Why is it okay to clone a traditional, but not clone a modern knife?

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OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
So anything Les de Asis created is fair game because he's dead and can't gain from it, right?



If you were looking for a case study on the psychology of niche groups, then you've done a great job. If you came here expecting logic and reason, I've got bad news for you...
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I personally think we should credit past designers and makers, and if you copy a design you should credit that original maker for using his design, and explain your homage piece when selling your knife.

I not only got a crash course in the psychology of niche interest groups, I got a refresher course in greek philosophy too.

I found this thread interesting to take part in.
 
Londinium Armoury said:
Well I'm a very introverted person, I don't really get emotionally involved with things like this, or even more serious things for that matter, I have very low levels of empathy and am quite an apathetic person naturally. I think there's contradictions in this subject, and I think the way to solve them for me to feel logically right in my stance is paying actual homage and not hiding sources.
Obviously I don't think the answer is to go in the other direction and start cloning every knife makers designs. I personally talk to lots of knife makers myself. I've exchanged words with some of the best knife makers alive today. I have been inspired by most of them to start making knives myself.
I also think to the future, and I think about things long term, that's why I'm remiding everybody that what we are doing right now, is copying dead makers designs, and we aren't even giving them their due credit. That will happen in the future and I don't like the thought of that.
Yeah I jokingly say (but i think it will actually happen even if im joking about it) people will clone the manix 2 and everyone will say it's fair game, in 200 years. That's not the worst part though, they will clone it and won't even give spyderco the credit for making it. They will just give it a pattern name, and sell it as their own creation.
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Companies aren't claiming traditional patterns as their own creations.
In 200 years all IP for the Manix will be long expired.
 
Londinium Armoury said:
I personally think we should credit past designers and makers, and if you copy a design you should credit that original maker for using his design, and explain your homage piece when selling your knife.

I not only got a crash course in the psychology of niche interest groups, I got a refresher course in greek philosophy too.

I found this thread interesting to take part in.
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This is less shitty.
 
r8shell said:
The fact that current producers of traditional knives call these knives by their traditional pattern names: "Barlow" "Trapper" "Stockman" "Congress", etc. is an acknowledgement that these are old and established designs.

If, hundreds of years from now, the names of original designers of our modern knives are lost in the mists of time, then I suppose the same sort of pattern copying and reproduction will be acceptable.

Some people don't care, but since we are discussing this on a knife aficionado website, don't be surprised if a lot of folks see a big difference between a historically traditional reproduction, and a blatant clone/copy of a contemporary cutler's work.
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That's a good point, I think that would also make a good thread, and maybe some of the people int he traditionals forum would know a lot of this einformation. It would be nice to find out where each design originated from, and the towns or locations where those designs first appear in history.
Like a database of traditional origins. I would start that thread, but I'm a little tired of typing and readng the screen right now, and I would like to do more research and bring a good starting portion of the information int he OP, instead of just asking others to "Name the origins of all of these knife patterns and models"
 
herisson said:
Shucks, he may be irritated by how you spelled his name. You sure he would be thrilled by "Aristotle" ? You trying to suggest I'm confounding Aristote and Socrates is actually cute. Aren't you drifting a bit on the arrogant side ? Drop it with Plato, just forget it. It's a load of crap.
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It was just a joke, lighten up.
 
danbot said:
Those traditional designs are not "stolen". Case etc. have never claimed to have invented those patterns. In 200 years it might be perfectly acceptable to manufacture an "old timey" Manix.
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It's amazing that this has to be explained, I don't know... what has the world come to ?
 
herisson said:
Philosopher quotes can be twisted in about whatever way you would like them to mean. According to your agenda. Sucks for that Aristotle guy. He was brilliant.
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I'll take your word for it. :D
 
Londinium Armoury said:
That's a good point, I think that would also make a good thread, and maybe some of the people int he traditionals forum would know a lot of this einformation. It would be nice to find out where each design originated from, and the towns or locations where those designs first appear in history.
Like a database of traditional origins. I would start that thread, but I'm a little tired of typing and readng the screen right now, and I would like to do more research and bring a good starting portion of the information int he OP, instead of just asking others to "Name the origins of all of these knife patterns and models"
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Before starting a thread, I'd advise using the search function in the Traditionals Forum. We've been discussing stuff like that for years.
 
Cool, I loled a lot, too. Because, you can't be serious, right ? Too bad, I'm the serious guy who never laughs.
 
danbot said:
Companies aren't claiming traditional patterns as their own creations.
In 200 years all IP for the Manix will be long expired.
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Trademarks don't have a set lifespan, they can continue indefinitely as long as they remain active. The oldest US trademark still in active use is 151 years old. So the Spyderco logo could still be covered 200 years from now.
 
r8shell said:
Before starting a thread, I'd advise using the search function in the Traditionals Forum. We've been discussing stuff like that for years.
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Thats a good idea, I do like and own traditionals, I carry a Boker Barlow most days in my 5th pocket. But I don't have a great deal of knowledge about slipjoints. I'll have a search and a read.
 
herisson said:
Cool, I loled a lot, too. Because, you can't be serious, right ? Too bad, I'm the serious guy who never laughs.
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Most of the things I have posted in the last 2-3 pages have not been serious. I also have a dry British sense of humour so I'm sorry if it doesn't come across well in text, I just assume people can read into my joking and serious posts and tell the difference.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
Trademarks don't have a set lifespan, they can continue indefinitely as long as they remain active. The oldest US trademark still in active use is 151 years old. So the Spyderco logo could still be covered 200 years from now.
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Their logo, yes that is true.
 
Londinium Armoury said:
I'm glad I am moving up in the shitty meter rating. Hey at least we can agree that knives are awesome, and I accept your apology for being so wrong.
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@K.O.D It's a joke, right ? You are are Okie Dokie in my book and I don't care much for Greek philosophers, while I have still some of them dwelling stealthily in my backyard. My feebles...
 
Londinium Armoury said:
Most of the things I have posted in the last 2-3 pages have not been serious. I also have a dry British sense of humour so I'm sorry if it doesn't come across well in text, I just assume people can read into my joking and serious posts and tell the difference.
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That's a pretty huge assumption for an online forum!
 
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