Why is lock failure even a topic?

For those who ridicule others who view lock strength/realiability as an important factor, please don't come cry or whine like a babby girl when you get yourself cut from a lock failure. Yeah I get it - that will never happen to you because all you do with your knives is opening envelopes and cutting cheese and fruits.

Plenty of people got hurt from a lock failure, myself included. In a way I did not feel that bad because the accident taught me a lesson about the weakness of super early lockup butter smooth frame lock so that for truly hard use tasks I will definitely pick knives with a different lock.
 
craytab said:
Axis, compression, spyderco lock back.

If you are really concerned about lock strength, you'll figure out how to carry a fixed blade.
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I find, for myself at least, I'm much more concerned with lock reliability that lock strength these days, including how easy it is to accidentally disengage said lock. I think the Compression Lock and BBL from Spyderco are likely my two favorite locks, because I've never had them fail to lock up when opening and it would be very difficult to accidentally disengage them. The ultimate strength of the lock isn't much of an issue as long as it's enough to withstand some jostling and an accidental tap on the spine.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I find, for myself at least, I'm much more concerned with lock reliability that lock strength these days, including how easy it is to accidentally disengage said lock. I think the Compression Lock and BBL from Spyderco are likely my two favorite locks, because I've never had them fail to lock up when opening and it would be very difficult to accidentally disengage them. The ultimate strength of the lock isn't much of an issue as long as it's enough to withstand some jostling and an accidental tap on the spine.
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Agreed on choosing something reliable without necessarily being focused on absolute strength. For me, just about anything well-executed that isn't a frame or liner lock is all I'd ever want. For me, Axis/CBB locks seem to be the most foolproof.
 
I have had a few nics and cuts over the years from locks failing. Negative pressures or jolt on the spine.

My brother had fo have surgery on a tendon in his thumb (severed) from the same brand and model of knife that had cut me 2x from lock failure). Similar situation piercing, and negative spine pressure.

I was opening a box of frozen meat. Poked the box from side, just below the top, to cut the box top off. Point made contact with frozen meat, and blink, cut finger. I was about 10 boxes in, with wet cold hands when this happened. The freezer i was pulling meat out of was -28 I believe. This was not a hard stab, or wild movement. The tip went in, and the instant it met resistance from the stacked frozen beef, the lock folded like magic.

Brother was piercing and cutting heavy rubber. We both stopped carying that same knife.

I have another liner lock that I was using, cutting water line hose in very tight quarters. I was stuffed up in a cubic hydraulic press, cutting at an awkward angle, and the knife suddenly cut through and forward. The point/ spine hit solid steel (the press weighed 40 tons) and the knife snicked closed on my finger) not a bad cut, but annoying while covered in sweat and 68 weight hydrollic oil, and powered stone grime. That knife lock never worked correctly again. Light thumb pressure would cause it to fail after that. I've had similar situations with both liner and frame lock, where light pressure would cause lock failure.

This is one of the machines (I don't own the copyright to these images) I worked on these for 5 years while completing undergrad degree).
z0WuKO0.jpg


ZsUnVe4.jpg



This is what they look like before being plumed, and having the anvils and back up anvils installed, as well as power, hydraulic and water lines. Cramped working on them.
Vx4NiPu.jpg


I have had multiple jobs that required curring in tight places. Farming (working on farm equipment in tight places), grainery, often tight and super dangerous places......often elevated 65 to 80 feet off the concrete on catwalks above the grain bins. Worked on a man lift 80' up in the rafters of an airplane hanger designed for jumbo jet storage.



If you ever whittle with a liner lock or frame lock, and use thumb pressure on the spine of the knife, or use your off hand thumb as an additional lever, you have pretty significant negative pressure on your lock.

I have a knife that unlocked this way, but did not cut me, because there was a notch of wood in the way.
 
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This is far more simply than you’re making it, at least for me. I’m paying for a product and said product has features that are supposed to act in a specific way. If I buy a ZT and it fails with a small thump on the back of the blade (a thump that wouldn’t likely close a slip joint, mind you), then my feelings are that I’m not getting what I paid for. After all, if you don’t actually care about the lock then why not just buy slip joints exclusively (I get that there’s other reasons to buy certain knives, don’t worry). A knife is made with a lock for a reason. If that lock barely holds more than a slippie, then it may as well be a slip joint. The only difference is that the blade free falls.
 
yeah, betcha i m not the only knife user
who cringes at the thought of getting cut.
locking blades are a preference with me.
and yeah some locks may fail due to
stress levels beyond its capabilities.
one needs to study the constuction of
the folder to suit the level of intended task.
i think its been said that liner locks are
something which one needs to use
with caution. this was addressed by some
manufacturers with secondary locks to
prevent liner locks from disengaging.
some axis type locks fail because the top area of the cutout slots on the liners in which the spring liaded locking bar slides across are structurally weaker than the bar itself.so yeah construction and placement
is paramount importance to the structural integrity of a locking system. it helps to use
the proper materials to hold things in place...
 
I don't get it at all.
I treat all knives like they have no lock ( the majority of mine don't ), and I can't recall ever having a knife close on me.
I believe a knife's lock should only come into play when it's time to put it away.

I swear some people act like they have no choice but to use their knife as a pick a probe a punch a pry-bar and a screwdriver.
 
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craytab said:
Nope.
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For our "humor challenged" members , the winking and laughing emojis indicate an attempt at humor and indicate content not to taken too seriously / literally . :rolleyes:

Cold Steel Tri-ad lock is IMO the strongest and most reliable , affordable lock available ...period . No contest !

I've substantial first hand , personal experience with hard using and abusing these locks over many years . I've even used them as throwing knives (not recommended ) with no ill effects except loosened pivots .

But nothing that folds and is practical and affordable can equal a fixed blade . Especially in resisting lateral force . There's a reason you won't see too many folders tested by lateral force on the lock .

I always prefer and recommend having available FIXED blades for the most critical hard dirty work / survival , etc. :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
I have a scar on a finger on my right hand because a non-locking knife chopped it down to the bone. Another knife, a Benchmade liner lock version of an Emerson design, folded up on me during an accidental spine whack while using it in tight quarters. My “normal” knife tasks sometimes includes using a knife for things others might not because it’s often the only tool I have. So, profuse bleeding and seeing my own bones without benefit of an X-ray has influenced what kinds of locks I trust, to what degrees I trust them, and what I’m willing to do with what’s at hand. That all probably sounds like a stupid exaggeration, but there it is. That said, I pretty much enjoy using folding knives with all kinds of different locks on them because I’m curious about each of them. For that matter, I also enjoy using my fixed blade knives, but find that folders are most convenient for me.
 
I had an instance where I was cutting blind inside a pallet containing a large piece of odd shaped equipment. It was strapped in with the green plastic banding under some cardboard and 50 layers of plastic wrap. Basically I decided it easiest to remove the internal straps and we could remove a lot in one shot all connected. I would cut put down the knife, remove strap, pick up knife, cut the next, etc. On the 4th strap it wouldn't cut, pushing harder and harder, then I pulled it out where I could see I had grabbed it wrong and was pushing on the spine instead of the cutting edge. It did NOT fail, but it would have been really bad. Yes it would have been my fault, but having the lock be solid was worth it. Getting rushed and distracted happens.
 
Mecha said:
If only someone would invent a folding knife with the strength of a fixed blade - a folding fixed blade!
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At one time CRKT advertised that their lock was as strong as a fixed blade. I have a couple folding Razels that this was said to be the case. Never really tested it and don't plan to. I use the Razels primarily for scraping where I need a sharp blade.
 
Comeuppance said:
It’s a fixation that affects many people, but why?
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Well I think it is bleedin' obvious iddnit . . .
when one is in a life and death, King and country, winner takes all, battle say . . . oh I don't know . . . errr . . . uuuuuuhhhhhmm . . . ok ok say . . . in the parking lot at a Walmart for the last parking spot you NEED a folding pocket knife to be able to hold up to say . . . blocking a blow from a pole axe etc. Oh yah, happens all the time, more often than one would think.

Wouldn't you feel silly if you were in such a battle and your folder . . . well . . . folded ? ! ? ! Realistically you wouldn't FEEL anything because you would be quite dead but what would your wife say ? You wouldn't want her to put on your grave stone :

Here Lies ______
The Blighter Who Never Could
Pick Out a Decent Folding Knife Lock
And
Met His Premature End Because Of It.​

Better not to take that chance. Better to pick out the finest folding knife lock known to man (even though you don't particularly like the knife and wouldn't pick it up if you saw it lying in the street if you hadn't already been told it has "thee lock to have" according to Cool Guy Knife Dude Monthly magazine)
. . . and then hang onto it like a Hawaliusian wind staunch in the midst of a butterfly storm . . . because you never know. No one ever really knows for sure.
 
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marrenmiller said:
I'll admit that I feel strongly about this topic. For me, it's a combination of factors.

1) That an expensive knife shouldn't have problems with lock geometry and design, or any other part of its execution, even if you don't intend to use it in a way where that matters. Full-stop. To me, this is akin to wanting your sports car to be capable of the performance you've paid for, or to wanting a knife with good steel to have a good heat treat. Some things should just be correctly done. What you're paying for should be what you get, period. It's fascinating to me that people care more about Benchmade shipping out knives with blades that aren't centered than about ZT shipping knives that don't have correct lock geometry (I've seen this first hand on my own ZTs, so drop the nonsense about how it's a few isolated instances).

2) Because locks don't matter until the one instance where they do, and then they're worth the knife's weight in gold. Locks allow for knives to make plunge cuts safer, they allow for you to pull a wedged knife out of cardboard/rubber/foam/plastic safer, they allow you to get away with being less attentive regarding how you hold the knife while moving around and working (like the example above of the spine hitting solid objects while in a warehouse/HVAC work/auto work/construction/home improvement situation, and in general are going to make it easier to operate a knife without being cut. I can still be smart about how I use a folding knife and not rely on the lock to be safe, but still have the lock as additional insurance, just like how I can carefully drive a car with a working seatbelt having never been in an accident and still feel strongly about having a working seatbelt in my car.

3) Because it looks like some knife makers don't understand what they're doing. As Michael Walker would probably tell you, frame and liner locks are more difficult to get right than most people acknowledge. It seems like a number of OEMs nowadays use unsafe lock geometry, poor lock designs, non-existent lockbar tension, and improper lock surface finishes/treatments on their blades and seem to not to realize it. Why should I assume that those OEMs only get the locks wrong on their knives if those same people are in charge of heat treat/fastener choices/blade grinding/handle work/general design?

This is an especially sensitive topic for me because I've had a disturbing number of expensive knives that would reveal lock issues with static hand pressure on the spine of the blade. I don't do spine strikes to test a lock, so if the lock shifts in my bare hands or the blade closes rather than seizing open like it's supposed to, that's a problem. I have not been cut with any of my knives due to failing locks; however, I also check every single knife the instant I get it and get rid of any that have weak locks, so read into that how you will.
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Wow! This makes a lot of sense to me. I think you have altered my opinion.:thumbsup:

Bigfattyt said:
I have had a few nics and cuts over the years from locks failing. Negative pressures or jolt on the spine.

My brother had fo have surgery on a tendon in his thumb (severed) from the same brand and model of knife that had cut me 2x from lock failure). Similar situation piercing, and negative spine pressure.

I was opening a box of frozen meat. Poked the box from side, just below the top, to cut the box top off. Point made contact with frozen meat, and blink, cut finger. I was about 10 boxes in, with wet cold hands when this happened. The freezer i was pulling meat out of was -28 I believe. This was not a hard stab, or wild movement. The tip went in, and the instant it met resistance from the stacked frozen beef, the lock folded like magic.

Brother was piercing and cutting heavy rubber. We both stopped carying that same knife.

I have another liner lock that I was using, cutting water line hose in very tight quarters. I was stuffed up in a cubic hydraulic press, cutting at an awkward angle, and the knife suddenly cut through and forward. The point/ spine hit solid steel (the press weighed 40 tons) and the knife snicked closed on my finger) not a bad cut, but annoying while covered in sweat and 68 weight hydrollic oil, and powered stone grime. That knife lock never worked correctly again. Light thumb pressure would cause it to fail after that. I've had similar situations with both liner and frame lock, where light pressure would cause lock failure.

This is one of the machines (I don't own the copyright to these images) I worked on these for 5 years while completing undergrad degree).
z0WuKO0.jpg


ZsUnVe4.jpg



This is what they look like before being plumed, and having the anvils and back up anvils installed, as well as power, hydraulic and water lines. Cramped working on them.
Vx4NiPu.jpg


I have had multiple jobs that required curring in tight places. Farming (working on farm equipment in tight places), grainery, often tight and super dangerous places......often elevated 65 to 80 feet off the concrete on catwalks above the grain bins. Worked on a man lift 80' up in the rafters of an airplane hanger designed for jumbo jet storage.



If you ever whittle with a liner lock or frame lock, and use thumb pressure on the spine of the knife, or use your off hand thumb as an additional lever, you have pretty significant negative pressure on your lock.

I have a knife that unlocked this way, but did not cut me, because there was a notch of wood in the way.
Click to expand...
Get a small fixed blade dude! Maybe a neck knife would be best for easy access while working on such things.
 
sharp_edge said:
Plenty of people got hurt from a lock failure, myself included.
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Sure it can still happen even with strong locks. I got enough pocket lint in a relatively new and little carried back lock that it didn't seat all the way. Fortunately I noticed it before I got hurt and picked the lock clean with a tooth pick.

Mostly if I'm cutting a rubber hose I put oil on the blade and just recently discovered that a spritz from a mister with alcohol in it works as well and is easier to clean up. I cut rubber all the time with my knives for situations where the results must look factory perfect.

Any time I have a knife in my hand I am 100 percent present and focused (hey it's good for you once in a while, the Zen Dudes even sit around and do it for "fun") and since I don't baton or make feather sticks I probably won't be yanking a blade out of a cut.

I know from first hand to the bone experience what happens when I let myself get distracted while using a knife (fixed blades included in that gory list) and it isn't just the lock that I have to worry about; not by a lorry load.

Probably best to treat ALL folders like slip joints and just have ones with locks because they are fun to fidget with rather than any serious anti folding device.
 
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