng time ago. But you know, I think now there are more choices (and better blades) than ever before. Have fun looking. ;)
 
Interesting post, and welcome to Bladeforums!

Funny just today, I was looking at a model #5 in Blade magazine and it looked so practical, simple and elegant in design that I was interested in getting one. I live not to far from Nordic Knives and they will give you great service if you decide to buy from them, and unlike most, they do seem to reguarlly have Randall's in stock.

However, if you don't want to go the Randall route again there are more custom makers than ever and more options for the consumer. Gene Ingram comes to mind in that he makes a heck of a knife (and sheath) for the money. Also, you may well sidestep the collectibity issue this way (though not always). I know alot of of the custom makers that make the expensive knives make them to be used.
 
Because of collectors there are more choices and knives available today. If a company can not sell enough of what it sell it loses money, collectors help to prop up the knife market. I love a good hard working knife, but when I go out with in the city I like a fine knife that matches my cloths both in form and color. Red, Blue, Green, Silver, Black, hell I need more knives of different colors they don't have enough.

If Randall is stupid enough to have a waiting list of 4 years then they lose some business because they are not skilled enough to expand to the demand. To shift the stupidly of Randall business practices to collectors only shows you don't understand the market.

Less Collectors = less choices in knives and companies folding.
 
Badzilla - you hit the money on the head. I think if a company has a waiting period they ought to expand capacity, and that many companies cater to collectors. Randall Knives may even be deliberately controlling the number of knives they make in order to drive up values.

If you are willing to spend $265 on a hard use knife, a custom maker is the way to go.
 
I know perfectly well that there are several companies out there specializing in user grade cutlery ie Swamp Rat Knife Works, Strider etc... I also know that these companies occaisionally offer special additions and options for those who would like them. However they do not offer rainbow colored obsidian as a standard option either.
It is the user grade pieces that make up the bulk of the knives manufactured. Those who wish to collect them do so because they appreciate a quality, purpose driven tool for what it is.
I never said I had a personal problem with those who collect knives even though I do not understand it, and if you'll notice I touched on this point in my original post when I said that I just wished Randall would focus on user grade pieces. Even if collectors made up the bulk of purchases it would ensure that the knives were in circulation.
My problem is that Randall seems to focus their production on "show pieces" and that they refuse to expand to meet the obvious demand for their products. They need to decide whether they're making tools or toys.
 
Randalls ARE user grade. It's just that MANY people are hoarding them like jewels. Bo Randall would probably roll in his grave if he heard of this. Randall will not NOT handmake a knife. Don't blame the company, blame the collectors
This is why I like Mr Dozier. All of his stuff are priced reasonably and made to work and the people who collect them USE them.
 
Some of us have user Randalls
randall14.jpg

Parkerized, touched up and the grip was altered by me with a file. It's a great field knife.
 
Will P. said:
Badzilla - you hit the money on the head. I think if a company has a waiting period they ought to expand capacity, and that many companies cater to collectors. Randall Knives may even be deliberately controlling the number of knives they make in order to drive up values.
Click to expand...
Sorry Will, but I've got to disagree. I've been to Randall's shop and it's a small operation, and they like to keep it that way. I have no issues with them having a set production schedule, since they have no control over how their knives sell on the secondary market.

Badzilla83: There are plenty of Randall retailer out there that can cut your wait significantly. Plus, there's plenty of used Randalls on the market readily available. Sorry the times have changed for you. My first Randall was ordered back in 1982 and took 13 months to deliver. That's just not the case anymore.
 
Randall make their knives with the materials that the people purchasing them want. If you want a basic knife with stacked leather handle, they will be happy to make you one. You will still have to wait four years to get one directly from them, though.

The fact that Randalls are one of the most highly collected knives does definitely make them hard to get unless you are willing to pay a premium. That's not good for someone looking to just get themselves a good tool at a non inflated price, but it is something that is unlikely to change in the forseeable future.

It is doubtful that RMK will ramp up production. As was stated in an earlier post, they want to keep production low. This insures that they can get good money for their knives and that resale prices will also remain high.

I understand the reason for your rant, but don't expect things to change. Business is going very well for RMK, and unless that changes they are not going to change their marketing strategy.
 
You just had to get me interested in Randall didn't you! Now I need to order the Model 12 "Bear Bowie". Four year wait, oh well, it's only going to hang on a wall anyway.
 
I've had the honor if visiting the Randall shop and placing my order right there in the showroom. From what I can gather by peeking through the door, they've got only a few craftsman in a building only a couple of thousand square feet in the middle of a family orange orchard. With this, they've built and uphold the tradition of one of the most sought after knives in the world. Now, the factory can't dictate how their product is used (as well indicated by gun and car manufacturers) so you can't blame Randall Made Knives for some guy putting his knife in a safe. To do so would be naive and unreasonable. However, do know that every knife made by the shop is made for real world use.
 
I am at this time strictly a collector. I collect the best hard use knives in the world - Busse. At present I have around 40 of them. And they are almost all pristine, and are likely never to be used. And I have damn good reasons for this. I will not accept being denigrated as having a "collector's mentality." My purchases and my uses of these knives are just as valid as anyone else's.

I am an engineer by education and occupation and I appreciate the materials, design, and construction of these knives. But, most importantly, my present circumstances prevent me from the opportunity for knife use.
I am a retired, full time caregiver for my 23 year old daughter, who can neither walk nor speak due to brain-stem damage from a hit-an-run in 2002. I have little opportunity to participate in my former outdoor activities. So to maintain a link to these activities and to maintain my sanity, I collect Busse knives.

In case I am ever able to resume hunting and fishing, I have selected half a dozen of these knives and designated them as my future "users" for various purposes. But most of them will remain pristine. The psychological satisfaction that I get from these knives is just as valid as any other use I can imagine.
 
I nearly always buy users. Though I don't always use them.
A four year wait is aggravating but I would rather wait four years for a Randall than see a fine old knife company get in trouble financially by expanding and then possibly having to deal with overcapacity sometime in the future. I'm not saying that would happen but it does happen to companies all the time. That is one of the dangers a manufacturer faces when getting a big contract from Wal-Mart. They spend lots of money (usually borrowed) and hire lots more workers to manufacture more product for the retail chain. Everything is great. Making lots more money. Then Wal-Mart decides that the gewgaw that costs $1.58 to make should retail for $1.50 and demands that the manufacturer cut costs. Or they just suddenly decide to buy from another manufacturer. Layoffs and possible bankruptcy follow. Or the manufacturing moves to China.
Randall could easily expand, manufacture more knives, and make lots more money. But they seem to have chosen product (and stability) over profits. I have no problem with their choice. The simple fact is, if they manufacture more knives, even if they are still well made, they wouldn't be as desirable to many folk. I know that brings in the collector market. But the collector market helps keep Randall in business.
I am not an economist and I have no knowledge of Randall business plans so take my post with a grain of salt. Just my two cents. :)

James
 
I don't have anything against collectors, I have lots of knives that don't see use, my Randall #1's are in that group. What I don't collect are knives that can't or shouldn't be carried. All of my folders are potential EDC knives even if for whatever reason I choose to not carry them. Likewise, even the Randalls that don't see use could be carried, they don't because other knives are.

My 20 year old Randall 14 has seen use and will probably see more. My 19 year old RMK #5 (6", black micarta, button compass) has also seen use, but not as much. I've even got a 19 yo 5" model 10 (5") with a tiny ding in the blade from hitting something it shouldn't back in '89. I was using it in the kitchen and it hit the edge of the counter; needless to say, I'm not too fond of Randall's stainless. However, I love their O-1 for its ability to take and keep an edge.

Badzilla, you should probably look at Dozier's Pro Guide's Knife or something similar from AG Russell's Dozier page. You can order it Monday and have it by the end of the week. Dozier's D-2 is really good stuff but while you're at AG Russell, check out their Randall page. You may see something you like that you can have by the end of the week.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I just wanted to let you know that I've already chosen a new hunting knife. It was made by a gentelman named Dennis Riley from Arkansas.
http://www.rileycustomknives.com/images/MVC-025S3.JPG
Just for the record everyone; My main gripe was not about the 4yr wait, even though a shorter one would be nice.
There are lots and lots of Randalls out in the market available but most of these seem to have collector geared options that I either do not need or want.
 
I can understand that. The last Randall I bought was a leather handled Model 1 at a gunshow. Like new condition, same price as on the Randall website. There is usually a mark-up for instant gratification. Glad I bought mine back in the '80's. Hope your new knife serves you well.
 
If I could afford a $300 knife, I can assure you it would never be carried or used; I'd be terrified of losing it. Look what happened to your's. ;)

If you had been using a $50 Buck Vangard, you could have replaced it on your next trip to town...

Best Wishes, and good luck with the new knife!
-Bob
 
how does one determine if an option is a collectible trait or an option to make a knife more usable?

Seems that an egocentric attitude here is causing you to judge the things that you don't like, labeling them as a "collector" item and thereby useless to the general population.
 
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